starchief

Scarlet Pimple and bughtmaster: no-one wants Yogi to fail. No-one is enjoying the terrible results*. A number of us feel (quite justifiably) that Hughes has been disappointing so far and his past record suggests this won't improve. As for suggestions, read over the posts where tactics have been discussed at length. It's just insulting to suggest only supporting Hughes is loyal, every bit as much as anyone suggesting those supporting Yogi are hoping the club nosedives out of the SPL because it's not their wee club anymore if ICT are on the brink of success. (*apart from maybe George as he's a Celtic supporter but I block his posts anyway)

We couldn't get the ball up to Andrew Shinnie. It would still be played around at the back by players that can't play around at the back. I also don't see we have any moral obligation to fulfill a contract in terms of keeping Hughes for the full term (or any length of time). We have an obligation to fulfill the TERMS of the contract. So, if we get rid, then we have to pay off whatever was agreed. I can't believe that would be very much as Hughes was struggling for a position and would have been on the back foot in terms of negotiating ability. Yogi has also stated he won't get the chance to bring in his own players so that's that shot down. I also don't see we need a player revolution, just a manager that can play to their strengths.

Of course he can be blamed. Not for the loss but the manner of losing. The number of goals. The undue pressure due to pretending Warren and Meekings are Dave Narey and Alan Hansen. If this was a one off, then no problem but its not. Definitely not.

Brilliant argument, Pimple. That virtually guarantees European qualification. Oh no wait...something's just come in. Vincent as a winger.

Or, indeed, make up their own mind based on the drop from clear second with games in hand to 5th, playing players out of position and not to the best of their ability. Something that mirrors Yogi's previous managerial appointments. Where is your evidence that the likes of Renegade, RiG, Kingsmills or DoofersDad, for instance, can't come to a conclusion based on what they see? As for me, I've blogged about Yogi's failings (that are already evident so soon) before he even came to ICT. That is simply an offensive statement. Honest, perhaps, but good??? As for deride anything Yogi does, I think you'll find he got supported, even by his critics, for switching from his disastrous total football to fast-paced wing-play at Ross County. John Hughes will succeed or fail off his own back. To think a few posters will change anything grants this forum too much power. Who is running scared? Which poster wants ICT to fail? Absolutely no-one. Because I think he will. I'd love to be proved wrong but, this time next year, I'm convinced we will be saying 'why did we ever take him on?' I'm quite happy not to keep saying this but the pro-Hughes camp keep posting, often in a quite nasty manner. If Brewster came back, I'd want him to succeed too. Doesn't mean that he will. And there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. If you say you want what is best for the club, why do you keep supporting a poor manager that will drag us down? Simple. You don't have the same opinion as me. The only difference is I don't mind you having an opinion, even though I'm convinced you're wrong.

So, you agree that Hughes should be sacked then, caleyboy?

What 'views' are we talking about? That some, including me, don't think that Hughes is the man for the job based on results and past history? I still hope I'm wrong. There is no conspiracy. I also don't expect Yogi to be sacked. Even if we're rock bottom at Xmas, I suspect the Board will strongly hesitate. Doesn't stop me (and everyone else) having a view if that's right or wrong. How many can honestly say that they weren't shouting for Brewster to go before the week that he did? It's not disloyal or a conspiracy, just an opinion. Sometimes right, sometimes wrong but we haven't been infiltrtated by a load of Hearts supporters that simply hate Hughes. I quite like the guy. Just not as a manager. Warren might well enjoy training and playing under Hughes. The question is: can Warren play total football? I just can't see it. Results also suggest he can't. Maybe he needs time to develop into an Alan Hansen but I doubt it. He looks more like a Terry Butcher or a John Hughes type of player to me. And that's no bad thing. It's some bizarre argument that those who are worried about Yogi are somehow football inepts. Most of the talk is about tactics, after all. Practical suggestions on how the team should be going forward have been put time and time again. It's not a case of knocking or being dismissive at all. If I was being cynical, I'd say that was being overlooked because it didn't fit with certain views...!!! Do I think ICT will improve with Hughes at the helm? No. Do you? Whatever the answer, I'm sure it's based upon what's best for the club, even if you disagree with me. And all views should be treated as such, instead of this vitriol.

Can we keep it at 222,223 then?

Is it? I wouldn't know. After all, I'm no comedy expert.

You may think you like your malts but like caleyboy says, you don't actually know what you ike unless you are a professional whisky taster. So let's not think we know what whisky tastes like and leave it to the professionals to tell us what we like.

Doesn't assuage the basic question though. As for the EU, it has strayed so far from it's original goals, I'd be hard pressed to state an in/out preference but that's perhaps for another time.

Who should be relegated ? Hearts and...don't think Partick have anything special enough. Who will it be ? Hearts only. Partick still better than the Division 1. If it was up to you ? Prefer Ross County to stay up for the derby and St Mirren for old times sake. Definitely Hibs though. Can't think why.... Who should be promoted ? Prefer Falkirk as it's just up the road. Who will it be ? Dundee If I was up to you ? Yep, Falkirk for the same reason.

Good article but... How does Scotland get rid of a UK government? Answer: it can't. How does Inverness get rid of an independent Scotland government? Answer: it can't. If the whole of Scotland votes Labour, they still won't be able to outpower the rest of the UK. If the whole of the north votes Lib Dem, they still won't be able to outpower the Central Belt. It's the same argument just at different levels. The question is: at what level do you think government works best? European? UK? Scotland? Regional? For me, it's a movable feast. 10 years ago, I would have argued for greater EU integration. I now see the EU has moved far from their federal model to an anti-democratic centralised model, where banks can fine democratically-elected governments. So for now, I see a strong UK as being able to pull back from this but an independent Scotland forced into accepting a more centralised EU. With more democracy back in the EU (as was the dream previously), I'd quite happily consider independence. So, for me, not now. I know someone will talk about how someone said 'not this time' in the 70s and lived to regret it but that's what politics is. Unless you are 'independence at any price' then it is a matter of timing.

Well Chief, if you think a wee club like ICT, with our limited resources and geographical position, can attract a 'great' manager you are indeed deluded. Yes we could maybe have attracted Hartley but there is no way of knowing if he would have been a 'fit' for ICT. Yet again, we get we should accept Yogi because we can't get Mourinho. Please see my point: "even the best we could have" - that doesn't mean a great manager. See the New Manager thread for reasonable affordable names. Given that I was the one that first named Butcher on this forum as a potential manager before he joined, it doesn't count for me. No need to be so personal or angry though. All I'm doing is disagreeing with you that Hughes is a long-term solution. I'm sure we both want what's best for ICT. You have one view, I have the other. I'll be happy to be wrong with Hughes. But, when he leaves, I also think we will be shouting "why did we even take him on?" I don't dislike the guy, I was a fan of his style of play as a player (which definitely wasn't passing from the back), I wrote an article about how he could take Hibs to be the new third force in football but I also see I was wrong there and his style of football was neither entertaining nor successful. Hopefully, I'm wrong again. I just don't think I am and it will cause us damage short, medium and long-term.

One swallow doesn't make a summer. absent friend: you seemed to think all the criticism was because of one lost match in the cup. It's not. Nor is it about one derby. Yogi deserves his moment but that doesn't make him a great manager. Or even the best we could have. Hughes has to 'educate' himself from this win. If he learns from this, fantastic. Everyone's happy. I continue to have my severe doubts. But why not let the team and manager have their moment without this 'they one a single match so it proves Yogi is the new Fergie' argument?

I've been a big fan of Carey for a while and thought he did well yesterday too. Thing is though, we've no need for another left-back.

Ref's hilarious. He's like a schoolboy reffing for the first time.

A winger scores and we work their keeper more in 45 mins than in the last 5 games of 'total football'. He'd better not change next week!

Well done Robbo. "It's not about the players, it's about educating yourself about the club and what makes the players tick"

Think Hughes knows how much pressure he is under, hence the switch back to 4-2-3-1. Bet next time, suddenly, it's changed back. Thing is, you can't just switch results and confidence. Nevertheless, we have a good team. Play the right formation and we should do it.

Like everyone else, I'd go for a 4-2-3-1 but, let's just try to select a 4-1-4-1 system at gunpoint. Esson in goal probably. I'd still value Raven as he can pass as well as defend. We have little choice in central defence. None can pass. Maybe Meekings is the best but you can't drop Warren. Tremarco out left to get Shinnie in midfield. I don't see that Draper fits this system at all, despite being one of our best players. Tansey would be the main man to get things started. I'd drop Vincent back for passing link ups and have Shinnie in there for some pass and moves (not what he's great at but better than everyone else). Ross would be in as he is pretty adaptable and can play a sweet short pass, or else one of our wingers would have to shift to being a central mid. I'm really not sure who the extra body would be. Actually, it would probably be Raven , meaning Meekings switches to RB. We only have one striker. So: Esson Meekings Devine Warren Tremarco Tansey Raven Vincent Shinnie Ross McKay Now, is that more promising than: Brill Raven Warren Meekings Shinnie Tansey Draper Watkins Christie Doran McKay I think not.

Here's a reason: players. The only player we have that can pass a ball is Tansey. But he ain't quick. We therefore need to get rid of Brill, Esson, Warren, Meekings, Draper, Foran, McKay and Vincent. Doran, Williams and Watkins have to change to go more inward. we then need to bring in a whole load of players for free and on low wages that can pass and move quickly, using intelligence and guile to undo the opposition. We have no chance of getting those kind of players on our budget. We don't have a single player on our books that suita that style. Danny Lennon also wants to play that way but has a little more money. How many of his players would improve ICT? Or should we stick with the players and system that got us to 2nd place with games in hand? Can we get a poll on this thread? A simple Yes or No, that allows changes so we can see if results go up or down.

Doubt he'd get it. (I'm not even joking)

Why Christie bottom? Got us to 7th in the table, with a points total above 4th, then 8th in his second. That's got to be better than Baltacha and Brewster 2 at least.

1. Pele: built the squad. He was our Bill Shankly. Didn't achieve as much at the top (obviously) but we were still playing 'his team' for years in the SPL. 2. Butcher: a serious challenge for European football via the League? Not something I thought ICT could do. 3. Christie: Remember when the top six was just a pipe dream? Charlie got us believing. 4. Robbo: more the mystery-man. Got us to the SPL but would he have got us higher? Impossible to know. 5. Brewster (1st): Good eye for a player. Strong team and played that way. I can't decided between Hughes, Baltacha and Brewster (2nd). All of them have been much poorer than the team deserved.