CaleyD

If that's available as an each way bet then I'll take £100 on it

I'm in the process of investigating legitimate means for providing commentary to overseas fans....which would be provided via the official website. Can't promise anything for this season, but one way or another we will have something in place properly for next season.

Especially when you can get the same treatment at home for free!!!!

It's not an "alternative option"....it's the only option if we want to have a club to support in the future. As I said, what we're doing now is no longer working, we couldn't bring in our core support to a match which some people still believe is a "High Profile" game....they are kidding themselves. Give me one good reason why she would continue down the same path? What you are effectively saying is that the players are more important than the fans....and that is the root of everything that is wrong with the game right now. Lower League Football and a Club to Support in the Future...or SPL Football for a couple of years and then nothing...I know which I prefer. And let's face it, we won't be the only ones forced into making that decision...some will have the balls to make the unpopular but correct decision and the rest will disappear into a financial black hole. Let's not be like sheep and follow them in!!!

You're totally missing the point Charles. There's more than one way to balance the books and if a club cannot keep prices at a level which is affordable and sustains the fan base then it is a sign that they are spending too much. The answer to that is to trim costs, not increase ticket prices. Football seems to be caught up in a dangerous mindset that we all have to be doing what everyone else does....but what everyone is doing is not sustainable. Someone at some point is going to have to break with tradition and say "you know what, having a club here for the future is more important than anything else". Instead we live in some fantasy world where everyone believes that if we just keep doing what we are doing then by some miracle it will all work itself out. It's like being trapped in that Homer Simpson ad where the beer gets caught on the power lines and he hangs there all day and night just grabbing the beer and expecting not to get shocked. All together now..... :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Clubs need to ask themselves why they exist....and operate accordingly. A club which doesn't operate for the fans is no club at all and will quickly cease to exist....not because the fans do not want it to exist, but because it will eventually drive itself into a situation from where it cannot recover. Granted, some very fine balancing needs to be done in terms of generating enough revenue to sustain the club and doing so in a manner which is affordable to the fans, but it's a sure sign that the balance is wrong when the fans stop turning up....and I believe we are witnessing just that at ICT. I took little pleasure in predicting the poor turnout by ICT fans on Saturday, but the moment the prices were announced it was fate accompli. Is it acceptable that ICT should be seen as existing to provide entertainment for the opposition and anything gained from home fans is a bonus? If we repeat the errors of last Saturday, or continue to accept a situation whereby the games authorities can force that upon us, then that is exactly what we will become....shortly before the club is driven to the wall. All the book balancing in the world will mean nothing then.

Home or away it doesn't matter....the club have to give up half the ticket value to the opposition anyway. Not saying my price for the add-on is correct, but as with Season Tickets the club need to look at the value of getting that money in early and offset that against the potential loss of us getting 4 cup games....in the exact same way as they have to calculate the discount they give per match on a Season Ticket. 4 cup games and we're starting to make a bit of money from them, so we can happily offset the cost of the gamble, fewer and there's a good chance they've actually made a few quid extra. I actually don't think our season ticket prices are too bad, but I think the system could be tweaked a bit to "reward" ST holders...giving someone 50% off a matchday ticket is not going to double the size of the crowd, but some kind of loyalty bonus and/or added value on a ST could easily increase numbers sufficiently to cover the cost of the discount...and more. Cup match prices are a totally different discussion. They are not guaranteed income and every £ made should be seen as "extra" revenue....this (should) give the club scope to find a more sensible balance between making a few quid and not turning people off by over-charging. It doesn't really matter what you and I think is too much, a crowd of 5743 which we would have been lucky to have contributed 2400 ICT fans too AT HOME shows that the prices was too high. How far do you let that situation go before you realise it's ridiculous? 2000 home fans, 1000, 500? I fully appreciate the need to make money, but somewhere along the way people seem to have forgotten that ICT exists for the ICT fans and it is them who should come first.....in EVERY decision. Am I the only one who finds it a little worrying that our own fans are priced out of a game on the basis that if our fans don't buy tickets then the opposition will??? Is that mindset not tantamount to threatening/bribing our own fans? Do people really believe that this kind of attitude will bring more fans in for other games, and not actually just drive them away in the long term? Craig Whyte/Rangers are being slated for mortgaging future season tickets so they can have cash in the bank now, are we not taking the same gamble by over-reaching on cup ticket prices? Yeah, we might have maximised the income from that one game....but at what cost to future income if it turns fans away?

I think the atmosphere would start to happen if we could start increasing crowds....you certainly can't have one without the other. Yeah, you can have 30 guys/gals in one area being vocal, but that doesn't constitute an "atmosphere". I'm no stranger to handling "reserved" crowds of people (although not normally thousands of them). I spent over 10 years as a mobile DJ (as opposed to over 35 years as DJ) and never once failed to get a crowd dancing. You need to have things that engage with the fans and encourages them to get involved. I tried that with getting out pitch side and think I had some success...it was just unfortunate that the plan was cut short!!! Not everyone liked what I did, I was called a "dick" and all kinds of other things on several occasions....but I didn't give two hoots. Fans need to take the same attitude in the stands as well. Forget about these people who might "give you a look for making a noise" and just enjoy the game the way you want to enjoy it. Get a bit of banter going between the sections/stands to see who can make the most noise, encourage people to make banners and see who comes up with the funniest/best, have a wear your pants outside your trousers day....anything that gets a laugh and encourages people to lose a few of the inhibitions. Then, toss a few freebies into the areas that come out on top in terms of making a noise or whatever. Freebies don't need to be expensive....you could even get them sponsored so someone else provides clap sticks/noise makers, hats, inflatables etc with their name on. Pre Match and Half Time entertainment also needs to be engaging....and preferably noisy so people don't have the chance to stand around moaning about the game or the weather....take their mind off that by making them laugh, smile, tap their feet...anything. Crowd participation by way of HT competitions on the park where the people out there aren't representing themselves, they are representing their section....points totalled up over the season and everyone in the winning section gets a free scarf/t-shirt...again anything that is relevant and will identify them as being part of that "team" who worked all season to win it. Obviously the bigger the crowds the easier these things become, until we grow the crowds we need to condense what we have. To do that, close of sections of the stands unless the capacity is needed....get everyone sitting close. Ok, so you are going to have a few people who won't like that and prefer to sit in silence, but I believe that deep down these people want to enjoy themselves too....and if they don't and are more intent on spoiling it for others then we're not going to miss them so "buh bye"....we'll soon replace them with people who are there to get a bit of craic while enjoying the football or who take enjoyment in seeing others having some fun and are happy to have it going on around them, even if it's not for them. So yeah, I guess I do have a few ideas

My initial thoughts on that were....how do you know how many cup matches we'll have, and it could end up either costing the fan or costing the club. However, I guess that's part of the gamble and it could also be done on the basis of giving people 4 cup game vouchers in season ticket books which can be used for any round....charge £50(?) for the add-on. Up to fans then if they want to risk using the voucher for an early round CIS Cup game costing £10 or chance us getting a wee run in the Scottish Cup and saving it for a game that might cost £20 (or more). Any unused vouchers as a result of us not having had 4 cup games can be used to get a £5 rebate off the next years Season Ticket. So yeah, it might just be worth exploring.

In terms of prices....if it was me I would rip up the book on season ticket pricing and start again. 1. All children under 12 get free entry to games. 2. Up to age of 16 they pay an amount that would be considered affordable from "Pocket Money". 3. Full time education is the next price level. 4. Adult pricing is the next level 5. OAP Concession (although not as cheap as the FT Education price). Over and above that I would offer Loyalty Discounts. A bit like a No Claims Bonus insurance scheme.....so second year you get a 5% doscount, third year you get a 10% discount and so long as you keep renewing you keep the discount. I would also introduce a scheme which allowed people to build up credits/bonus points by helping the club with any projects, maintenance or whatever....things where by assisting you help save the club a bit of cash or add value. These credits can then be used to offset the cost of a season ticket. Local business could be encouraged to donate to a scheme that offered free or subsidised season tickets to people who genuinely can't afford to come to matches but would like to. Here's the most radical of ideas, but one I am sure Dougal will appreciate...Season Ticket holders at other SPL clubs can come and trade their Season Ticket Book in as part payment for an ICT one at any point during the season. Obviously some of these ideas would need some thought and planning...and there's maybe other ideas out there that might be better. We all know that what's there isn't working and we'll never know if other schemes would work if we don't try them (properly).

I am in a minority....but that's because I can honestly say that I have never followed or supported any team other than Caley/ICT. Can you say the same? (doesn't matter to me, just curious). I doubt there's many of my age/generation (or older) who could say the same. Most of my mates all supported other SPL teams prior to ICT coming in to existence, but I don't see the need, or benefit, in questioning their support of ICT. I know others who have started coming along to ICT games more recently who still have a "soft spot" for other SPL teams, but they want their kids to grow up supporting the local team. In fact, I probably know more ICT fans who had/have "other teams" than ones who didn't/don't....maybe therein lies a bit of our problem when it comes to growing the support, and if it is a factor than it's one we need to work on overcoming and you can't overcomes such things by immediately discounting the majority of your target market.

You crack me up....complaining about lack of support from the local area in one thread and hoping that we don't convert people to the cause and bring them in on an another!!!

Sorry Caley D I think you misunderstood. I meant that the total value of the TV cash would be 10% of of the current TV deal. In other words ICT may receive a larger proportion of a much smaller pie. The net result would be reduced TV cash for all clubs with the possible exception of Celtic. In saying that, while there would be some short term pain, I think it would result in a much better, competitive league in the long term. Nah, I understood, was just being a little facetious because the suggestion that an SPL without a dominant Rangers (and Celtic) would be worth 10% of it's current value is a tad ridiculous.

I've seen 20 or 30 fans in the away end create a better atmosphere than us !! so its not just about getting numbers through the gate ! If you focus solely on the "atmosphere" issue, then yes....but that's why I said "No one thing". However, to answer your point.....No club can survive on the income from 20 or 30 vocal fans, and like it or not those who choose to sit and enjoy the game in a more restrained manner are every bit as important to the existence of ICT as you are....so having a pop at these people will only serve to drive them away and make the situation worse.

No one thing is going to bring about an improvement. For example, you can only get an atmosphere if you get people into the stadium, and you can only get people in to the stadium by making it affordable and doing things to attract them (not all financial). We can all sit here and point the finger of blame at the fans, the club, they city, the SPL or who/whatever....but until they parties start working together and for the mutual benefit of all fans, all clubs and the game in general then we're just pissing in the wind.

I'd happily take a deal that saw us get 10% of the TV money....it's more than we get now!!!!

Do you think the "authorities" would appreciate the humour in a banner that said.... "LENNON LIKES TO HIT THE BOTTLE"

Sorted that out for you. Three things.... First off, how do we know it's a "windfall" and that X amount from cups was not already written in to the budget for the season? Secondly, there was a massive hole in our accounts that was filled by the sale of the Social Club and "investment" from Directors....unless other income has increased or spending has been reduced by £300k+ then money from the cup will be needed elsewhere just to make the books balance. Third thing, if we hope to get some return on our investment then we would need to offer him a 2 year extension....whilst it's possible a good cup run might give us a little bit more than budgeted, how do we know we will do the same next season? and if we don't and Jonny stays, then where do we find the money to fund the increased wages? If, and it's a big if, there's available/surplus funds to allow us to pay an enhanced deal and Butcher thinks it would be money well spent them I am sure it will happen.... not just for Hayes, but for other players as well.

Is Hayes worth more money? Yes. Can we afford to pay him more money? No

Or if you're Neil Lennon then you ignore all that and just kick-off whenever and in whichever way you like!!!

What if it's postponed and then a draw on the replay date?

I believe the (potential) investment is a bit more involved than just throwing some cash into the club and discussions are still ongoing. Can't argue with your assessment of the clubs progress (or lack thereof), but not convinced that the training facilities etc we use are the cause of the injury glut. Most of our injuries have been caused by heavy challenges and stuff during games and some of them have been things like shoulder injuries and stuff which are just freak scenarios. I actually believe that pampering players too much can cause more problems than expecting them to rough it a little. Kenny Cameron is club Chairman, and as far a I am aware he is not a land developer....even if he was I don't think it right to just expect him or someone else to just hand over land. Given how much ICT have done to put Inverness on the map, it might be more appropriate to suggest that the City themselves do something to assist the club with a better training surface that's slightly closer to home and has some basic facilities.

Yeah, income from TV deals, sponsors etc will reduce...to begin with, but when you consider the fact that the OF take the lions share at the moment and that they are less likely to be able to command that if/when Rangers goes bust, then I don't see the rest of the teams losing out on as much as some people might think. Half the money we get now, but more evenly distributed may actually not be such a bad trade off. Also, without the duopoly which dictates that they want 4 (league) fixtures a season against each other, then the powers that be might be more willing to look at extending the size of the league which would make it more entertaining, which I reckon would start putting more bums on seats and help offset some of what might be lost. Sometimes, whether by fate or design, you need to go backwards to find another path that will take you further forwards.

Booked in for my Jabs on Monday.....so will be safe for me to head down for this one.

Only just realised today that they have borrowed (and it would seem already spent/squandered) £24 Million against future Season Ticket sales....no wonder Whyte is delaying publishing the accounts and holding an AGM!!! That must put them in excess of £80 Million in debt and no doubt they're racking up other debts elsewhere all the while as well.