CaleyD

Those who are members of the Kingsmills Club are as "regular" as the rest, but they pay extra for what they get.....all you have to do is pay to join and you will get the same. I'm not defending any poor service/standards that may exists at the Kiosks, that is something which needs to be addressed and whilst you'll never get true "value for money" when it comes to food at ANY stadium, it does have to be kept within the realms of reality. But to try and spin a case that perpetuates a myth that there's a group of people getting more than everyone else simply by virtue of status or class is off of the mark. Such a situation may have existed at one point in time, but it doesn't exist today.

Nope.....certainly not available from the kiosks, although they have been available in the Kingsmills Club, who are still using the MacDougall and Hastie pies, of which the Steak and Gravy Pie was voted best in the UK. Why didn't they sell them all round the ground? Because the catering contracts for the Kingsmills Club and Kiosks were (and still are) separate and done by different companies. Why? Because the demands and requirements for each are different.

For a start, it has nothing to do with any "Class Divide" or anyone thinking they are any better than anyone else. You ramble on about pies and hospitality as if they actually matter in the grand scheme of things....and the fact that the club have had little by way of hospitality running this season, having moved to the Kingsmills Club setup instead would blow that argument right out of the water from the get go. Not to mention that the club would argue, quite validly, that they have acted to improve the catering and that it cannot be judged on a single week and that they moved to do this due to the fact the listened to the fans. Aside from anything else, the club would not be where it is, or have lasted as long as it has without the corporate side of things. Really, when you get right down to it, ICT is well and truly in the doodoo and I'm pretty much of the opinion that it's gone so far the wrong way that it's going to take a major disaster before we get to a point where we can start building again....only one man has the power to stop that happening and I don't hold out much hope of him doing what's necessary. ICT will be in administration within 12 months....18 at most, and there's not a single thing any of us can do to prevent it. The bank balance has disappeared, debts will be mounting and expenditure is outstripping income on just about every front. All the nice pies, cheap tickets and pleasant exchange of questions and answers in the world isn't going to bring this club back into line. So why do these things? Why waste our time pursuing points and changes that will make no difference to my predicted fate?...because we have to show what works, we have to be prepared for when the chit really does hit the fan so we know how best to rebuild. I've resigned myself to the inevitable, but that doesn't mean I won't stop doing anything I can do to increase the support and to try and keep the support we have. God knows we're going to need every person and every penny we can muster in the not too distant future and fans need to start coming together now because we might be on the brink of losing a battle, but we can and will still win the war if all stick together. That might all sound very dramatic and a bit theatrical...mock me if you will, but please remember to bookmark the post for future reference.

I agree with the point your making about divide between club and fans, it's a point I have made myself for many years and one which I probably borne witness/been victim too on more occasions than most. However you are attacking it on all the wrong points and with inaccurate facts...and that does little to help matters.

The last I heard on this, ICT had not yet managed to arrange a meeting with Motherwell to discuss the prices.

Nope.....certainly not available from the kiosks, although they have been available in the Kingsmills Club, who are still using the MacDougall and Hastie pies, of which the Steak and Gravy Pie was voted best in the UK.

I'm afraid you lost me on that one.

Thats because both mine and tony's drums are knackered and plus we have no beaters! No excuse. As I've told you guys before, if you need help with replacing drum skins and beaters etc. then let me know what you need and I'll see what I can do!!! Im not clued up on drums so i dont know what im asking for. We need 4 beaters and 2 drum skins for 2 medium sized drums? :D OK, so I'll make this as easy as possible for you. If you can arrange to get the drums dropped off at the Stadium, and let me know when you have, then I will take them, measure them, and arrange to get new skins for them and supply suitable drumsticks/beater....and it will cost you guys not a penny. The only thing I ask in return is that you make full use of them at home games. If you could get that done in the next week or so, then I would endeavour to have them back to you and ready to use for the Boxing Day game. Ill do one better. The Drums NEVER leave the stadium. Section G behind the rail. [sarcastic disbelief]Your welcome [/sarcastic disbelief] :D

Not sure if it was a result of the fog transmitting/containing the sound, but I did make comment that I thought the crowd were generally more vocal yesterday. Normally I can barely hear a thing from the announcers box, but I was hearing clear...and more consistent...support being generated for the team yesterday. Two things I fail to understand about our support and I don't know if it's unique to ICT, but....I spoke to people yesterday who were going around telling people not to waste their time going to the game as they wouldn't see anything and it would probably be called off....and....we had the chants referred to above aimed at one of our own players. What I want to know is, how do people think these things help the players/club in any way whatsoever? Encouraging lower crowds (and then berating attendances) and shouting stuff at players which will only serve to distract them from the job in hand. What kind of "support" is that?

Thats because both mine and tony's drums are knackered and plus we have no beaters! No excuse. As I've told you guys before, if you need help with replacing drum skins and beaters etc. then let me know what you need and I'll see what I can do!!! Im not clued up on drums so i dont know what im asking for. We need 4 beaters and 2 drum skins for 2 medium sized drums? OK, so I'll make this as easy as possible for you. If you can arrange to get the drums dropped off at the Stadium, and let me know when you have, then I will take them, measure them, and arrange to get new skins for them and supply suitable drumsticks/beater....and it will cost you guys not a penny. The only thing I ask in return is that you make full use of them at home games. If you could get that done in the next week or so, then I would endeavour to have them back to you and ready to use for the Boxing Day game.

That's not entirely the situation. Whilst we have not had the time to drive forward/pursue the Boardroom Banter due to the increasing amount of site resources that have recently had to be diverted to dealing with users who've been creating additional/unnecessary work for us...which resulted in us being late in sending the last set of questions...their seems to have been little motivation from the clubs side either and nobody there has been chasing us for anything. IMO, the whole communication setup between club and fans needs looking at and whilst CTO can act as one conduit for that communication, there's perhaps those who are better placed to be driving the project forward. It's just another on a long list of "To Do's" for us at the moment and it deserves/needs to be a bit more of a priority for someone.

When did we ever have "The Best Pie in Scottish Football"? I can't comment on the quality of the produce served at the games, or the service, as I'm tied up with doing the announcing. However, as the Supporters Trust have been in dialogue with the club over the matter for some time, and as some of the feedback suggests things weren't as they should have been then we'll ensure that gets fed back to the club via them (It's not really the remit of CTO to be taking on these discussions with the club). The only thing I can add is that of those I spoke to after the game, their was the feeling that some things were better (quality of the produce) whilst some things were a much and suchness (queues etc), whilst prices were verging on the ridiculous and not justified by the changes. I have my own opinions, such as nobody should have to pay more than ?2 for a pie....any kind of pie....and anything more than ?1 for a tea or coffee is daylight robbery. As for ?3 for a burger....that's just taking the p!ss. However, those are my own personal opinions. I had expected price increases, but it seems some are a bit steep. I understand that staff were taken in from elsewhere because Lindley simply didn't have the time to recruit and train locally for this game....so that won't be an ongoing thing. The real test for Lindley (and the club) will be what they do going forward in response to all feedback they get...positive and negative.

I've just been to the stadium and you can see the full length of the pitch so "Game On" is the right call.

I had a strange dream last night of the game being called off and a couple of thousand people still queueing at TCS demanding they be allowed in for their pies.....wonder how the experts would analyse that?!! :005:

Thats because both mine and tony's drums are knackered and plus we have no beaters! No excuse. As I've told you guys before, if you need help with replacing drum skins and beaters etc. then let me know what you need and I'll see what I can do!!!

Or....all these out of work people who want to go to the match could volunteer for programme/HT Draw Ticket selling and earn their ticket for the game!!! I believe it would be within the rules of income support/benefits claimants to do such a thing quite legitimately.

Stock is now definitely in transit (club have a tracking number). Darren has asked that I pass on his apologies and he will ensure that the new merchandise is available to people as soon as they can when it arrives....which will, unfortunately, be next week now.

My eyes are watering just thinking about it!!!!

What kind of rice would you like Stevico?

Maybe not :( I don't believe that to be the case, although I don't know the exacting workings of Lindleys operation and won't make comment or promise that I can't vouch for. From what we were briefed on when the Trust met with Darren last week, we should see an improvement on quality...which was already at rock bottom with the last lot, IMO...as well as service. As I understand it, Lindley will be just as involved with what happens on our (the fans) side of the counter as they are with the serving side. This means properly managing queues and looking at ways to speed up the service. This will happen by way of properly trained staff and, if necessary, the addition of additional "service points". These could take the form of hot dog style catering units placed in outside areas and/or "pie runners" with those tray things positioned around the ground. Personally I wouldn't expect to see those things on Saturday as they will need to get a feel for what's required and it would be unreasonable of us to expect them to spend where it's not necessary, but going forward I fully expect the whole thing to be more professional. Lindley have just as much at stake as they will be investing in the equipment etc, so it makes sense for them to maximise sales, and to do that they need to have the service and the product quality up to par. The deal with them is very much a partnership with the club, as opposed to how things have been done in the past where the club simply rented the space and that was it. As with anything new...I just hope people give it a chance and not write it simply off because they are used to sub standard service from the club in recent years.

I just gave Darren a shout to see if he had an update and, as I feared, Errea are ersing us around. Past experience has taught me to be careful about going to bat for the club on these things, but as I have been in the office when Darren has been on the phone to them etc. then I have no qualms whatsoever about backing them here and saying that Darren has done, and continues to do, all he can to get the merchandise here as soon as he can. He'll keep me up to date and will ensure that we know as soon as the stock arrives.

I'm carefully trying to manage expectations here Scotty..... :( I believe they have been asked to do, and do provide, Balti pies....but in terms of cutting them a bit of slack whilst they find their feet I'm not going to raise hopes too high at the moment :D

Not had any more news from club, but if Errea dispatched it on the 7th as they said they would (and we all know how reliable they can be) then it shouldn't be far away.

My understanding is similar to yours Mantis. What I would add to the discussion though, is that if you look carefully at the wording...certainly for the Scottish Legislation...there's no mention of "sitting" anywhere. All it states is that Stadia over a certain size must be all-seated. The only reference ever made to "you must sit" is by the SPL, and even then that was issued by way of a letter of interpretation to clubs and is not, or wasn't the last I checked, in the SPL Handbook. I would need to go back and refresh my memory, but as I understand it, there's nothing in Scottish Legislation that states Stadia belonging to clubs in the top flight must be all-seater, only that those with a capacity of over 10,000 seats must meet certain criteria. So again, the need for all-seater stadia for Scottish top flight football is an SPL requirement and not a legislative one. I've often wondered why, since so many clubs in Scotland seem against the "All-Seater" criteria, do they accept it? Certainly through my dealings with various people at ICT over the years it would seem to be that they are either ignorant of the actual rules and legislation...although in their defence they tend to get training/guidance from the SPL on the matter...or they simple chit their pants at the mere mention of the words "Health & Safety" and tend towards the ridiculous for fear that anything comes back on them. Any senior steward or police officer who is out there "on the front line" as it were and they will tell you (off the record of course) that they would far rather be looking after terracing. It's easier and safer for them to deal with issues there than to be tripping over people and seats to get in to deal with something in an all-seated stand. Ask first-aid and ambulance crew and they will tell you the same.....they will also tell you that most incidents they have to deal with come from people falling over seats, catching an ankle in them and (from personal experience) cutting shin on the back of one because you have to squeeze in and out. As far as I can ascertain there's no logical reason why seating would, or should, be considered any "safer" than terracing and whilst some older terracing might have issues with crushing etc, these are things that could be rectified easily and within the financial means of any club (certainly cheaper than having to build whole new stands). When this subject comes up, fans normally argue it from the point that "we've done it for years", "it's our right to stand" or "you get a better atmosphere in terracing". All arguments which are easily dismissed. What we need is a change of tact and to approach it from the angle of questioning why these rules exist and who put them in place. Clubs are happy to blame the relevant footballing association, who in turn point the finger at legislation....and in most cases they are feeding back misinformation and half truths which are heavily spun to support their stance. We are far too quick to accept this and need to break down the misinformation and challenge the situation from club level up. Win over the clubs and they will pressure associations (which they make up), win over the associations and they can then battle any legislation they feel is a hindrance.