ALSY

Excellent post. Another potential drawback about the team relying increasingly on senior players who may only be here for a season or two - and I appreciate that this is simply the norm for many teams nowadays - is that it probably makes it more difficult for young players to come through, as there are fewer old heads with significant experience of playing for the ICT first team to help them make the step up, and less stability in general.

No, I don't think I've seen any on here either, but a couple of people referred to posters or groups on Facebook saying something to that effect - I think that's what sparked the discussion.

Being down here, I never hear any rumours around the club until they appear on here. I'd just assumed that he would have more or less all the players fully on side, and that part of the motivation for not offering Munro and Duncan contracts was to reduce the possibility of dissenting or competing voices from senior players.

Also, this is now his team, so he must be given time to try to sort out the problems. We can't afford to sack one manager, hire another and then give him the funds to bring in his own players, and it would be unfair and probably pointless to bring someone else in (leaving aside the perennial question 'Who is there that could do better?')and expect them to build a successful team with this squad if Butcher can't do it. The only justifications I could see for getting rid of Terry Butcher in the next few months would either be if it became clear that he had completely lost the dressing room, or if results were so appalling that the supporters simply stopped attending.

Guess we need to wait to hear what the people who went have to say, but from the radio it sounded like we simply lost to the better team tonight.

If what they have just said on the radio is true, that is unbelievable. Tokely 'did a Tade'...

At the risk of repeating myself, in the name of ****...

Yeah, at the risk of sounding prematurely negative, I'm getting the same feeling: a defeat tonight would be bound to knock the players' confidence further, if the injury to Hayes is serious it robs us of our most dangerous player, and all the teams in the SPL look capable of picking up points this season. Just hope Butcher is able to find the winning formula again - he's done it in the past.

Extra time I think, from what Chick was saying earlier. Not that it sounds likely at the moment...

Maybe he'll take the opportunity tonight. He's been anonymous the twice I've seen him so far, but some players are slower to get started than others.

In the name of ****.

This is entirely sensible advice. All the same, it is very tempting to speculate... I'm guessing bringing Golobart in was a sign that Butcher didn't have confidence in Aldred. I did feel he deserved a chance against Aberdeen, rather than Golobart being thrown straight in without having had a proper chance to train with the team: after all, none of our central defenders has been great this season; each of them has been culpable for different goals scored against us. It's quite typical of Butcher to make his mind up quickly about his signings rather than persevering; overall, I think this is a strength, especially when you recall Brewster's stubborn refusal to change things when every man and his dog could see it was going tits up, but it does leave you praying that if he got it wrong last time with Aldred, he's got it right this time with Golobart.

Yeah, I arrived home from work and turned on the radio to hear Chick going on about that. Made a little too much of it IMO - if I couldn't make it living just an hour away, how does he expect the average Inverness-dwelling ICT supporter to make a half seven kick off 200 miles away on a Wednesday night? Mind you, I bet most of the crew from Harry's bar weren't there for kick off to make it into his head count. Sounds pretty poor so far: maybe Terry will clatter someone with the tactics board again and get them playing. Injury to Hayes also a real concern, especially with Killie at the weekend - they're the sort of team he should get a bit of space and time against.

I took Laurence's post to mean that he is someone who has moved around a bit over the course of his life and has made a point of going to watch the local team wherever he is living - not quite the same as 'supporting through thick and thin', as he put it, but nothing wrong with it in principle, and plenty of people do it. It's naive at best, and extremely patronising at worst, however, for him to assume he can come onto a site like this which is populated with many long-serving and extremely knowledgeable supporters, launch a completely immoderate attack on the players, management and club as a whole, and expect that suddenly the scales will fall from our collective eyes and we will realise that he, Laurence, has shown us the light.

Quite the reverse. Someone with a username like 'Top Six Next Year' has to put his money where his mouth is. I'm happy to bet against him. One day he'll win, and I'll be more than delighted to pay out. But I don't think it'll be this season.

You can just send a cheque now if you want...

Probably not good for us... 2-1 FT

Sounds like we're a lot better second half, but I'm a little surprised by the number of changes, given that, as far as I remember, Butcher felt that the team performed OK last week. I thought he would persist with Doran at least, who can drift in and out of games but offers more creatively than Andrew Shinnie from what I've seen. I was also surprised that the new guy went straight into the team when he's barely had the chance to train with his new team-mates - wonder if Butcher isn't very confident in Aldred? Anyway, 2-1 now - hopefully we can repeat what happened at Celtic Park last year.

Meeting 10 am in Counting House and heading to Eddinburgh between 10 and 11 then up to Dunfermline. You joining us in CH? I'll more than likely be there. At the moment the thought of starting at that time horrifies me - still gettting over the stag I was on last weekend - but come Saturday morning that will probably have changed.

Should be there. Last time I think it was The Elizabethan, halfway between Queen Margaret station and East End Park. Not the most atmospheric of places - personally speaking I think I'd prefer a bar in the centre, but I'll see what the other central belters are planning.

Given our lack of experience in midfield, he is exactly the sort of player we could do with, but from what Aberdeen suppporters have suggested, it sounds like it was his wage demands led Aberdeen to drop their interest, so that would rule us out too.

Yep - point taken, as I've just acknowledged in a slightly more considered post on the matchday thead than the one I posted last night. It would be pointless to keep going on about it in the forthcoming days and weeks. As I've also said in that post though, I do think it is valid to discuss what appear to be the differences (based on first impressions) in this season's team and last season's team when discussing the strengths and weaknesses of yesterday's performance. AMEN (Edited to add AMEN as per instructions below. And Mr Ender: you're about as subtle as a dayglo *****...)

If mine is one of the posts you're referring to here then, with hindsight and the benefit of a night's sleep, you're correct that it was too much of a knee-jerk reaction, born I suppose of disappointment at the result and performance. You're wide of the mark in your comments about 'bitching' and 'waiting for an opportunity to stick the knife in (again)' in my case at least, but I do agree with you and Alex that it would be pointless to keep referring to the loss of Duncan and Munro, as we need to move on. However, in trying to put together some sort of match report for this first game, I do think it's going to be necessary to weigh up what we have lost - with reference to all the departed players - against what we appear to have gained on first impressions of the new players. Briefly, as I will need to develop this in more detail later anyway, what concerned me most yesterday was that we appear to have lost a few players who are capable of reading the game and anticipating opponents' moves. Duncan, Munro and Rooney were all particularly strong in this area and thus tended to be in the right place at the right time more often than not. This is why I'd always preferred Duncan to Cox as deep-lying cover for the back four, although I suspect that once he has recovered, this is where Cox will be played. I thought Aldred, despite his undoubted strengths, looked a little prone to be pulled out of position - he reminded me a little of Bulvitis in this respect. Tade, too, didn't always seem sure of where he should be - there was no doubt about his hard work and the amount of running he did, but it did look a little aimless at times. Hopefully, however, this was down to over-enthusiasm and as the team gels and the new players settle into the SPL, their abilities to read the game will emerge and they will hold position better - it was, as several people have correctly pointed out, just the first game of a long season. Tansey, incidentally, looks an excellent signing - with his vision and range of passing he might be a replacement for Ian Black, a player we have missed badly IMHO.

Nah, I'm not convinced. Both players managed to make major contributions to the side under Paterson, Robertson, Brewster, Christie and Butcher, and it seems reckless, to say the least, to dispense with them so quickly. While I do think that Butcher is a good man manager and should be entitled to expect the loyalty of his players, could the alleged discipline issues not have been dealt with a little more diplomatically? Even the offer of one year contracts for these two players, explaining that in the long term TB envisaged building a team around younger players, would have allowed a smoother transistion. Today really was dreadful: unless we improve quickly then we could be cut adrift by the end of the first quarter. I'm not prone to melodramatic pessimism - honest - and I will be very happy if I'm proved wrong, but I think it will be a very difficult league this year.

I am deeply saddened. That is all. Not quite all. I will buy a lifetime's supply of Waitrose Coconut and Lime ice cream* for anyone who can convince me why it was a good idea to remove two of the most reliable, consistent, experienced and loyal players from a team that finished halfway up the SPL in its first season after promotion. *It is really good ice cream. Trust me.