davie

The first bus of the season will depart for Hamilton at 08:45 from The Caley Club in Grieg Street and 09:00 from Tulloch caledonian Stadium. Pick up in Aviemore and a stop at Broxden. Price is still an amazingly good value £15 per person so phone John on 07951309504 to book your self on the bus. Please do it soon, so that we can get a good idea of numbers. Remember that we can only keep running buses if you keep using them. Thanks for your continuing and brilliant support.

I'm the same. The guy simply isn't overweight and there are no doubts as to his fitness - at times like these I wish we had something like opta stats to put this stuff to bed. In the time he's been here he's created more goals than anyone, carried our midfield when he has had to (when we've had injuries etc.) and represented his country. With all due respect to our lardier brethern, fat boys don't do that.

Hearach, there will be a bus as per usual for each away game, including Hamilton. John will post details asap.

No, not a single thought enterred my head. Not one.

12th man, I would never mock ideas, especially those concerned with broadening the fan base, increasing the profile of the club or the income available to it, but I can't respond to them unless you "reveal" them. Obtaining funding poses no questions - most of the points that you make are matters of operational policy that the club's stadium manager would take very little time to sort out, and the costs are well known to the club already as are the potential figures for opening up useage. At present, the club's major working asset - the stadium - works for one day a week when it hosts either an under 20's or first team game. It has to be better utilised than that. Like you, I am all for giving our fans a greater voice in the running of the club and that is something I work towards at all times. I'm also completely behind any idea to establish a network of regional ICTFC fan bodies, whether formal with CJT or informal and again that's something that we are open to discussing with anyone. Like you, I think that the club's merchandise should be of a quality that reflects the standards of the club and by and large it is. So there is much we agree on. However, I would really like to know your ideas about how to "improve things for an outlay of 1 full paying adult over 3 yrs" and see if there is any way that I can assist or that CJT can.

we're not running a train. will still go tho.

I would say that introducing a 3g surface to the stadium is, on the whole, a good idea. It creates a playing surface that is consistent, true and not affected by weather to the same extent as grass. Neither will it invariably degrade over the course of a season which is almost entirely outside the growing period for grass. It would still require warming (rather than heating) periodically in winter but it would allow under 20's and other games to go ahead at the stadium without damage to the pitch. It's also a surface that gets easier to play on the more you do it, so it could create a playing advantage over sides with grass pitches, at least in the short term. There has always been cash available (up to 100% grant funding on a £400K investment) to clubs and local authorities from Scottish Government and the SFA for creating surfaces of this type and opening them out to wider useage. Crowdfunding is a viable method of funding whatever shortfall may exist. There is a potential additional income stream from pitch rental (which Airdrie do very well, for example) but more importantly there is an opportunity to create viable links between the club and an established football playing public - play football at Caley Thistle, watch football at Caley Thistle. There are also links between junior and kids football that already exist but can be strengthened immeasureably by playing on the same pitch as their heroes. There is certainly the potential to boost income by a significant sum per season, create employment and develope a high profile community facility. It's something that at a stroke would diminish any reliance on the facilities at Dingwall, which can only be good. As far as training facilities go, the "hub" at Charleston is a real no brainer. It will be heavily subsidised (or entirely funded) by public funds, will give Caley Thistle another visible presence in the city and further enhance the use of the rest of that planned facility. It's not an "academy" but it could be made to approach it for a manageable capital cost. I note that the above questions that we need to concentrate less on our football business and more on what appears to be an aspirational list of ideas that are admirable but wooly. We are a football club, that's why people come to TCS - to watch football. If we can involve more of them as stakeholders and participants, that's what brings them back to an enhanced matchday experience - not easy, but the nothing worthwhile ever is. Even rock and roll.

No doubt he'll surface at some point in the media as a pundit, and I don't think he'll regard himself as finished as a manager yet. As far as buttressing his own ego goes, I think he can genuinely say that he didn't get enough time at Hibs and as others have said, perhaps either Petrie or Dempster have thrown him under the bus in an effort to deflect from wholesale infrastructure problems at Easter Road. Time will tell, but it's not going to make TB look at his own failings any harder than in the past, which is a shame. It's clear that he had lost the dressing room and that anyone associated with him will be tanished so I can't see Marsalla or Malpas surviving the process. They will be the only things at Easter road that he held control over, so guilt by association is all that is left to them. TB had his ideal environment here, in that the club was small enough and his stature big enough for him to control everything. Transferring that to Hibs, creating a team in his own image and succeeding where so many others had failed would have been irresistable to TB, but there is no way that he could ever have coped with diluting that control to Leann Dempster of all people and so everything has ended in the only way it was ever going to - just a bit earlier than most would have thought. TB did a lot of good things for this club, and I liked the guy on a personal level. Because of that I ain't going to revel in this, or rejoice in his downfall. All I'm going to do is see how John Hughes builds on what TB left and enjoy where that takes us. Best of luck Terry. see that spellchecker.........

We simply don't have a club or a chairman that goes in for self aggrandisement. Other than that we at least equal and often exceed the on and off the field activities of our neighbours.

Not one of them would be fit to wear an ICT shirt.

Please, please can we close this thread now? Every time I think the feckin things died, some joker resurrects it.

I think cost may be an issue for some but I'm not convinced it's as big as that. I think prices compare with a trip to the cinema etc when everything is added in. The football is our leisure activity in our family so we tend to do the cinema, bowling etc rarely. I think the family section is a great deal for those with young children and there are finance packages available to spread the cost. It is a big jump in cost when they reach 12 or 16 I know but at least there are still concessions available. The club do on the day deals on a regular basis but I do know the take up is generally poor! I really feel these numbers are down to away crowds and fixture manipulation. I will concede there probably is a drop in home fans attending as well. IMO attending football is a habit. It's easy to get out of the habit and go and do other things at the weekend unfortunately for the club. I do worry about the sustainability for the future however. I could pay for 2 adults AND 2 kids, to go Ice Skating, on a saturday afternoon, for 2.5 hours, for about £3-4 CHEAPER thn it would cost just ONE adult to get the cheapest seat at TCS!!! I could take that same family of 4 to the Cinema, in the afternoon, for a pound or two more than what it would cost just me to get the cheapest seat in the house at TCS! Football is a RIP OFF....plain and simple. I find my season tickets much better value than cinema etc. as I said its a matter of choosing where youspend your money. I've never got a family ticket cheaper than £22 at the cinema....tho £23.20 for a family of 4 on a saurday afternoon to get into the cinema. i think the cheapest ticket for ONE adult at TCS is £21 For 2 adults and 2 under 12s you'd be about £24 a game for the four of you in the family section with season tickets. So much the same really. Not everyone has kids under 12, who would ONLY qualify for that price you quoted if the family were rich enuff to be able to fork out for two adult season tickets!!! So a fairer comparrison would be 2 x adult tickets for footie, in amily section = £32, plus two junior tickets=£14......so all in all.....£46 Smee, you are correct in saying that an afternoon at TCS is, on the face of it the most expensive of the three figures that you have illustrated and that's bound to be the case. However, comparing these three activities is like comparing apples and oranges - they are both fruit but they ain't the same. Others have illustrated that better than me. Football has a much higher cost base than any of the other activities you mention and therefore will need to charge more simply to pay players, keep up a stadium, provide coaching and do community work etc. etc. If you look back twenty years at comparative costs it was always thus. Football in Scotland isn't a rip off, it's a product fighting in a crowded market place for a share of that market. It's not all about cost however, it's about making a decision that you want to go along and support your team and you are prepared to make the investment needed. It's about knowing that you have helped in whatever small way to put that team on the park and ensured that they have a park to play on. I realise that some will be unable to make that investment but the pricing structure, season ticket offers and occasional offers are all about making sure that as many can come as possible. That's all the club can do. What would help is for every season ticket holder and every regular fan to persuade a family member, friend, colleague to come to watch the team. What would help is for Inverness to recognise that it really is a "use it or lose it" scenario with ICTFC and reciprocate support for the club. What would help is for parents to decide to take their kids along when they have a free ticket from school, just once a season. What would help is if people supported CJT in fundraising so that we can help to improve the matchday experience. The only alternative, and it's one that gets more real every year is to sell our best players to meet costs and maintain rather than improve. Caley Thistle is a club that is probably unique in the SPFL in the access and openness of all aspects of the club to its fans. If you want to meet players and get your photo taken, it's no bother. They won't speed past you out of their training ground in a merc. If you want to speak to the manager or the chairman, pick up the phone - they are liable to answer it. If you want hospitality or to sponsor a player it won't cost a fortune. These people will go the extra mile to reward whatever support you give them. On the other hand Torville & Dean will never turn up at your kid's primary school and if you want to see them live, it'll cost an average £125 for your hypothetical family. If you want to go to the cinema and see Madonna, you know that the best you will ever do is catch a glimpse in Dornoch past the forty layers of bulky security guards that make Caly D look skinny, or if you are prepared to pay for a meet and greet, it'll cost you £1295 for a photo and one signed piece of merchandise. Each. I know where i'd rather my money went.

I shoudn't, but I'm going to bite. Dad, your first assertion (because they are assertions, not conclusions) is right but the rest are to varying degrees incorrect.Your second point is simply wrong. Since the split (which I'll take your "recent weeks" as) we have drawn two lost two won one. That is not "very unsuccessful" by any definition, especially when the defeats are to the top two in the League. Average in the top half of the League at worst. Boring to watch? Only if you prefer another style. Not everyone does. Yesterday was 67% to 33% possession to ICT, possession recycled and this contributed to St. Johnstone having to chase the game, even at 0-0. There was only one winner, the passing was excellent and possession good. Your third point is again, simply wrong. Hughes is the manager, and he will take credit for the way his team plays, no matter what style you percieve it to be. That's the way it works. The second half didn't happen because of someone saying "forget everything I've told you" it happened through keeping possession of the ball, creating and taking chances. Which is precisely what the manager says he tells the players. On your fourth point, Hughes has talked long and loud about what he wants this team to do, which is at least equal the achievements of this season by playing a passing game based on possession and control. I see no mystery in that, and therefore have a good idea of what style of football we will see next year. Me? I look forward to it.

This kind of public meltdown does no one any favours. Mahonio, you aren't putting things across that well right now because you appear so emotional about it. It's time to step back a bit. You're entitled to your views and to challenge others, but not like this.

Hughes neither scored an own goal, nor gave away a penalty and by all accounts our second half display was tremendous. Your dispaly on the other hand (and this is NOT personal abuse) is becoming increasingly tiresome. Please give at least some rationale behind what you contend rather than simply rant.

We were most certainly not second best. It was an equal game, as the scoreline shows. Neither was it dull, unless your thing is watching sides lump the ball up the park. it's not mine. Pressure was created when United brought on El Alagui to go a very tall three up front and they got back in with a goal that I would really like to see again, although it might just be down to the lack of height. Midfield coped well, and Danny Williams was stand out for me, in an unfamiliar position. For what its worth, neither Meekings or Warren have "had enough", merely injury and illness that has intervened. My arab contact reckoned that draper was mightily effective and christie impressive in a system that he reckoned was very close to that played by United. My name ain't Jim, but it's definitely football.

This thread is beginning to be an embarrassment. That there are fans who are happy to see Hughes continue to mould a team and accept short term pain is undoubtably true. That there are fans who see no improvement being possible from a manager they have no faith in is also undoubtably true. However, the vast majority of us - and not just CTO users - are sat in the middle watching both sides belittle each other, hurtle sarcasm and borderline abuse and then sit back and sactimoniously take offence for 35 pages. 35 pages - and we're not even finished with the half a season that Hughes has been in charge. Meanwhile others look on and wonder what on earth is going on. All views are, being personal ones, equally valid and have to be respected. Before either side claim that their "consituency" is bigger, have you asked? I have, actively seeking out and listening to the views of those who shout loudest at games and that's why I think that it's a minority that want John Hughes sacked. I think we are all adult enough to know that no matter how high feelings run that the board will not act on any of the concerns of a minority (albeit sizeable) of the support at this stage as results over the season do not warrant it. It doesn't matter whether Butcher or Hughes are responsible depending on your view, so how's about getting more people into the ground, offering support and pushing the team over the hurdle of the last three games staring tomorrow. Well?

I really hope that this "disloyal v happy clappers" stuff doesn't translate into a real schism in our support. I personally don't think it does. John Hughes is manager because he presented the board with the best case for filling the vacancy, ahead of all the other applicants. He didn't get the position by default. He presented the board with a vision that is entirely coherent with their aims, i.e. that of a successful team playing passing football that entertains people and encourages them to fill seats in the stadium. That's not what is happening right now as the team adapts to changes that the manager has brought about, and it's unfortunately to be expected. Since coming in, Hughes has had very few weeks where two (or three) games have not been the norm, so there's little time for coaching in there. there have been injuries and accumulated fatigue. It takes time, and that's what he should get. He also doesn't have a real budget for increasing the playing staff - because of the lack of a league sponsor etc, there's not a massive amount of money around and that's just fact. The problem will compound if people decide that, in the face of one of our most successful seasons (by any measure) they will not renew season tickets. Another 300 or so would be a more constructive and positive direction to head in, but I'm not going to tell others what to do or what to buy, just not to base their support on a hasty reaction. All I would ask is that they look at all aspects of what the club is, how it operates and what it means to them and I'm sure that would transcend what I sincerely hope (and believe) is a temporary setback in results. Judge John Hughes next October, but until then please get behind him and the team.

I see Neil Lennon was directly quoted as saying after Sunday that he thought it Celtic's best display of the season. Their engine of Scott Bown and Commons (both internationals) had a great day when you could see how they got to be so valued by Gordon Strachan. Up front, they were stunning. Any (and I mean any) team in Scotland would have been hammered by them on Sunday. Dundee United, for all their talent, don't have the same presence or skill level and will not bring the same threat. Cifci is capable and Armstrong is very skilled but they are liable to blow hot and cold and they have all season. So no correlation, post #60.

Great supporter and a fine man. Will be missed. RIP.

Gordie thanks. THat will get updated as soon as possible. Apologies Don.

Davie Thanks you kindly for you reply. I haven't suggested that CJT should go to the board about Hughes at this stage, as I also don't think its something that should be done at this stage and hopefully will never get to that stage. My main gripe was that if members of the CJT board are not prepared to give an honest opinion on concerns they may have about Hughes management then they shouldn't be criticising those that do. I also said previously that perhaps it is just a coincidence that CJT have no concerns but that would surprise me as a large majority of ICT fans that I speak to are concerned Gordie, No problem. I think maybe that you have to understand that CJT board members do have their own opinions (I certainly do!) but do't voice them in the interests of impartiality. As OCG and me have said, we are only a Board who act on the instruction of the membership and for the most part that means not pre-empting things by voicing opinions. Occasionally, when it's put forward as a personal point of view it's ok but usually it's better to avoid opinion (personal opinion

Gordie (and DD) Believe me, there is no "cosiness" about relationships between CJT and ICTFC. If there are things to be said to the club on behalf of the membership then that gets done at whatever level it needs to be done at up to and including the Board and Chairman. Likewise, if there are fan issues that need addressed they will approach us even if we might not agree. It's a mature relationship which is completely transparent and has to be - if it was any other way at a club our size, it wouldn't work. But we tend to deal in matters of fact and requirement, not opinion which is what this thread is. DD, you are right CTO represents the views of a part of the Caley Thistle support and it's clear that there are divergent opinions even in that one part of the support (or this thread wouldn't exist) Neither pro nor anti John Hughes supporters can extrapolate other arguments out to suppport others - linking our crowd size ( a challenge that existed long before John Hughes arrived) to his management of the club isn't valid as there isn't clear supporting evidence and doesn't demonstrate that there is a wider body of discontent. It could equally be put down to the price of attendance, timing of matches or any number of factors. At the moment, we lie 5th in the League and may well finish higher, have been to a cup final and a quarter final of another, established dominance over our closest rivals and remain in with a chance of qualifying for europe. That's all fact and on that basis I'd have a hard job going to the club and complaining about the direction of the mangement of the club. Next year? We'll judge that on it's merits at the time or as directed to by our membership. Davie Balfour Chairman CJT

Can't, because I'm doing the thing! Raising money for macmallan, if you'd like to donate do it here: http://www.justgiving.com/David-Balfour3 and make a difference. Is anyone else on CTO doing thios?

Last word on this. For me, this qualifies as vitriol (personal opinion)