Charles Bannerman

Forget the "large number" of ex Caley and Thistle refuseniks.... they are a drop in the ocean and, 13 years on, of negligible significance in this debate. Towards the end of their existences, Thistle's and Caley's combined core support was around 600. Only a small minority became refuseniks and I suspect that a number of these have slipped back into the fold. Of the hard liners, a fair number will have moved away from Inverness or indeed in 13 years have passed away. I really think that the number of people currently within travelling distance of the Caledonian Stadium who used to be regular Howden Enders/ Jaggies and who could attend but don't because they still disapprove of the merger is very small indeed. I think a far, FAR bigger limiting factor on ICT attendances is the number of people who go to watch the Old Firm instead. It was inevitable that, when there was no national league side in Inverness, local fans would support other leading teams... especially the OF. As a result there has always been a substantial OF support which will take a number of years to whittle down and will never entirely do so because of the significant Glory Hunter factor. When ICT got into the lower leagues, it was still perfectly straightforward to have an OF club as your Big Team and ICT as your Wee Team. But when ICT got into the SPL this posed a dilemma for a few people... some jumped one way, some the other. ICT's best hope is that, over time, "new" support - ie the younger generation - will go to them to a greater and greater extent. As far as the location of the stadium is concerned, I do agree it's not particularly accessible, but having studied the original 1993 document examining the long list of 13 sites, it did really come down to East Longman and Stratton Farm. There were major objections to the other 11 sites - for instance the cost of land at Inshes was prohibitive. I don't intend to go into the relative economic cases for these two sites, that's not under discussion here, but I could argue that Stratton Farm is even less accessible than East Longman. As for classes in schools to educate kids in the direction of the local club, I have to say I have had a "Supercaleygoballisitccelticareatrocious" poster on my classroom wall since February 9th 2000, but of course it is the function of the education system to help youngsters to make decisions for themselves. Don't forget, though, that Team ICT has a significant input to local schools.

Soemone mentioned the Inverness Cup earlier in this thread. Now there's a competition which has gone into steep decline in recent years. Even though that is clearly a symptom of the huge progress the game in the Inverness area has made in recent years, as an Invernessian I regret its recent obscurity. Who could forget that legendary final at Grant Street in December 1995? Almost 3000 packed in to watch Caley Thistle beat County 5-2... hat trick from Man of the Match Iain Stewart but Daisy Ross was outstanding that day. It was also a debut for both Brian Thomson and Mike Teasdale. Then there was also another superb final around 1992 when County beat Caley (and I mean "Caley") again in front of a large crowd at Kingsmills. HOE through Roy MacLennan took over sponsorship of the competition in 1993 because I remember the sponsorship being marketed as "a compeition for the new Caledonian Thistle club to play in next season". I recollect that one well since my then 7 year old son attanded the draw with me and was asked to pull out the home teams. An apprentice Howden Ender at the time, he was delighted to take Caley from the hat at the first attempt. I think the Inverness Cup also produced one of the most boring matches I have ever seen.. Caley v Clach at the Caledonian Stadium about seven or eight years ago. We were all just praying for a goal... for ANYONE to stop it going to extra time. Unfortunately in recent years the competition seems to have suffered frequent delays and for some reason some ties don't get played until the next season... the whole thing seems to have become relegated to the sidelines. A casualty of progress I suppose.

Inverness Castle??!! That really is incredibly bad! What image does Inverness Castle convey? Reliance prison vans by day, acne ridden wee neds in burberry baseball caps peering over the dashboards of beaten up Vauxhall Novas by night and the ever present incontinent seagull crapping its bowels out over a decidedly green and white looking Flora MacDonald's head. Let's not go there!

.... especially if Pele has anything to do with it!

That's exactly the point I'm making in my post!

Yes we all know that but it still means that these guys need to live "away from home" which they don't especially like, would prefer not to do and don't do if they either don't have to or there's no significant advantage from doing so. And while I agree that people from the central belt are perhaps a bit more conscious of distance than we Highlanders (for whom it's long been part of the culture) that's just the way things are. Irrespective of how disadvantageous this "Central Belt" thinking is to clubs up here, it's part of football life and they might as well get on with it. I had a very interesting discussion in the press box on Saturday with a gentleman who thought that it was terrible that Rangers had to travel to Inverness and Aberdeen so often. Unfortunately we had just got to the bit where I was pointing out that this was a trip ICT and the Dons had to make every fortnight when my phone rang. Whether or not it was significant that this gentleman happened to be wearing a royal blue tie and had a large royal blue hankerchief in his suit pocket I wouldn't care to comment.

Where in the UK, pray, has the game developed more dramatically at top level over the last decade or so than in Inverness? I would suggest that Marius Nicolae stands to contribute a huge amount to that ongoing development - in a situation where, for reasons of geography, it is very difficult to attract high quality players to Inverness. There is also no doubt that he is of the highest calibre and he only misses the 75% criterion because of injury.

I think too much fuss is made about departed/ departing players. I would really find it difficult to say much against the manner of the departure of Dargo, Brown or Dods and I am certainly not aware of anything that any of them has said against Caley Thistle at any time since. I think, to an extent, they have been harshly judged by SOME ICT fans. I know that the Dargo situation looked very messy... will he, won't he etc.... and to some it might have seemed strange that he then signed for St. Mirren. However I don't think that the player's fundamental need to get back south is fully appreciated. In particular, I understand that his girlfriend was very keen to get back home and in that light I can appreciate that he would want to take his time about it - and who could blame him if he waited for the best possible deal once he had made a decision to move? As far as I am concerned, Mark Brown made a career decision to take up an offer from a very large club - with far more money, more exposure to the international shop window and opportunities to play in Europe. The reverse side of that decision was that there was a significant chance that he would spend a long time on the bench, which he has done.... until now.... Remember also that a large slice of the profit which Caley Thistle has just declared has come from Mark Brown's move. I also think that Darren Dods' move to United was very much influenced by the central belt factor, and understandably so. A lot of these players come up here, do a great job, but understandably want back home after a while. And what a professional Darren was during the months between his pre contract and passing the captain's armband on to Grant Munro. I certainly made a point of shaking him by the hand and congratulating him on that after the last home game. Caley Thistle fans thought there was no life after the departure of, for instance, Bobby Mann and David Bingham. Need I say more on that? And despite the slight controversy apparently generated at the time by Mrs. Mann, I note that Bobby is rightly on the short list for the Hall of Fame.

OK... I realise it's open season on the BBC at the moment and it's easy to take a swipe but the Rankin thing is a simple and obvious Freudian type slip. Ian Rankin is, of course, the well known author of the Inspector Rebus mysteries and whoever wrote the copy has quite simply interchanged Christian names. It's something we've all done. In fact the best memory I have of that was when Alan Michael was doing commentary from the Caledonian Stadium and he referred to "Geri" Halliwell in the visiting goal! Gringo... yes, there was a period when ICT's home record wasn't great, but across the wider picture of 13 years I would suggest they have quite a formidable home record. I'm sure you've heard the term "Fortress Caledonian Stadium".

I met Jock McDonald at Dingwall last Saturday and he was reminding me of how he got King Willie to Kingsmills. Jock, on taking over as Jags Chairman, had basically decreed that the Highland League title would be coming to Kingsmills. Now, Jock's decrees have the habit of assuming reality, but to do this he needed a manager and decided on Willie. Elgin's fee was ?150 so he borrowed ?10 from each of 15 people, including his father, and Willie arrived on a wage of ?3 a week! The resulting back to back titles in 1972 and 1973 are now a part of Black and Red folklore. Willie was a gentleman and it was also a privilege to work with him in the press box after he retired from the active side of the game.

SP - Curly will be rotating in his grave at French like that!

SP - I'm absolutely certain that there were over 6000 there for the St. J game in 1992 and it was packed out that afternoon. Kingsmills - I would defer to your superior knowledge here. I only based my original statement on a subjective feel for the place. (And it must regularly have felt as if there were 7000 in the notorious Kingsmills away dressing room!) I think, though, that both these observations confirm that neither Kingsmills nor Telford Street could hold 10,000 although I believe Grant Street originally was much bigger. I can't remember who on earth I had the conversation with recently about Grant Street finally being bought outright by Clach with money they got from selling players from their great 1948 team. If that hadn't happened and they hadn't owned the place to sell part of it as part of the 1990 rescue, the club would certainly have gone down the tubes at that time.

This is what I was trying to say earlier. I'm sure it was in the Clach Centenary book, The Lilywhites, that I read about crowds of 10,000 plus for some special games there in decades gone by. Indeed I think Grant Street was the only ground in Inverness capable of accommodating that kind of number. Before the 1990 sell off of land, it was huge. In the case of Telford Street, it was certainly creaking at the seams with 6000 for the St. Johnstone cup tie in 1992 and I also think a similar number for Rangers in 1984. As I recollect, I don't think Kingsmills was even as big as that. Certainly I changed the BBC copy we ran to the biggest SEATED attendance.

I'm splitting hairs here perhaps, but might this not just be the biggest SEATED crowd ever to watch as football match in Inverness. I have a feeling the Clach Park used to attract over 10,000 on odd special occasions in years gone by. (I'll not tempt fate by saying that this won't even be the biggest seated crowd if the Singing Section have anything to do with it!)

Now that the short list for the Hall of Fame is public on the MFR website, I thought I'd place some very brief biographical reminders here just in case anyone needed their memories refreshed about the 12 nominees. In no particular order..... Alan Hercher - scored the club's first ever hat trick v Arbroath in its very first SFL game in August 94. Played a huge part in the 96 Cup campaign which ended against Rangers in the QF with vital goals v Livi and East Fife. An absolute stalwart of Inverness football who was just snatched in time from shinty. Mike Noble - Captain courageous of the 97 D3 winning side. Does much more need said? Like Herch, a local lad and a hero of the Highland League into the bargain. Defensively so solid in thes early years and one of "the few" who made the successful transition from the HL to the SFL. Good to see him still looking after the mascots on match days. Jimmy Calder - I feel another book coming on! What a man! Caley Thistle's answer to Alf Tupper, the tough of the Track, who held down the day job whilst performing amazing and eccentric sporting feats on a diet of fish and chips. Penalty stopper supreme. Heart stopper supreme also when he used to come off his line in terrifying fashion. Would probably find it difficult to get on top of the crossbar these days. Iain Stewart - Fantastic value for the frightening 30K the tribunal told Pele he's have to pay Lossie for him. All time top scorer until eventually overhauled by Dennis and 27 in one season. Frequent destroyer and evader of defences. Just how many hat tricks did the wee man score? Mike Teasdale - made his debut along with Brian Thomson in the famous victory over Ross County in the Inverness Cup Final in December 1995. Superb both in midfield and defence and to my mind his goal which beat Alloa 1-0 at Telford Street was the one which turned the 97 championship season in the right direction after the customary slow start. Brian Thomson - at the risk of appearing to dwell too much on goals, no one will ever forget Thomson's strike which beat Stenhousemuir 1-0 in the Scottish Cup in 1996. Minutes later on Sportsound "Caley Thistle....... will play..... Rangers...." And there were so many more. A guy I got on especially well with. Hope he's at the Legends' Night. Paul Cherry - just how many "Man of the Match" awards did he lift in 96-97? So utterly solid in the middle of the park and no messing... hence the odd red card (don't read this Blackie!). Yet another of Pele's great signings. And a very nice looking wife too if I remember correctly! Paul Sheerin - it was a wee bit like the assassination of JFK. I remember exactly where I was when he put away that penalty to bury it 3-1 at Celtic Park. Unfortunately I wasn't at Celtic Park, but I did stop my car in the middle of Culduthel Road when the award was given. I hope passers by didn't spot it rocking to and fro and come to the wrong conclusion! The latest recruit among the list of 12 and what a player. He's more than welcome to share my taxi to the Drumossie on the night. Bobby Mann - we were in the front foyer at the Stadium as Bobby glared down at me and said "It wuz MAH goal!" I had had the temerity to refer in an interview to Lubo Moravcik's OG at Celtic Park but since then it has been Bobby's. Apart from his own rock solid contribution, I also believe Bobby had a big positive influence on Grant Munro. I trust the slightly controversial manner of his departure and his lack of pace against a certain D. Agathe of Raith Rovers won't count too much against a great ICT player and captain. Paul Ritchie - I remeber meeting Paul in the Heathmount when he was up with Partick in the Cup last year and thinking "what a gentleman"... and that was apart from the amazing contribution he made on the field, especially in terms of the goals he scored. Let's just forget his efforts on behalf of Hamilton which put ICT out of the Cup in 97! I always admired him for keeping up his profession of accountancy while still playing. Iain MacArthur - on top of 30K for Stewartie, we all thought another 20K for this guy was really pushing the boat out, but what a bargain! Iain MacArthur's part in the D3 championship was absolutely massive and very much needed in defence, given Pele's attacking flair. It was a great pity he was so badly affected by injury. Daisy Ross - Hat trick Stewartie may have been the official man of the match in the 95 Inverness Cup Final, but to me it was Daisy's game. He tore Ross County apart down the left and it was so good to see yet another Highland player make such a huge mark for Caley Thistle. How many miles did Daisy knock up between Kinlochbervie and Inverness to play and train? Vetle Andersen - Well there you go. Just in case some people don't understand why Charlie, Barry Wilson, Dennis Wyness etc aren't on the list, the rules are that it can only be players who have been at least 3 years away from the club. Statistically - 1 - Nine of the players were Pele signings (which, despite SP's great talent with signings, is inevitable because of the time rules). The other 3 were there from the start through Thistle and Caley. 2 - Six of the 12 were in what I quote in my book as Pele's "preferred starting eleven" in 96-97 (and Herchie by that stage of his career was a regularly used sub who Pele could be guaranteed to use on 75 minutes). Three more - Christie, Hastings and Wilson - are ineligible since they're still there but will surely have Legend status conferred on them in the fulness of time. Paul Sheerin hadn't arrived by then. The other player is Scott "Trigger" MacLean who himself was no mean operator.

:025: Donald... I applaud you for holding up your hands like that. Look man... just enjoy the whole thing. Your team is in the SPL and doing well. It has an ever strengthening core of support and at the centre of that a Supporters' Trust which is looking after the interests of all ICT fans and the club itself in many different ways. Why not roll up your sleeves, get stuck in positively and constructively and focus your enthusiasm for the benefit of the club and the Trust?

Don - "Despite the great price it is still outwith the scope of the majority of fans" Is that not a bit of an apology of a statement for a rebel to be making?! Come on... you would never hear Che, Lenin, Mao, Rod the Mod or even Wolfie Smith apologetically dip their toe in the water of criticism like that. It looks from here as if you want to have a moan about this but at the same time be very polite about it and not offend anyone. In terms of the product on offer, £55 is a pretty rock bottom price. But the Supporters' Trust not only runs events like this, it also has the likes of the bowling night which, I seem to recollect, cost a fiver plus a small contribution to the Johndo MacKenzie Shoe Fund. Similarly, in terms of football, you can go to the Caley Stadium or even Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge or the Bernebeu. But for those who don't want to spend that kind of money, there are several alternatives, including the Welfare at the Bught. You get what you pay for and there is a range of options on offer. Fortunately the Trust seems to have managed in its various activities to cater for all price ranges in addition to the part it has had to play in the promotion of the interests of fans of ICT, which I expect to grow.

I'm really struggling with this one. It's not just a case of me not following Caley D's point of view... I can't even be sure if he's trying to make a point in the first place! The best I can make of it is that he perhaps thinks the Trust should have borrowed a marquee from the Elton John gig, stuck it in thge car park and sent out for a takeaway of Big Macs and done the Legends that way for a couple of quid? Caley D... look at it this way. The Supporters' Trust has come a very long way in its short existence and has managed to be a lot of things to a lot of people. At one end, it has organised high turnover events which have grossed large amounts of money for the ultimate benefit of ICT. At the other end it has been very active indeed in creating "people's" events such as the Bowling Night and the Football Forums in addition to the initiative it took not only in setting up the singing section but also the manner in which the Trust fought the fans' corner in the unfortunate aftermath of the Singing Section's debut. I would suggest to you that any philosophy which only wants to concentrate on the latter type of activity is one which is backward looking to the days of the Highland League. I could write at great length about Caley D's suggestion that "in the economic climate that currently surrounds football everything is expensive in the eyes of the fans " but will desist. All I will do is to return to the theme that football by its nature has to be an expensive activity for those who want to watch it. When you have a body of 20 plus full time professionals at a club who, by the nature of their employment, can only work productively for an hour and a half a fortnight, the cost of providing what they do is bound to be high. This is the fundamental nature of modern football and if that is what fans want, that is what they are going to need to pay for. But at least the involvement of the corporate sector does manages to relieve the burden on fans to a commendable extent.

Why this extreme obsession with the so called "carbon footprint"? If this gas, which makes up just 350 parts per million of the atmosphere and isn't nearly in the same greenhouse league as methane (cowfart), IS really the reason for climate change, then the cause of that is PEOPLE. It is people who put CO2 into the atmosphere through their way of life... they burn fossil fuels, they run cars, they use electricity made from the combustion of carbon compounds etc, etc. If you really want to reduce CO2 emissions... then don't reproduce! The ultimate and guaranteed solution to the question of human production of CO2 is to limit the number of humans causing it. Therefore, Al Gore, who has procreated four children, is rather more guilty of contributing to climate change than your average human being. Had he been rather less ambitious in that respect, then the world would have been that much more environmentally friendly. So don't knock the Chinese because of their attempts to achieve Western economic standards. They alrerady have a 1 child policy which will do far more to stop CO2 emissions than anything Mr. Gore might have to say. Here's another tip if you're serious about reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.... don't cut your grass or weed your garden. The more green material you have around, the more CO2 will be photosynthesised away!

To be precise: "Caley Thistle say they're now VERY CLOSE to a done deal for Gillingham striker Dean MacDonald. Agreements have been reached with both club and player and he's now expected to arrive in Inverness today to start training. But not arriving today will be Austrian duo Dominic Toboga and Benni Bauer. Toboga is now injured so their observation trip has been postponed until the 16th." I wouldn't like Grassa or Charlie reading this thread and thinking I was making any assumptions on their behalf, but Caley 100 has more or less correctly quoted the situation as I understood it late yesterday afternoon.

I would fully back what Scotty has just said and done. The original post named an illegal substance in conjunction with a turn of phrase which implied guilt. Theoretically that could be actionable. I really can't overstate the complexity of the situation in which some posters are in danger of placing themselves. The law in relation to what you can and cannot say publicly in a situation like this is quite extensive and complex and it's an area best kept well clear of.

I do think that, in addition to any shortage of funds or fiscal prudence, there is the huge extra factor of geography. On the last day of the season, Sportsound - in the absence of rights to broadcast the FA Cup Final - ran a very comprehensive Pundits' Roundup of the various SPL clubs. Caley Thistle's reveiws from the likes of Craig Paterson, Gordon Smith and Murdo MacLeod were very good indeed. So was the pundits' perception of Inverness as a good place to live and to play football. But they could not deny what we have known for a long time - that the relative remoteness is a major disincentive for players to come here. Caley Thistle gets hit by a double whammy. There's not a huge amount of money around and at the same time, for any given level of quality, I'm sure they have to pay more than their rival clubs in the central belt. Caley Thistle also has an outstanding record for improving players whose careers look doomed. So, what has happened on a number of occasions is that underachieving players (Dodds and Dargo come immediately to mind) will come here because their current form means they are unable to meet their wage aspirations down south. During their time at ICT they are helped to realise their true potential again so by the time they reach the end of their contract here, they once again are able to compete in the central Scotland market. Also by that time they feel they have done their time "in the sticks" and want back home again. So now ICT find themselves in the completely opposite situation of a player whose status in the wage market place has now gone up and who in addition feels he needs more financial incentive still to extend his stay in the north. Stated simply, the club with the most limited financial resources is the one which, because of geography, has to pay over the odds for players, some of whom then want back home after a two or three year contract. Stated more simply, ICT, apart from having the most limited resources in the SPL, is also the club which, because of remoteness, has to pay over the odds for players who even then will want to get back home after a two or three year contract. By the way, I don't wholly subscribe to the theory that Craig Dargo was completely financially driven. The strong desire of his girlfried to locate wholly back south was, I believe, a VERY important factor as well. I also had a discussion along similar lines with Roy MacGregor last week. But as far as Inverness are concerned, the idea of leaving for a better wage down south doesn't always seem to work in practice... as former players and managers have found out!

Sophia.. Pele made a huge number of excellent signings, but in addition had one or two pressed on him from "board level" who maybe weren't all that brilliant. Vetle, as I understand it, was one of these. Martin Glancy was another.

The extreme difficulty in answering this question is a tribute to the host of excellent signings Steve Paterson and his successors have made over the years. On the other question, the number of "duffers" is much, much smaller, hence a much shorter list of candidates for Worst Ever. It's fair also to say that this list features players who the managers of the time really didn't want but who were "given" to them. Vetle springs to mind as a prime example.

HC that's a relief! I would have to say that Darran Thomson was anonymous enough for me to have forgotten about him but I just couldn't imagine anyone going for Brian Thomson. I think we'll have to disagree rather less extremely over Mark McCulloch.