DoofersDad

A great result after what must have been a very difficult week for the players. Not only have we finally put the sequence of draws behind us , we have ended a winless run and extended our record unbeaten run. A rearranged defence kept a clean sheet and according to the BBC stats we had 15 attempts on goals so must have been creating a fair bit. All of this has got to give the team confidence going forward. The smallness of our squad was illustrated by the fact there were only 5 on the bench today, however, the U18's terrific result last night and throughout this season shows there are young lads pushing for a place in the 1st team squad. There's a lot to be optimistic about.

Partick have the worst defensive record in the league and confidence must be low having lost their last 6 league matches. Whilst the manager may have decisions to make at the back, the key tomorrow must be to dominate in midfield and put them under pressure. Maybe a back 3?

Actually you are not disagreeing with me on that. I too find it very difficult to see how he can continue here but the club need to wait upon the sentencing before making that decision. This discussion has been based solely on the Prosecution case which is clearly compelling. Another fact which will act against Calder is that the report talks about identification not being a problem. That suggests Calder was arrested sometime after the event. Had Calder felt any remorse after this appalling assault then the sensible thing would have been to immediately turn himself into the police. What the report does not address and what seems bizarre is that if the evidence of CCTV footage is as clear as reported, why did Calder not plead guilty? He and his lawyers will have seen it. There is either some significant bit of information which has not been reported or, in the cold light of day Calder has made an incredibly stupid decision. If the evidence is as straightforward as folk here are assuming then his defence lawyers will have advised him to plead guilty, If that is the case then his behaviour is even more reprehensible that we already know it to be. So whilst the information we do know makes prospects look very grim for Calder, the club cannot react in a knee jerk fashion. They need to base their decision on the full facts of the case, (some of which may not be known until the detail of the background checks is known) and take legal advice. It may be there will no legal grounds for dismissing him but if that is the case, the best thing all round may well be for Calder to agree to a termination of contract by mutual consent. What we don't want to happen is for Calder to successfully sue the club for wrongful dismissal.

If you read my posts, you will see that I have repeatedly stated that Calder's actions are inexcusable so please don't accuse me of trying to make excuses for him. Calder will be sentenced by the courts and will have to take his punishment whatever it is. After that, it is surely in the interests of all concerned to minimise the risk of Calder re-offending. That requires trying to have an understanding of why he behaved the way he did and supporting him (as a society) in his rehabilitation. Trying to understand the reasons for crime is not to excuse those crimes but is a vital step in trying to prevent future crime. Failing to support the rehabilitation of people with criminal records only leads to more crime and the distress it causes. That's why it is important to raise issues to try to help an understanding of why Calder behaved the way he did.

Absolutely nobody is giving any hint that Calder's behaviour is acceptable. Absolutely nobody is saying that footballers should be treated more favourably than anyone else or that better players should be treated more favourably still. What some people are clearly saying is that footballers should be treated far less favourably than the rest of us. Your prejudice on this matter is clear when you say the attack was without provocation. How do you know that? Were you in the courtroom and did you hear Calder admit there was no provocation? Of course, provocation does not excuse his actions, but it may explain why he flipped. You talk of community values, but one important value in a community is to support the rehabilitation of offenders. The courts will punish him as part of the due legal process but you seem to feel he should also be punished by the club and the community and thrown out of his chosen career. He needs to accept the punishment of the courts, but what purpose does it then serve to punish him for the rest of his life? I would hope and expect that Calder is utterly ashamed at what he has done and is now full of remorse. The responsibility of a caring society is to support people who have offended and try and ensure they don't offend again. People who are given a second chance are often the very ones who then become very active themselves in supporting community projects, often atoning for their own wrongs many times over. That is why I don't think the club should make any rushed decisions here. I don't think it is in anybody's interests to kick Calder out Professional Football. It may well be that it is best if he plies his trade elsewhere, but that is a decision for the club in the light of all the facts.

There is absolutely nothing in what I wrote which in any way condones what Calder did. What we shouldn't do, however, is rush to judgements when we don't know all the facts. From the report, the facts are clearly not as clear cut as your summary would suggest. In fact, the report paints a rather bizarre picture and there are clearly gaps which may have a bearing and which presumably will be known to the courts and will be taken into account in sentencing. Yes he knew the victim. He dropped her off at her car. She then, for some reason or by accident drove her car into his. The report doesn't say whether this incident happened at the point where he dropped her off or at some later point after they had both driven off. The report says that following the collision they agreed to drive to a pub car park. That means that immediately after the collision they must have had a discussion. One can imagine he was pretty annoyed but there is no suggestion that he was in any way threatening to her at that point, indeed, had he been, then why would she have agreed to drive to a pub car park? There is no information in the report which says whether they got out of the cars at the point of collision - perhaps they spoke on their mobiles and agreed to drive to the car park and look at any damage there. At the car park Calder punched her through her car window. When she got out of the car he is reported to have hit her with a shoe / thrown a shoe at her. What shoe? Did he stop to take off one of his own shoes to hit her? Or perhaps when he went to talk to her, she tried to hit him with her shoe? After all, many women will remove high heeled shoes for driving. He claimed he was acting in self defence so presumably he told the court what he was claiming he was defending himself from, but that is not reported. Did she try to hit him with the shoe which perhaps he took off her and later threw back at her. Did she say something to provoke him? What caused him to lose the plot? We simply don't know the answers to any of these questions. Let's be clear. None of the unknowns I have outlined can possibly excuse Calder's behaviour, but they may help explain it and may influence the sentencing decision. I would expect the club will have far more detail about the incident than we will ever know. I hope the club will make a statement tomorrow but I would also expect them not to rush to making any decisions other than a suspension until after sentencing.

I’m absolutely gutted by this news. He’s been terrific this season but a moment of utter madness has put his career in real jeopardy. It’s a huge blow to the club and to him personally, but one can’t imagine how terrifying it must have been for the young woman being attacked like that by an out of control young man. Personally I don’t think one moment of madness should end a promising career. This is a very serious incident but other players have done worse and resumed careers. I would agree that suspension until sentencing is an appropriate immediate course of action and then the club will need to decide what to do in the light of the sentencing decision.

County took the lead against the run of play and immediately the young lads started a Caley chant. Two minutes later Oakley stuck the ball in the back of the net. That's what proper support does for you.

Are you worried you might drop a clanger?

There's another thread on draws. Below is what I wrote on that. "Someone asked on another thread whether 5 draws in a row was some kind of record. Now we have 6 in a row so I did a quick Google search. It appears that the record for consecutive draws in the history of the Scottish league is 7. A record held by St Johnstone. A draw against County would see us equal that and, of course, break our own record for games unbeaten. On a less positive note, 6 draws means we are also 6 games without a win. Our record winless streak is just 12 games so that is one record we don't want to get any closer to. In the English league, the record is 8 consecutive draws. Several teams share that record, most recently Swansea in the Championship in 2008/9. I don't know about anyone else, but I thought the record might be a bit more than that." So yesterday I believe we equalled the all time Scottish record for consecutive draws as well as beating our unbeaten run record which now stands at 23.

What do you mean by “such a team”? It was a derby game and you can expect no quarter to be given. I didn’t see anything particularly underhand in the way County played. I have seen several teams this season at the TCS which have bent the rules a lot more than County. I thought it was a thoroughly enjoyable game played with passion but in a generally good spirit. A great advert for Championship football and a good game for some good natured banter with opposition fans after the game.

I would have taken a draw before the game but gutted we didn't win that. We were the better side and showed a lot more desire but didn't quite get the breaks going our way. Great team effort. Keep that up and we should break our run of draws with a win next time up.

In my book nothing merits abuse. It is simply wrong in any case, but the tragedy of it is that abuse of one's own team's players is counter productive. It puts additional pressure on players who are probably only too well aware that things aren't going great for them in the particular match. When things go wrong, they need support and encouragement. Abuse will not help them play better. It is maybe worth reflecting briefly on what provokes some folk to be abusive. One is poor play and the other is attitude, but in both it can all be very subjective and misplaced. Take Liam Polworth on Tuesday night who again came in from some stick from the North Stand. On a couple of occasions in the first half he was shaping to play a cute ball forward into space and it looked as though the intended recipient of the pass was running into the space behind the defender. But on both occasions the player pulled wide into more obvious (but less dangerous) space and Polworth had to adjust very late with the result that one pass went straight to a defender and the other went tamely out of play. Of course, on both occasions some of the crowd were on Polworth's back, but it wasn't really his fault. In the 2nd half there was an occasion when he tried to get well forward but the ball didn't reach him and he ended up beyond the goal line. Dunfermline moved the ball forward quickly and Polworth was last getting back. One person in particular was berating him for being lazy in a particularly foul mouthed way, but Polworth had put in good effort throughout the game and is entitled to catch his breath from time to time. He's not Mo Farah. And shouting at Jordan White is not going to suddenly make him able to jump 6" higher than he can.

Unusually, Polworth was substituted yesterday. I don't know what the reason was but I thought he had a reasonable game. Unless he has picked up an injury, there is no way the manager is going to drop him for the derby game. I'd go for ICT_Stew's starting line up

Someone asked on another thread whether 5 draws in a row was some kind of record. Now we have 6 in a row so I did a quick Google search. It appears that the record for consecutive draws in the history of the Scottish league is 7. A record held by St Johnstone. A draw against County would see us equal that and, of course, break our own record for games unbeaten. On a less positive note, 6 draws means we are also 6 games without a win. Our record winless streak is just 12 games so that is one record we don't want to get any closer to. In the English league, the record is 8 consecutive draws. Several teams share that record, most recently Swansea in the Championship in 2008/9. I don't know about anyone else, but I thought the record might be a bit more than that. Another record drawing sequence was in the 4th qualifying round of the FA cup in 1971 when Alvechurch, an amateur side local to where I lived, played Oxford City. In those days there were no penalty shoot outs so if the tie was undecided after extra time in the replay, they had a further replay at a neutral venue - and so on. After the initial game was drawn, they then played out 4 further draws (including extra time) before the tie was finally decided at Villa Park on the 6th time of asking. Alvechurch scraped through 1-0. I was at the 2nd replay at St Andrews - a hard fought goalless draw. That's one record which (fortunately) can never be broken.

Perhaps because he's scored twice as many goals for us than any other player and only 3 players in the Championship have scored more?

The team has just equalled the club record for the number of league games undefeated (22) and moved back into the play off places. It's a great achievement. Yet some of the "support" choose to boo the team at the end and to hurl abuse at our leading scorer who happened to score the 2nd equaliser tonight. It can't exactly encourage players to want to play for us if that is the kind of "support" fans give. Of course the recent draws are frustrating and we've lacked penetration going forward, but you don't go 22 games unbeaten if you are a poor side. The players themselves were clearly gutted not to have got a win from the game tonight. Perhaps if some of the folk who were constantly on the players' backs all night had shown a bit of support instead, then the players may have felt less pressured and played better as a result.

Those that don't go will be wishing they had when we emerge victorious after a 6-5 thriller.

We appear to have become rather too cautious recently. It is as though subconsciously the manager and team feel the need to keep the unbeaten run going as the priority. Perhaps also, the caution is because they know that with our difficulty in scoring, conceding at the other end will make it that much harder to get anything out of the game. But let's keep a bit of perspective here. Whilst we have played better as a team under Robbo than we are just now, we are still getting forward and creating chances. According to the BBC stats, we had more attempts on goal on Saturday than County did in their thumping of Morton. Less of ours were on target, of course, and perhaps we are having attempts on goal when better options aren't on, or the quality of the strike is poorer. Either way, we are getting in the right area and with a bit more quality or confidence in the box I feel the goals are not far away. Unfortunately, the current results and style of play are not going to bring extra fans to games. Instead, they will lead to a slow trend the other way. We need to get fans through the gate to increase the revenue for the club. We need to be bolder and to attack with a bit more pace and more directness. We need players taking defenders on and taking a few more risks. Even if it doesn't result in a better points per game ratio, at least we will be better entertained.

Agree. Better attacking players, like Billy Mckay not only find space for themselves, they create space for others by drawing defenders away from areas that players like Doran would be looking to run into. I think that is one of the reasons that our midfield as a whole is contributing little to the goal tally.

But we're not drawing all our games. We are winning some too, which is why we are in promotion play off territory and not relegation play off territory. Of course, we should be winning more and scoring more than we have been, but that is because we don't have a striker on a good run or midfielders chipping in with a few. We all know that strikers tend to blow hot and cold and it is often something quite intangible that sparks a good run. But with a solid defence, even a modest improvement in front of goal would turn draws into wins and see us comfortably in the promotion play off places. It has often been said that strikers win matches but defenders win championships. Defensively we have been pretty sound having conceded only 6 goals in the league in 10 games. It is good that we have not lost games where we are having difficulty finding the net. There are games where we have come away with a point more than we might have, and our opponents have been restricted to one point rather than 3. That is something to be positive about. Of course, it would be much more positive if we could turn some of those draws into wins.

People seem to be forgetting that Daniel started against Dunfermline in the Challenge Cup. If I recall, he started brightly enough but rather fell out of the game after that. I feel he is still best used as a impact sub at this stage of his career. Knocking in goals for the under 18s will give him both game time and confidence, and he will also get valuable experience being part of the 1st team match day set up with regular appearances as sub. I would worry that giving him a run in the starting XI might just knock the stuffing out of him. It is all very well to talk about Rooney (W) and Rashford but they are the exception. It is far more common to see players burst on the scene as teenagers then drift into obscurity. Our other strikers may not have set the heather on fire but their strike rate isn't bad. Having been awarded the goal on Saturday, White now has 3 and Oakley 2, both at a rate of roughly a goal every 2 games. We'd take that at the end of the season. We've still not seen a lot of Austin but he strikes me as the more composed and natural finisher and could well be the surprise packet of the season. It's true we haven't scored many goals overall this season but a part of that is the lack of goals from attacking midfield. Polworth, Walsh, Doran and Calder have just one goal between them. Calder's not had much game time but we really need more goals from the others. But back to young Daniel. He burst onto the scene last year and as a result I think some people's expectations for him for this season are unreasonable. He is clearly an extremely promising talent but he is far from the finished article. He needs nurturing and I think the way the manager is handling him is spot on.

If that's the case, then the average Celtic player gets paid more than our entire squad. Such are the inequalities of the modern game.

Indeed it would. Who would score our goals?

We're drawn away against Edinburgh City. Potential banana skin against an ambitious club who are going well in Division 2 but a match we simply have to win.