Scotty

eh, no ???? Butcher may be banned from the touchline but he will still be pulling the strings ! However, lets hope his view from the stand helps (if he can see through the fog).

its alright .... Pars just went ahead 3-2 now so the next equalise will probably be County !!!

Dunfermline EQUALISE (against County) 2-2 now

Partick equalise V Airdrie

Pars equalise V County

they were added to the top of the page a couple of minutes before you posted.

Airdrie 1-0 Partick Dundee 0-1 Ayr

we cant actually show them until they are published ..... I am not a feckin mindreader. if you can find them somewhere feel free to post the lineup !

if you wanna bicker guys - do it via PM. keep this thread on topic.

.style2 {text-align: center;}.style6 {border: 1px solid #FFFF99;text-align: center;}.style8 {text-align: center;border-style: solid;border-width: 0;}.style10 {color: #FFFF00}.style12 {font-size: 18pt;font-weight: bold;} THE MATCH Inverness CT -V- Raith Rovers PREVIEW Caledonian Stadium 3:00 PM ...follow us on Twitter @ http://twitter.com/ICTOnline ...discuss it during the game in the CHATROOM Live Match Coverage AUDIO: BBC Open All Mics (browser) BBC Open All Mics (Real Player or Windows Media Player) Moray Firth Radio (browser) [uK/VPN ONLY] TEXT UPDATES: BBC Sportbox SKY TEAM LINEUPS

will pin this thread so that we can keep it at the top untyil the game kicks off

other than "emergency goalkeepers", SPL clubs cant bring players in on loan outside the transfer window as far as I know.

Maybe Darren could negotiate the player contracts too (for the good ones we want to hang onto at least) :angry:

Its nice to be able to say something nice about the club and although ordering different merchandise for the shop (even if it doesnt arrive on time because we have a crap supplier) and then looking at addressing things like the quality of the catering wont win us points on the field, it does at least prove that Darren and his team have been listening to what fans are saying or asking for and are trying to make things a little better. Well done.

We really need to bin Errea if they continually LIE to us about the fact that the stock has actually been sent out in the first place. This is not the first time. They have (allegedly) done it for years ... but it should be the LAST time. Maybe our lawyers can stop working on the Niculae matter for a few minutes and figure out just how (or if) Errea are in breach of contract. There must be something in there about timely delivieries and/or accuracy of information supplied to the club. Poor Darren ordered this stuff in more or less his first day or two after Mike left and like others before him is getting LIED to by Errea. By my reckoning, they have now said it was dispatched on at least 3 different dates and yet it still sits in the factory (allegedly). As I said above, the lack of delivery of this stock, that contains new lines that fans have continually asked for, is costing the club money and we should be taking Errea to task on this rather than sitting back like we have always done, tugging on our forelocks and being greatful for even the most meagre bit of service from these clowns. They need to be held accountable for their own inadequacy or we need to get them to **** ... one or the other.

Not sure when our contract with Errea is next up for discussion but I hope the club actually take the discussion to them in several ways ....... I dont know if it still happens, but for years we had to have a bond in place at the start of each season that would actually guarantee payment to Errea before they would ship stock to us and even then most of our stuff has deadlines months ahead of when it should be and long lead times for the actual delivery. they have - in my opinion - always treated us like something nasty on the bottom of their designer Italian shoes. Next time, if we actually stay with Errea (something I would personally prefer not to do anyway), I think we should forcefully put forward some terms of our own rather than meekly agree to the crap service we are getting now. 1. We have been customers for many years and assuming there is no on-going and consistent failure to pay our bills, the bond should be scrapped. 2. Deadlines for ordering stock should be reduced. We currently have to order several months in advance, especially when we change our strip. I can understand a decent lead time at the start of the season as they do have to setup for a new design but not as long as it is now, especially as our strip is one of their default designs. 3. If we are to acceopt a long lead time when the new strip comes out, then the club should have a larger say in that strip design. Although we ultimately choose our own strips, they seem to be from the default ranges that will appear in the next year's catalogue. The club should be provided with the PSD files for the next season and allowed a bit more creative freedom in the design. 4. Deliveries are random at best and it seems our orders are dispatched in a very haphazard way as and when they feel like it. The club must insist on guaranteed delivery times. If we order by day "X" we will receive by day "Y". If delivery is not received by then, then Errea are liable for a penalty for each day it is late. Perhaps we should send our own club shop staff out to Italy to show them how it should be done ! This order is a very good example of the s*** service we have come to accept. Darren ordered more stock in November and as per the release, we expected it by the start of December. Every day it fails to arrive - especially at this time of the year - the club are losing sales as people get very nervous about waiting until the last minute and may just go and buy something else (from someone else) as a present for the person who was going to get some ICT gear.

any truth in the rumour that Balti pies will also be on the menu ?

Wood just equalised for County

for those who cant work in euros (like me) ?242,500.00 = ?211,918.81

Personally, I doubt there was an "error" on the contract, we have been told that it was a standard SPL contract ..... it is the interpretation of the contract at the time of termination that is the crux of the matter. As I said above, I do believe (unfortunately) that our club were the instigators of the transfer based on comments made whilst he was still an ICT player and that they are clinging onto the fact that Marius chose Dinamo over other clubs - that may (or may not) have made higher offers - to try and prove that he was the instigator. It doesnt wash as far as I am concerned as he would be in a position to negotiate personal terms with any club that had a bid accepted and could quite simply have said no and waited out his contract if he didnt fancy any of them. Quite a number of fans on here are part owners of the company by virtue of being shareholders. I dont actually see anyone asking to see this or any other contract, merely to have the elected officials of the club, who are there to represent those shareholders by running the club in a professional manner, offer up an explanation of what appears to have been yet another complete cluster**** in our basic admin.

I think the biggest mistakes we made might have been faxing Dinamo confirming the transfer and then admitting Marius was due money. Reading through all the claims and counter claims it is evident that the club were happy to let Marius go as our major shareholder stated we were not sure we could afford him. Whether we could or could not afford him, or whether Marius actually wanted to go was immaterial, that statement alerted clubs that we were in the market to offload him. Some might call that instigation. A little grey area for me, and what I believe the club may be clinging onto this as their defence is that we allegedly received multiple offers for the player and the Dinamo one wasnt the highest. However the player preferred Dinamo over the others and may have indicated this to the club. As he would have to agree personal terms with any new club, and could have just sat out the remainder of his contract if he didnt like the deal being put in front of him to go to a different club, that is not instigation, it is just preference. I can believe the club would somehow try to negotiate something that would allow them to take the difference between the Dinamo offer and the highest offer out of Marius' cut of the fee but the fact remains that they did not get anything on paper showing an agreement between club and player so any discussion that may or may not have taken place matters not a jot. In the absence of any written agreement, they dont have a leg to stand on. They then compounded this mistake by faxing Dinamo to complete the transfer thus making any further talks between ICT and the player unlikely. Bottom line, the player didnt waive his fee and the club accepted that fact by faxing Dinamo to get the transfer completed. I can also believe that Grassa's comments after the transfer was complete were meant to refer to the remainder of the signing-ON fee that Marius was still due, but unfortunately those were not the words he used he simply said Marius was due some money and that gave the player more ammunition to prove his assertion that he was due the remainder of his signing on and his exit fees. Evidently FIFA agreed !!! Based on these assumptions - which I concede could be wildly incorrect - I can see how the club might think they have a case but the simple fact is that they have nothing to support any of it and the player has consistently told the same story over the whole transfer. So just pay the man if you havent already and put it to bed.

I think CaleyD once posted that even with Marius' payout we did not lose out financially over the course of his contract. Its unlikely we will ever know that for sure though as this will be buried deep in the accounts somewhere. However, in the whole Marius saga my own untrained opinion is that we did indeed lose out in several ways. We may not have made a financial loss over his overall contract but we certainly didnt maximise any profit and we also took a massive PR hit. We made the mistake of confusing Euros and Pounds. We (presumably) paid for legal counsel all the way along from the moment we decided to dispute his payout until (and beyond) the FIFA decision. That will not have been cheap. We took a hit based on the exchange rate between Euro/Pounds when we should have paid him and the present time. By letting it get as far as FIFA we now look like a club that is hard to deal with (or at the very least, not straightforward) not only in Scotland or the UK, but also all over Europe. Regardless of who is telling the true story (and we have done that discussion to death), a very public wrangle over player contracts will not have endeared us to agents or players alike when we are looking for signings.

This is a hard one, and as much as I like to be comfortable and dont like change, perhaps it is needed ? MANAGEMENT In terms of the management team, I am not advocating change. I have been consistent in terms of what I have said about Butcher (and Brewster before him). You need to give them a certain amount of time - at least one full season - before passing judgement. Do I like how the season is going? No of course I dont.... but might part of that be down to my own arrogance in assuming we should walk some of the games we play rather than what we all know to be true which is that the 1st division is full of sides that can compete with the most of the SPL. We have no divine right to expect a win and some of us forget that. This is not "Football Manager" on the computer, it is real life and there are no cheat codes or game editors !!! We are working with less cash, less staff and less of a squad so some leeway is required. Having said that, there are things I think Butcher needs to get sorted. First and foremost seems to be our ability to only play for 45 minutes out of the 90. Whether its a great first half or a great second, we dont seem to be able to be consistent over a full 90 and having watched some of the highlights posted on club websites or youtube the football seems scrappy at best and at times pretty woeful. We should be doing better here. I would also question the desire of one or two players? Are they actually playing for the shirt or are they going through the motions? They each have to take a good look at themselves in the mirror and answer the question as to whether they are doing the best job they can. COMMERCIAL/OFFICE In terms of the commercial/office staff I would say there is virtually nothing left to cut !!! We have lost some very good members of staff and some not so good but overall I think we are less effective due to these cuts even if they were necessary. One positive for me is the promotion of Darren into Mike's post. I am not going to run Mike down but I think it is safe to say that he was not a "people person". I do believe that he was very good at certain parts of his job but most of that effectiveness may have been inward looking rather than outward facing so his relationship with the fans was at best tempestuous. Darren, on the other hand, is a commercial guy so it has been his job for a number of years to try and go face to face with people to earn the club money. He may not be everybody's cup of tea, but he will do for me. Perhaps I am biased but one of the instant changes we saw with Darren was a willingness to talk to fans through this website as well as the official one. We have always been willing - even when we are not happy with the club - to promote, advertise or generally do whatever we can to work with them for the good of the club. At the end of the day we are all ICT fans and we all want whats best for the club in our own opinion. The club may not like some of the views expressed by fans on here at times, and indeed some of it may go over the top but I firmly believe that they created a rod for their own backs over the last 5 years by treating the fans like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed on ****). I lost count of the number of times I asked them to feed us positive little stories as well as the major ones so we could emphasise the positive things about the club along with any negatives, but it seems no-one could be bothered or worse still were expressly told not to speak to CTO ! I welcome Darren's appointment and whilst he may not have the accountancy qualifications that Mike had, he does have something else that is equally important to me. He has a desire to listen to the fans, engage with them, see what they want, or what they think can be improved, and work with club groups such as the Supporters Trust or others to try and bring about those changes. Whilst he has no control over what happens on the park, I think we will see some positive news over the coming months in terms of the "matchday experience" or things like club shop (which we already know about - new merchandise due soon). DIRECTORS This is a toughie! Its not an easy job running a football club, and although every single one of us probably thinks we could do a better job, I severely doubt we could. Again, its the "Football Manager" factor. Great game, but it makes us all think we can do any job at a football club far better than the incumbents. We are, in the main, talking about very succesful, and astute businessmen here, and they didnt climb the corporate ladder or turn their firms into multi-million pound enterprises by being stupid so what is it that suddenly makes them incapable - in some peoples eyes - of running the business of a football club? The goldfish bowl effect perhaps? or the fact that the silence from them is deafening? I can honestly say that I did not really have cause to even raise an eyebrow during the club's initial 10 years of existence, and lauded DFS for bringing us back from the brink, however the last 5 years or so have seem to have raised more questions than answers including several that have yet to be answered or addressed - "Marius-gate", Savage/Sutherland war of words, Stadium Ownership, Brewster re-employment, Derogatory statements about supporters organisations, Robbo having to put the board on the spot and ask if they really wanted to be promoted .... etc. Again, we tried to let them have their say or at least to address points that fans were asking about - via Boardroom Banter - but for the second time that fell by the wayside as each issue raised more comments about the questions that were avoided than those that were answered. I suggested at the inception of the second series of BB that not only should they answer fan questions but perhaps they should take a few minutes each month to emphasise things they were doing or even things where their hands were tied so that fans had a better understanding of how much time it took to perform duties and be enlightened about some of the stuff they had to deal with ( a sort of look inside the boardroom) but as you can see from the articles that was not forthcoming. So to summarise, I dont really call for a change in the personnel in any area. I think we have effected change in the commercial/office area already and a change in attitude elsewhere might be enough. I do however have a few things on my wishlist for ICT in the coming years. Get everyone pulling in the same direction. Fans are not the enemy because you dont like their opinions or because they say something critical. They are the lifeblood of the club and without them there is no club. Please realise this and work with them to effect positive change. Use every avenue at your disposal to talk, talk and talk again to fans. Whether it is through the supporters trust, the supporters club, the shareholder lists, the centenary club, a spot in the matchday programme or releases to the official or unofficial websites or all of the above .... start talking up the positives at the club. The negatives will be discussed, it is inevitable, but no-one talks about the positives unless the club give it a big-up first so as one of my old bosses used to say .... JFDI ! (just ******* do it). Dont treat everyone with suspicion. Some people offer to help the club in various ways because they are just regular supporters who dont have a bulging bank balance and want to feel like they are doing their bit. In the last 6 or 7 years I have heard of DOZENS of instances where offers of help have been refused because the motives were regarded as suspicious. There is a word for this ... its called paranoia ! Sort out the club's PR. The club's PR has been a joke almost from day 1. That may have been acceptable as we climbed the divisions but now, with fans having experienced the SPL and having tasted the bitterness of relegation for the first time, it is crucial we get this done properly. TB is very good at PR even in the face of mediocre results but the club itself is still lagging way behind. Be more open about things. Too often over the last 6/7 years we have had 'edicts' about how things are or how they will be. Talk to us not at us. Encourage investment. I was really excited when Savage came along. I thought his ideas and Sutherland's prudence would result in good times for ICT. Unfortunately personalities seemed to get in the way. County are advertising for investors, and Dundee did so to great effect so maybe we should be looking at that too? If the powers that be at the club would be willing to allow some of our unissued shares to be taken up without getting into a p****** contest? I am sure I can think of other things on my wishlist but bottom line is that I want the club to be seen by its fans as something positive, by other people as a good side that we should be proud to be associated with, and that we should be plying our trade in the top league in Scotland on merit.

nope - just watched the youtube video linked above and my thoughts were wrong ...... its definitely a 2nd yellow - no mistake. he red cards the QOS player than puts the red back in his top left pocket, then he goes to Duncan, takes a card out of his top right and shows him the yellow closely followed by the red from his left.. the definite "second yellow shuffle" ........ so it would appear that in this universe only Alan Muir knows that Russell Duncan received a first yellow.

That makes sense - the ref made (another) mistake and showed the wrong card, when he had intended to show both a straight red .... it also makes the reason for booking on sportbox site make sense too as "violent behaviour" is not a yellow card offence it is a red card one.