Scotty

Maybe there is no other news right now though 'D' ? Butcher has just returned from holiday and discussions are no doubt ongoing between himself, Grassa, players and agents ..... I too would like to hear some positive news about the playing side of things but lets face it we are not going to get the minutiae of the budget other than knowing its a lot less than last year. We have already heard that players are being targetted and Grassa more or less said there is no money to spend on anything but wages which in turn suggests we are not going to send the club into deep debt in an attempt to bounce strraight back so most of the valid points you raised have actually been addressed albeit indirectly.

its not really "jobs for the boys" ... its an honorary title, and despite his run-ins with certain groups or organisations in the recent past, personally I believe it is one he has earned.

Its the squad numbers from last year I think. The provider of the ICT website uses a third party company/program to do the squad lists and they have likely just taken off the ones who are now in squad lists for another team such as Vigurs, Wood, Black and Fraser.

I would rather the board left that to Terry Butcher ! I have no problem whatsoever in appointing DFS as Honorary President of ICT. I think we all acknowledge that Jock MacDonald deserved the title based on his long association with Highland Football and his influence in getting us into the senior leagues back in 1994. It is equally fitting that his successor as Honorary President is the man who came in a few years later, reversed our downward financial spiral, put a plan in place to get us to the premier league, achieved that goal, and then made it possible for 2 stands to be built in 45 days to bring that SPL football to Inverness. We might not agree with everything he does or has done, we might not have liked his comments re: the trust during last season when feelings on all sides were running high, and some may question his motives in being the ICT benefactor, but when you cut away the individual issues that people have with the man, the simple fact of the matter is that if he had not come into the club when he did we would never have reached the SPL and the only bounce we might ever have been talking about was the one from the third or second division up to the division above for brief spells !!! For the more cynical amongst you - maybe this reason will work as an alternative: his shareholding ensures that he will always have a huge say so he might as well have a title to go along with it.

judging by the responses (except yours) they certainly seem far more accessible, and likely to have more ICT fans at them, than any of our pre-season friendlies of the last 3 or 4 years in Italy and Denmark B) In addition to keeping costs down as I mentioned in my previous post have you also stopped to consider that ICT always get slated (by some) for not reaching out to communities in the North or North East of Scotland yet here you are slating them for playing friendlies in the North and North East of Scotland where there is the potential that some HFL fans might take them as their "big team" !!! There are plenty of things we can (and will) legitimately moan and groan about in the ICT world but it seems that some just have to moan and groan about everything whether it is worth it or not !

non-ICT kits split off into a topic of their own .......... please post them there not here. http://community.caleythistleonline.com/in...showtopic=13410

Its no different to the fare we got before we reached the SPL .... you have to cut the cloth to suit and I would far rather see the team get a run out against other Scottish sides than waste money that might be used for wages on a jaunt to Italy or Denmark !!! If you look at the SPL, it seems that half of the sides are taking a week in Ireland ... only one or two are going further afield !

its amazing that some people cant be arsed doing the tiniest of searches .... if you did, you would find a link to our shirts/strips page on this site and would know that our shirt makers have been Matchwinner (94/95) --> Le Coq Sportif (95/96 - 98/99) --> Errea (99/00 - present) http://caleythistleonline.com/shirts.html

stokes had never made an appearance for Arsenal either .... before going to Falkirk and scoring something like 14 goals in 16 games ..... If he proves to be good enough - and some of the anecdotal evidence suggests he might be - then he is old enough !!!

This was the post I was referring to . I've even made it easier for you by giving you a little massive clue to help you along. DC stop being so bloody pedantic. I clarified and said the first 5 were either confirmed or the leading candidates ... I know Hughes was already named, but I was listing the whole merry go round not just one job ! Keep going though .... keep going ... the "sine die" trophy hasnt been handed out for a while now

DC , if you have nothing to add to the thread content, dont bother posting just to abuse someone. You are on a 90% warning level and it will take very little for that to go to 100%.

didnt realise that ... just plucked a name out of the air for that one ..... the first 5 are either confirmed or strongly rumoured to be #1 choices but we all know anything could happen :huh:

cant see strachan going to Celtic ... he just left there ! Here's my guess Hughes --> Hibernian Pressley --> Falkirk McGhee --> Aberdeen Mowbray --> Celtic McPherson --> Motherwell McCall --> St Mirren

There's probably a good chance he will get more time to succeed because he is an "Aberdeen Man" from the glory days. However, I agree with Smee, the downside of coming from that era is that some fans will be blinded by it and expect an instant return to those heady days of the 80s and good manager as he is, he is no Alex Ferguson !

The word Livingston springs to mind ... or Gretna .... and we both know they ended (or might end) in tears. Dundee have also not had their problems to seek with previous regimes that splashed the cash !!! But as I dont know much if anything about the new director who seems to have all the cash, maybe HeilanDee can fill us in ? Seems like there is no news because .... there is no news. Reading what has been in the media so far, our offers are still on the table and the players havent signed them yet .... nor have they declined them and signed elsewhere. It might be because some of them are still on holiday but the longer it goes without guys moving on, the more hopeful I am we might keep at least some of them. I actually agree with Grassa when he said that the Setanta issue might help us as quite a few clubs will have to re-evaluate wage structures in terms of existing and new signings but we already did that when we released so many and didnt make renewed contract offers to others.

I may be showing my ignorance of Asian-Pacific football but don't Australia regularly put 20+ goals past some of these teams in WCQ matches ?

Probably the best post (other than my own of course) that I have read on this thread. I would however say that the establishment also includes fans and hopefully we can use this relegation to Div1 to once again start pulling in the same direction. Nope. that sums up IHE in a nutshell. In real life he is an intelligent man with a responsible job. In football life he is a passionate ICT fan who sometimes asks the questions that need asked but not always in a diplomatic way, sometimes tries to wind us all up, sometimes posts humorous interludes that crack you up and sometimes goes over the top ...... [i know I said I was done with this thread but the "establishment" quote from AF deserved a reply]

Charles, if what you are reporting is a truly accurate account of the mindset from behind the scenes, then I find it truly sad that it has basically validated much of what I said in my posts up to now and only served to confirm the void that does exist between fans and officials of this club. I accept that it is hard for staff/players to read disparaging remarks about themselves on an Internet forum, and if you go back up the page and read post 18 you will see I said as much long before you posted your retort. However, if I can take one specific example, the broad range of users on here can also heap praise where and when it is due too. Andrina and the shop/ticket office staff are a prime example of this. There might be the odd grumble, but that is usually drowned out at least tenfold by other users as she and the other staff involved in this area of the club consistently perform to a far higher standard than would be regarded as merely acceptable. I would also suggest to you that those same people who - from your post - appear to be tarring the entire website with the same derogatory brush because we will not censor the views of opinionated posters (regardless of whether we agree with those opinions or not), are likely the same people who, to my face, complimented us on "effective management" of particularly controversial subjects surrounding the likes of Richie Hart, Ross Tokely, Steve Paterson, and more recently Graeme Bennett and Craig Brewster. We didnt do this to stifle debate or ingratiate ourselves with the club, we did it because the subjects crossed our line in the sand that has been there for a lot longer than the 5 years you reckon this site has been going downhill. One thing you, and the club perhaps need to realise, is that in terms of Football Fora, this one is MILD in the extreme !!! I would urge you to look around at some others .... I frequent sites like Pie and Bovril, BigSoccer, and 3 Toronto FC ones as a normal member and every single one of them has things that make me cringe, and would be deleted without a trace on here from a "webmaster" point of view (especially P&B which is the biggest Football Forum in Scotland). You dont even have to look at Football ones .... pluck any subject out of the air and find a forum about it and you will see far worse than you see on here if it is not moderated effectively. However, lets be clear, moderation ≠ censorship. I think I have been honest in everything I have said in this thread, as I am in most threads, and having had a somewhat privileged (or painful at times) viewpoint over the years where I was basically "in the middle" between fans and officials, I think I can even now still see both sides of the argument. I had previously acknowledged some of the charges you levied at this site in general before you posted them, and I know some of our supporters can have radical opinions (which we dont all agree with) but it appears there can be no acknowledgement of the fact that mistakes can also be made on the other side of the fence. I just want to make one final point and then I think I am pretty much done with this thread (although I do reserve the right to change my mind). You posted: "... a cabal of discontents, most of whom do not even have the moral courage to use their real names, continue to snipe at your best efforts and to undermine your honest attempts to do your best for Inverness football". I would say TOUCHE !!! All I have ever tried to do with this site in the last 15 years is to provide a platform for fans of Inverness Caledonian Thistle FC to voice their opinions. I have also endured constant sniping at my best efforts, sometimes from site users but frequently from a somewhat different cabal of discontents. discontents who are faceless and nameless (or so they would like to think) but snipe behind your back or try to plant seeds of doubt with others about your motives whilst smiling at you or shaking your hand. These are not site users (although some might be - and also going under an anonymous pseudonym that we will not divulge), these are people associated with ICT over the years, or in some cases still associated with ICT. Does it bother me? If I am honest, I will say yes it does, but only sometimes as you develop a thick skin in this environment. Do I let it stop me from trying to "do my best for Inverness Football" ? No I do not, and I will not. I have tremendous respect for a lot of people at the club, not least our former chairman, as well as Kenny and Grassa but that respect will not stop me from having an opinion. Hopefully they respect me enough to allow me that opinion.

????? :021: :021: :P Calder Mann Teasdale Christie Wilson Urquhart Subs - Noble, Hercher, Stewart Manager: Pele

It would make for an interesting debate ..... especially if those teams were deducted 10 points for going into administration ... I am guessing they would be deducted 10 from the start of next season though rather than have it applied to their season 08/09 figure even if the problem relates to 08/09. Equally interesting would be the debate if a club actually did go to the wall ... during the season, a club going to the wall would automatically be deemed the relegated team and no-one would go down. Again I am guessing this would not happen as there is probably some date attached to these things so it would mean two would come up and we would still go down. Ach well - didnt want to sound like a Partick fan anyway

Couldnt agree more. :) :025: :025:

alternatively, just bookmark http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/ & http://www.highland-news.co.uk/ this one is also good too as it is an aggregator for many sites: http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Sport/Football/...edonian+Thistle and of course the P&J has actually been decent too http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/SectionPa...JCaleyThistleFC

re-read my (long) post above - I think I made my opinions clear in there. In the first series of articles the board were pro-active and wanted to do this, in the second set of articles one or two of them, realising the ever deepening gulf between boardroom and fans felt they needed to do it in an effort to stem that tide. A lot of trust has been lost along the way, not necessarily trust in me personally or in Don or others who help run this site, but the site in general. When you add the increased interest in Internet comments from the media now as opposed to 5 years ago and the goldfish bowl effect of being in the SPL as well as "media rules" about what a club official can and cannot say then it all adds up to a somewhat more sterile experience. Again, I refer to my answer above. I know things are avoided ... thats just the nature of the beast. I dont delete much from the BB question threads each month so what is not answered is there for all to see and indeed, in the first few articles I submitted everything including those I knew would not be answered and the club answered to the effect that "we cannot/will-not answer that question". In the club's defence, I have to say that it was made quite clear to myself and Don when we sat down with Kenny and Grassa on my last trip home and entered into a committment that we would all try to work to make it a success that there were areas that were "off-limits". These were not new areas, they were the same areas that were defined for the first set of articles. Confidential business information, personnel issues, contracts, wages and stuff like that. Maybe it is more noticeable in the current set of articles as people have an increased sense of entitlement in thinking they have a right to know that information. As for people reacting to comments ... its only natural. I have a fairly thick skin after doing this for 15 years but there are sometimes personal comments that have me raging. I usually go away for a couple of hours and calm down as opposed to posting in haste - although its not unknown for the odd rant to slip through :) !!! People at the club are no different. If every aspect of your working life is called into question, or your ability to do your job is questioned then you are not going to look favourably on the medium that allows that. The difference to my mind is that its not the site thats the villain, its the individual poster(s) that people should be looking at. We only provide the medium for supporters to have their say or to have a rant and we do try to stick to a set of rules that have evolved over 15 years to try and protect things from going too far and to allow both sides of the argument to emerge. This is an extremely difficult balancing act and there are times you just cannot win. We get plenty of compliments from certain people (with experience of other clubs and their forums) who think this site is one of the best run football forums on the net, but we also get comments from the "old school" who loathe and despise anything related to so-called "new media" ... many of them havent even viewed it yet they crucify its very existence. On the fan side, we are - to some - very balanced, yet to others we are the Nazis who will stop at nothing to crush opinion or thwart free speech. At the end of the day, we are here, whether (some) people like it or not, and we will continue to apply (and modify if necessary) our site values and rules that have evolved over the years. We will continue to take every opportunity to work with the club when they choose to work alongside us and will offer any assistance we can (an offer that has always been on the table) but we will also continue to give fans a platform to discuss all that is good, bad or indifferent about ICT. For those who think this site is the "big bad wolf", all I would say to you is go and have a look round the Internet at some of the other football forums .... not just in Scotland, but all over. Have a look at Pie and Bovril, have a look at BigSoccer, have a look at some of the Toronto ones (red patch boys, usector etc) ... On may of those sites you may be aghast at how lax their forum rules are and you will see that we do try to keep things within the realms of civility. The users of football forums tend to be the diehards with strong opinions. We actually prune our membership on here to "active" members. Basically, it means that if you havent logged in in 6 months you are deleted, if you havent logged in in 3 months you are classed as inactive and not counted in our total of "active members". Because of this, I can accurately say that we tend to have around 1500 active members at any one time. Of that 1500 - which is a good bit less than half of our diehard support - quite a few are opposition fans, quite a few might be players, officials or journalists, and quite a few are "lurkers" who regularly read the comments but do not post. I would estimate the number of people who actually post at somewhere in the few hundred mark and most of us (myself included) are quite opinionated. I have always maintained that the membership here is not representative of our entire fanbase, but it is representative of a cross section of it ... in just the same way that the members of the Trust are, or the members of the Supporters club, or the regular Hospitality customers are. In some ways - and its kind of hard and maybe disloyal to say this - but part of me hopes that ICT take more than a year to get back up to the SPL. The SPL has been quite toxic in certain respects and a stint back in division 1 may make us realise that we all need to work together to achieve the results we all want. Perhaps a time out of the limelight will allow wounds to heal, will allow the club to return to their previous fan-focused outlook, and will allow fans to wind in that sense of entitlement, expectation or indignation that has grown over the last 5 years.

aye you are right ... maybe should just throw the towel in ......

I think we are all basically saying the same things here but with different slants ........ We all want ICT to do well (except the odd visitor from other clubs) We all have different expectations - some of us set the bar too high, some perhaps too low We all have different "tipping points" where its just not good enough and change has to happen. Because ICT is the most important part of the equation, I believe we all wanted CB to do well in both his first and second stints as manager. Some may have been against him as soon as he was re-appointed but they didnt want him to fail as that means ICT fail. Some were with him right up until the end as they thought he could weather the storm. At the end of the day we all have varying opinions on how his tenure went or when his reign should have been ended but thats history now and we move on. As far as Butcher is concerned, I think we can all see he started well and whether that is because he once again has Malpas by his side like he did at Motherwell, or because of the "bounce" who knows but ultimately the challenge he was presented with proved too big. He now has a chance to prove that he is capable and with our limited budget hopefully he can also use his name and contacts to pull some rabbits out of the hat in terms of loans or astute deals. If it is going pear shaped I am sure he will walk long before we call for his head but again, that will be because ICT are hurting so none of us should want that. Support the club, support the manager, support the team .... you know it makes sense !!!