Scotty

direct debit form now added to the first post in this thread as requested by some fans.

Maybe we should call him Juan instead of Brian now !!!

This is what you get when you order the Bobby Mann Platter

Cant disagree with what you say IHE. In a lot of your posts, especially more recently, JM has been coming through rather than his IHE alter-ego and that is when people should sit up and take notice. I certainly notice it and make a point to read and re-read posts over a few times when I think its JM rather than IHE !!! I believe I do know where you are coming from, and despite your sledgehammer approach at times, you have known for years that I respect your opinion. Despite the differences of opinion expressed on the boards, I think - with the odd exception - we are all in a bit of the same boat here ..... (HMS Sneck perhaps) we WANT to think the best about the club we WANT to think the best about the people who run it we WANT to think the best about the players we WANT to think the best about the managerial team but circumstances make that difficult. communication is dire between club and fans. You are spot-on. It is woeful indeed. In fact, it has been for about the last 7 years or so. In the preceding 8 years we were a smaller family and more trusting of each other, but with each passing year, less and less has been forthcoming until one day you get to a point where you become aware there are "sides" rather than a single entity and both "sides" seem to eye each other more warily as the seasons pass. I dont think we can ever go back to where we were 7 or 8 years ago, too much has been said (or not said) over the ensuing time period but maybe we can generate some positives while we are in division 1 by trying to repair some of the damage while we are out of the spotlight. If the club could improve communication (and by that extension, their PR) it would lessen the impact that even trivial matters seem to have on the support these days. Boardroom Banter has been mentioned recently as a feeble attempt at communication but as far as I am concerned, it is a start. A start borne about by you and by Gringo Jnr inspiring me to try again. I know it avoids some issues, I know some of the answers are generic, I know some people see it as a waste of time, but every structure needs to have a first brick and hopefully this can be the brick that allows us to build increased communication. Once the talking starts, the moaning reduces, once the moaning reduces and the reasons for those moans reduces, then and only then the trust levels can begin to increase (on both sides). I would like to see the club answer some of the questions more plainly in the coming season (like they used to) as I believe people will appreciate the honesty (they did used to admit to getting things wrong !!!). I also dont care if the club use BB to shamelessly self-promote the things they do. The articles should be part Q&A and part information about what is going on at the club .... we will be happy to promote all that is good about the club if they just open the door a little to allow that. We as fans also have some responsibilities too though ..... it cant all be one-sided. If we are to hope for the club to be honest, or to admit mistakes, then we cannot seek to crucify people for every decision that is made, nor can we display a sense of entitlement that is out of proportion. I am not saying we should sit down, shut up and be happy with our lot, but sometimes we can all go over the score in demanding "our rights". I know we have all highlighted decisions we think are wrong, with the Brewster & Niculae sagas in particular being the focal points of a lot of anger because of what it stirred up on all sides of the debate. I would say that spirited debate on subjects as important as that is fine, as are many other debates, but I would hazard a guess that some on here would argue whether it should be red blocks or blue blocks in the urinals and make it into a diplomatic incident .... as they say, "Don't sweat the petty things" (and dont pet the sweaty things). PS ... [off-topic] Its not just ICT that screw up their PR ... We have just experienced it over here with Toronto FC !!! They announced, at the end of a bad week where we had lost badly in Houston, lost to Vancouver in the Canadian championship (need to win 4-0 tonight in Montreal to win it outright), and had a few other things happening, that for no apparent reason, one of our games V New York was to be moved at short notice to last week instead of August (giving people less than 2 weeks notice to re-arrange schedules). There was a bit of an outcry about that and then the rumours started about why. Eventually it was announced that the reason for the date change was to accomodate a friendly against Real Madrid on the date we were supposed to have played NY. the announcement came from Madrid and not Toronto !!! Then it became clear that this game was not going to be part of our season ticket package (which included one as yet un-named international friendly match) as TFC had to lay real grass down at a cost of $250,000 for this one game. People were not happy and protests started. Eventually TFC released prices for the game. My seat has a face value of roughly $23 for each game ... my seat for the Madrid game? $140 ... almost 7 times the normal price to watch a game where "a few first team players may play for 45 minutes". A loyalty discount brings the price down to $125 but that is still 6X face value for my seat. The end result? A LOT of season ticket holders are boycotting the RM game especially as there is no committment that the likes of KaKa or Ronaldo will even make the trip. Incidentally, after all these announcements, the club then quietly announced the season ticket friendly would be against Argentinian side River Plate...... a lot of less than happy fans when that came out too. NOW, if TFC had said to us 3 or 4 weeks ago "Your friendly will be against River Plate on this date, and then after a few days more had announced that "we have to move the NY game to <date> because we have negotiated a game with Real Madrid and the only date available is the original NY date" the comments would have been far less scathing. People would understand that the cost meant we would have to pay a premium, they would understand why the original game was moved, they would understand why the "loyalty discount" (their words, not mine) was only $15 and most would buy tickets. The information that they gave out would be exactly the same ... it is just the timing and order of it that would have made sure of a different reaction !

no worries, I will email Andrina and ask if she has a blank one she can scan/email.

no there are three camps ......as always there are the "doom-sayers" as you call them, there are the "rosy-garden" brigade and finally the "wait and see mob" which I would say is more in the middle ... I am part of the wait and see mob I think ... I am so confused by conflicting pieces of unofficial information that I have received that it is inconceivable for me to do anything but wait for the official word so I can process all the little snippets alongside the official line and see which scenario makes most sense to me. In the end, I think the truth will - as usual - be somewhere in the middle. The club will tell some, some of what we have heard from others will be true and there will also be embellishments or bulls*** on all sides ....

if you can scan it (or the club can email one to us) we can make it available for download .....

I cant believe so many people are willing to jump to conclusions about the contents of the inveitable restructuring that has taken place at ICT before we know all the details ! Yes, I know it has been a particularly bad year just past, I agree that there are a lot of things that went on that give us cause for concern, upset or anger, not least of which was our eventual relegation. I also think that many things were said by a lot of people - fans and club alike - that with the benefit of hindsight they probably wish they could take back. All in all, probably the darkest year in our short history. However, the simple fact of the matter is that we do not know the full details of just how the club has been restructured in the last 5 weeks ..... Do those bleating on about "high earners" know for a fact that the likes of Grassa or Mike Smith wont be taking pay cuts or changes in job titles as part of the restructuring process? Do those belting on about playing budgets know for a fact that TB doesnt already know what he has at his disposal? Do those who talk about him being in Sweden while others are signing players know that it is not just him but several managers who are in Sweden as part of a mandatory portion of their UEFA badge? Do those who are suddenly being fed more information than ever before by "sources" (from either side) ever stop to consider that they may be getting "the party line" from the club or a skewed viewpoint from disgruntled employees or ex-employees? As I said before, I will wait until the club give their side before passing judgement in full. I have received so many snippets of things from all sides - much more than I normally get - and much of it is contradictory. It will all come out in the wash eventually and once it does, I will know who has given me the "gen" and who has fed me the "bull" and that will help me decide my own reaction....................

and we would likely have had to foot the hotel and travel bills ....... I know we all would like to see "glamour friendlies" but the bottom line is that we are cutting costs and cutting jobs so it would be a huge slap in the face to those who did/do lose their jobs if the saving went straight into splashing the cash to bring big names up to the stadium ..... reality check time folks ... no matter how distasteful it may be !

he was released at least a couple of seasons ago ... think he is now at Nairn County

I would agree

McNulty was released I believe

cant say I am happy with the silence but many are on holiday right now and a date I keep hearing for various things to be set for next season (like budgets etc) is the 22nd which is Monday ... I will give it a few more days

If the SFL fixtures were that good why did the put us playing on the same days as Scotland when George Burley asked for us not to play on the same day as the national team Where are you all getting this from think your a bit confused. first division games are never on when the Scotland play, I think there are no senior games on at all anymore when Scotland play. We play Norway away on wed Aug 12th- no fixtures Than we have Macedonia at home on Sep 5th- there are no fixtures on that sat either, same as the Holland game the following wed We have already talked about this in the Butcher is Off thread ... the only clashes with international dates are for one of the playoff games (assuming we qualify for them), and for a friendly in Japan. We are at home to Livi on one of the the playoff dates and at home to QOS on the friendly date. The rest of the qualifiers, there are no games in Div1.

to be fair, it is not the SPL's fault that the villagers cant make it to the top flight .......

I agree with most of this - tell us like it is and let us take it on the chin. make the hard decisions so that forthcoming ones are easier but do so with honesty and transparency. However, as I have said and said again, I support the club in not going public until the consultation process is completed. I am not a club employee so I am not party to what stage that is at, but a process like that is not something that can or should be dragged out so we cannot be talking months, in fact, if it has been ongoing since the end of the season, I would hope/expect a statement may be forthcoming rather quickly.

check your sources again. I think you might find that in the end costs will be cut left to right, top to bottom, root and branch ....... Trust me, I share your concerns, even from this distance, and I will be as loud as you if my info doesnt pan out, but we have to hang on for a short time for the process to reach its conclusion before dissecting the contents of that process.

not defeatist and supportive IHE .... and not inactive either .... but I like to gather my facts and do my research before slinging out accusations ..... we are ALL hurting right now and much of what you say does make sense. I just cant agree with it all.

As I posted in another thread ......... If you read the various comments on here or in the media or hear snippets of stories going around, it is clear that the club are slap bang in the middle of a "consultation process" which will likely result in staffing reductions all over the place. We have had various threads about this surface in the last few days with mention of certain high profile or visible positions (U19 team and coaches for example) but the truth of the matter is that this is going on all over the stadium. Having gone through a consultation process myself a good few years ago where a group of us were told that half of us were not going to make it, I am glad that the club are saying very little about this publicly. I actually support them in making no direct (public) comment about any individuals until the process is over as that is the only professional way to handle things. Some might think it "appalling" but I am sorry, you dont comment on such a thing until it is done. I am not sure who on here has been through such a process, but I would guess a fair few. For those that have not, I can assure you it is a painful and horrible process for all concerned as you are dealing with people's livelihoods, their ability to pay mortgages etc and it is a process that must remain internal until it is finalised. Whatever we think right now is immaterial, it is the club staff who are important and we are secondary. I know we are nosey to know what is going on or what has gone on already or desperate to get that juicy bit of gossip posted, but I would hope that those of us who have had any dealings with the staff at the stadium would respect the fact that they must all be worried right now and inaccurate or insensitive comments on a public message board will not do anything to help. Once the process is complete, then it is definitely time to look for a full and frank statement from the club regarding what they have had to do to re-organise, what changes they have made to the staffing structure at the stadium, and how it affects everything else including the playing budget. Only then will we be in a position to fully comment on whether we agree with those changes. I also dont think it is fair to name specific individuals either - if the consultation process is fair, everyone will have a cost/benefit analysis done on their position and that is something already talked about on a thread a few weeks ago with regards to those individuals as well as another person ! If the analysis shows the position is untenable or that it requires a "wage adjustment" in line with our new Div1 status then hopefully that is reflected .... if it is not, THEN we can bitch and moan ... but lets just wait for the process before we jump to conclusions !

I agree with you Birdog, but as needed as that position might be, creating it in the middle of a recession when we have just reduced our potential income by being relegated, and are looking to cut costs all over the stadium is not the time to do it. I have bitched and moaned about PR for ages, but now is not the time. If you read the various comments on here or in the media or hear snippets of stories going around, it is clear that the club are slap bang in the middle of a "consultation process" which will likely result in staffing reductions all over the place. We have had various threads about this surface in the last few days with mention of certain high profile or visible positions but the truth of the matter is that this is going on all over the stadium. Having gone through a consultation process myself a good few years ago where a group of us were told that half of us were not going to make it, I am glad that the club are saying very little about this publicly. I actually support them in making no direct (public) comment about any individuals until the process is over as that is the only professional way to handle things. I am not sure who on here has been through such a process, but I would guess a fair few. For those that have not, I can assure you it is a painful and horrible process for all concerned as you are dealing with people's livelihoods, their ability to pay mortgages etc and it is a process that must remain internal until it is finalised. Whatever we think right now is immaterial, it is the club staff who are important and we are secondary. I know we are nosey to know what is going on or what has gone on already or desperate to get that juicy bit of gossip posted, but I would hope that those of us who have had any dealings with the staff at the stadium would respect the fact that they must all be worried right now and inaccurate or insensitive comments on a public message board will not do anything to help. Once the process is complete, then it is definitely time to look for a full and frank statement from the club regarding what they have had to do to re-organise, what changes they have made to the staffing structure at the stadium, and how it affects everything else including the playing budget. Only then will we be in a position to fully comment on whether we agree with those changes.

Given the examples of past PR/Spin fiascos, I would go with badly worded rather than misdirection. In terms of Spin, ICT are less "Carlsberg" and more "Kestrel" :026: I knew there was a Feb/Mar deadline as we have talked about it in the past .... something was telling me it changed though so you could be right about it now being May (which is sensible).

Morais is out of contract and has already said he will not be staying (or words very close to that). The only offers for Morais will be to the player himself as he is out-of-contract, a free agent, unemployed, got feck all to do with ICT .... get the idea ? Is it possible, Renegade, that he was taking advantage of some free advertising to alert the market that we have a good player for sale. I realise that this is the job for the agent and no doubt he will have done his ground work but if this free publicity gets another club interested and we therefore end up with ?1000 or two more for the club, maybe it was worth a shout. As the player himself (Morais) has said he will be away, where is the problem in Grassa repeating it ... it is called realism and far superior than trying to spin things in the faint hope he will stay. As for "player for sale" or "?1000 or two more" ... not sure where so many are getting the idea from that we will make anything .... to re-iterate .... the player is out-of-contract, a free agent, unemployed, worth nothing in terms of a transfer fee ..... get the idea ?

Badly worded I would agree, as we fulfilled our promotion criteria (much to the chagrin of Plastic Thistle) by organising a groundshare in Aberdeen. The deadline referred to I believe - and this could have been a lot clearer - was the one set by the SPL that if we had the stands in place by a certain date, we could complete the season in Inverness rather than play it all in Aberdeen. If we had not met that deadline, we would have been stuck at Pittodrie for the rest of the season. As for the following season, I believe you have (or had) to have your SPL compliant stadium ready well before the end of the season (Feb or March I think - although that may now have changed?). I remember this because it was a frequently debated topic before we went up in 2004 ... There were quite a few times when we skirted with greatness that the "should we spend the money and get the stadium ready when we dont know if we will win the league until May???" conundrum was floated ...

for those without digital - and in the UK or on VPN - you can see BBC3 on tvcatchup.com or Zattoo

fair comment .... but I think those handed the titles are far more astute in business than to be swayed by such an action if it was done for that purpose (which I dont think it was). consider one other thing as well though ... something we both know from the early days of the proposed website contract between PTV and ICT when the club asked for our input .... The contract with the club (in fact the standard PTV contract, and one which was mirrored in my days with rivals.net and to a lesser extent with SportNetwork) is that the "website operator" (ie. ICT) must release 'X' amount of "newsworthy" stories per week or be in breach of that contract. Not sure how many it is with ICT these days but I think the initial discussions mentioned three stories per week and they had to be in certain categories. If there are no valid team or match stories to put on the site and there is no contract news simply putting the centenary club results up or something else of that ilk doesnt cut it. The timing may not be perfect, but I think we are creating a storm in a teacup here over something that shouldnt really be an issue. It only seems to be an issue because the news of it came before something else that is higher up the priority list and hopefully that is likely being worked on but just cant be commented on right now !