Scotty

yup - it was one year when the labour (or Scottish labour ?) conference was at Inverness I think ..... or it might have been in support of David Stewart in an election campaign .... but he definitely was there .... I am sure "Kind of Blue" might be able to refresh our memories

where's the option for ALL of them !!!! seriously though - would want to get the Aberdeen hoodoo off our backs this season.

thank you m'lud :004:

I can see it now ..... the Innes Bar Bunch move locations to the stands at TCS ........ [attach=2] [attach=1]

4th Stand - i think we are fundamentally agreeing with each other here !!! both of us want minimisation in the amount of speculation. :003:

Thank You for proving my point !!! that even the facts (as I see them) are unclear !!! According to TeamTalk, Soccer365, Daily Record and the BBC a player was detained. According to the P&J, a player was questioned. Depends on what you class as detained I suppose. detained briefly at the scene and released pending inquiries possibly ? His agent, Kevin Drinkell ARTICLE. Today's Courier article also carefully words their coverage .... ARTICLE True and therefore he has not been charged with any offence (as I said). and will therefore be innocent (as i said). What is perfectly clear from this whole saga is that nothing is clear and will not be until the player, the club, and the police decide to comment on the actual facts of the 'incident'.

I would rather they focussed on safe standing areas and looked at alcohol later .........

Gabby - I beg to differ and as myself and Donald are the ones who would also be in the firing line IF (and I know it is a big if) either the player or the authorities decided to challenge some of what has been written on here, and we had not moderated any postings, then some of those posts could certainly be held up to show our irresponsibility. At the end of the day, I am covering both my own and the site's *** and make absolutely no apologies for doing so. We are trying to allow as much discussion as we can within the framework of what has been established as fact but we will not hesitate to edit or delete anything that we are uncomfortable with in a legal sense and this includes suggestions that the player was caught in possession of a particular named drug as this has not been established yet. If you want to call it a 'substance' then this is ok, but to categorically say it was drug 'a' or drug 'b' is wrong. I have done a lot of trawling through the internet over the last few days and have seen about half a dozen different accounts that claim to be factual and each and every one of them has different 'facts'. As far as I am concerned, the following are facts A player was detained at Rockness. That player has been confirmed as Richie Hart. The substance he was allegedly 'in possession' of has not been established (although it has been reported as one of four different drugs by various media outlets). It has not been confirmed that he was using the aforementioned substance merely that he was 'in possession' of it by virtue of it being found in his car. He has not (as far as I am aware) been charged with any offence. He is innocent until proven guilty. anything else is speculation. some of it may be strong speculation but it is speculation nonetheless. In today's Courier, the club (Bennett) have said "At the moment it is an allegation and it would be wrong of us to prejudice what will go on. I don't want to say or do anything until we have the full aspects of what happened. We can't really comment any further than that." and that to me seems sensible. We also do not want anything on here to be held up as prejudicial. If posters want to have a full discussion about drugs in sport or even about particular drugs in sport then this is fine. If you want to discuss drug policy within the club or the SPL this is fine. If you want to discuss Gordon Smith's idea that all players should be drug tested this is fine. If you want to discuss the dangers of other drugs such as nicotine or alcohol in comparison to 'controlled substances' this is fine. However, in any discussion, when you bring this player (or any player) into it and either categorically state or infer that he is a user of, or was caught with, a particular drug before this is established as a fact then this is not on. It is a very fine line between discussion and defamation and perhaps we might 'moderate' some comments that would be ok in that sense. However, after taking advice from a couple of people, including a lawyer, and receiving a LOT of email about the subject then I am comfortable with the level of both mine and the other admins/mods actions.

I do. thats the problem ... otherwise this posting would have been made 2 years ago !!

One disturbing thing in all this for me is that the club publicly stated that the offer made to Dargo "would not be matched by anyone in Scotland outside the Old Firm" so either we are completely ignorant of what other clubs can, will, and have offered to players in the past (and currently) or it is the worst kind of PR/Spin .... i.e. falsehoods that can be easily disproved and leave us looking inept and stupid. I have long been a supporter of the notion that no player is bigger than the club and that our wage structure is a good thing as it keeps the camaraderie and team spirit alive by having no prima-donnas earning twice or three times what their colleagues do. However, as we enter our 4th season in the SPL, we once again find ourselves in a situation where a player (or players) are all but confirming they can earn more in the 1st division and it means we are scouring the lower leagues for talent. There is a huge gulf in the income clubs receive in sponsorship payments between the SFL and SPL and I understand completely that we had to tread carefully for the first (and maybe even second) season in the SPL in case we were relegated (even though we would get a 'parachute' payment) but as C100 has said above, if we are to move to the next level then we need to level the playing field both in terms of the players we are looking at and what we can offer them. We cannot offer what the top clubs can, but we should certainly be on the same level as St Mirren, Falkirk and Motherwell which are all clubs that CD has been linked with both before and since he declined our contract offer If I were CC, I would also be a little anxious as well .... If the club cant attract players, and results suffer, he is the one who will ultimately have to fall on his sword and right now, it appears that he is being asked to do his job with one hand tied behind his back as not only do we have the "geography" issue but we still have the "wages" problem. ICT - Please give him the tools to succeed (or fail) on his own merits as the current situation is not fair on him or the fans.

well we do have the caution smiley :018: or the booking smiley :32: or ultimately this one ..... :33: on this occasion, we will go with :018: :004:

talking of getting kids involved ... here are a couple of easy ones ...... At each home game, select a school and kids from that school are picked to be ball boys (or girls) for the day .... not only do they feel a little more involved than if they were just getting free tickets but if you make it into a package where they get a sort of kids-oriented hospitality day ... tour of stadium, light lunch, meet the players etc they may just develop some sort of affinity for the club ... and after their day is over, pester their parents to take them to more games Second idea, again focusing on kids, and something that was suggested before and even tried (half-heartedly) but never seemed to come to anything is to have an inter-school competition for primary schools in the area. Over the course of a season, "x" number of schools play each other for the right to play in the latter stages at the TCS. 16 teams qualify, and at each home game one game is played at half-time - 5minutes each-way - this gives 8 games in first round, 4 games in 2nd round, 2 games in semis and the final = 15 games (out of a minimum of 18 home games) where the entertainment could be these games. This would also allow the club to put it on hold for the guaranteed 3 home games against OF opposition during the season where seats are at a premium. Again, this would hopefully see the club focusing on kids who are our future supporters (and maybe getting parents involved who could be instant supporters !) [edit: - forgot to mention - for the schools competition - make it a little more interesting for the kids by assigning a player as a mentor for that side either during the qualification process or on the day. we might be a little blase about our players because in many cases we have watched them from the lower leagues all the way to the SPL, but for a lot of younger kids, these are "celebrities" who play football in the SPL.]

There is a huge difference between someone expressing their opinion about a players performance and making factually incorrect statements about an incident where they were not present and dont have any/all of the facts. As and when the facts are known then there will be no problem discussing it in more depth in relation to the player. I cant speak for any other forums but we were asked twice when on SportNetwork to remove certain topics because they may have been a problem - and after taking legal advice from the SN lawyers we did as we were asked. Kingsmills - thank you for your professional opinion. We are trying to allow discussions to take place but it is difficult to know where the line we cant cross is drawn, as it changes with each little nugget that comes out. We will continue to monitor the situation and where we have to, we will limit the comment to what is both prudent and allowable under the law. We ask all users to please try and stick to this and also ask those (like Kingsmills) to let us know if anything slips through the net.

I think it is great to have any ideas that might put bums on seats and if we can help in any way then we are happy to do so. We can certainly put people in touch with club officials but that can also be done just as easily through ther official website. I would also point out that both the club and others like the supporters trust all read this board so posting ideas on here also works ... especially when they are good ones.

To answer your question about County - the answer is yes. for example, we did restrict what was allowed regarding a certain (fast food related) incident involving Tony Bullock and also had to be very careful about what was allowed when Graham Rix was briefly Hearts manager !!! With regards to freedom of speech - yes, freedom of speech is allowed. However, bear in mind that the player is also entitled to certain rights such as the right not to be defamed, the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty, and the right to his personal privacy. If we decide that any opinion posted is defamatory or could cause us legal trouble if we leave it posted we also have the right to remove it .... and we will because at the end of the day, the most important right is my right not to have my *** sued !!!! I would rather we didnt but we will deal with each posting on its own individual merits. If someone claims that something is fact and it has not been established we will delete it, if it is something in the public domain as an established fact then it is ok so long as it does not cross the line. As for the drug involved, I dont think that can be quoted ... given that 4 different agencies quoted 4 different alleged substances and the police have said a result from the test wont be known for some time then anything about that is pure an utter speculation.

What you have done there is directly reference the event that myself and Scotty have said that just cannot be done. You have narrowed down the discussion instead of keeping it broad. I think that is still reasonably broad ! - anyone coming on here has probably read 4 or 5 different accounts of the alleged incident so knows at least one of the many stories going around. All we are asking is that any discussion on this subject is kept to the broad topic until such time as the player/club have made comment.

Gabby - talking generally about the problem in sport is quite acceptable. The new head of the SFA Gordon Smith talked about making drug tests mandatory and this is also OK. Where we have to tread very carefully - as EWS has so eloquently pointed out - is when we start narrowing that discussion from a broad based discussion to one that focuses on an individual player then we have to be sure that the content of the postings are actually based on facts. So far I have seen different reports that alleged one of 4 different drugs, found in one of 3 or 4 different places and with a couple of different outcomes for the player. What we havent heard yet is a response from the club or the player which I think would me more accurate.

true ... and as I said above, the same could be said for both Farquhar and Bradshaw

correct. The friendlies we have organised for the start of the season whether against SFL or HL teams all had to be authorised by the SFA.

Fox cant be the worst - he scored a couple of goals and did ok in some games Other than my first choice of Vetle, I would class some of the worst as those we didnt get the best out of and there are 3 that spring to mind 1. Gary Farquhar - heralded as a superstar when he came to the club because he was coming from a higher league he vanished almost immediately and his ICT career ended because of off-field problems. 2. Mike Newlands - never even kicked a ball for ICT. A career ending injury meant he never made it into the squad let alone onto the park. [attach=1] Farquhar, Newlands and Bavidge sign for the club. 3. Paul Bradshaw - looked very promising in pre-season when he signed and in his 5 appearances and I think he might have been a very good player but once again, off-field issues and inability to adjust to full time football ended a career.

Its has been happening for years and I am sure it will continue to do so. I agree that some players will probably treat the job like any other job from a business or salary point of view (and we have seen plenty of examples). If I am honest I would also walk if the situation was the same ... in fact, I did !!! I used to work in IT for the website of one of the national Canadian newspapers in downtown Toronto (on a renewable 6 monthly rolling contract which means no pension/benefits) and got a call from a recruitment firm who offered me an interview for a slightly more senior IT position with what is now my current employers. They offered me a permanent position with pension/benefits and a salary increase of more than 50% over the newspaper job ... the downside, I would have to drive 50Km to work on the western edges of the city each morning instead of taking public transit to downtown. I weighed it up and now do the drive. However, my point is that football is not a normal job because it involves the fans and the media. There wasn't thousands of people expecting me to stay at the newspaper just because they liked reading the website and saw me as an integral part of it, it was only my work colleagues who were sad and even though I was leaving one of the best media outlets in Canada my departure or any discussions over what they could offer me to stay didnt make it into the newspaper. In the case of a footballer, we the fans (of any club) have an expectation that our particular club is the best place for a player to be and no-one could possibly do any better ... in fact, why would they ever consider moving !!! Its a mindset based on our own love or passion for our club but the reality as we all know deep down inside is that they can and will make more money elsewhere and if they dont have a deep rooted loyalty to the club in the way that someone like Rossco or Grant does they will probably move as they have to look after #1. It doesnt make it any easier for the fans, especially because of our own loyalties to the club, and that is why there is a backlash. We admire players who are honest with us - such as Darren Dods or Dennis Wyness (when he went to Hearts) but have a different reaction when we feel the player isnt being entirely honest which is the case with Dargo. Dargo has done nothing wrong - he saw out his contract, waited to the end of the season and considered then declined the new one - end of story - but because it has dragged on a bit we feel like we have been strung along, possibly because the noises coming from the agent were positive ("ICT have made a very good offer") and we then got the big negative wallop a few weeks later. I agree with you when you mention the circumstances under which players leave the club and that we never get the full story (never have, never will). There have been rumours about what CD was offered but we will never know for sure. Grassa said at the outset that no-one other than the OF would be able to match what was offered but if he signs for another Scottish team then that is clearly not the case. The club captain who led us to the SPL (Bobby Mann) would have stayed at the club if a couple of very small contract wrinkles could have been worked out but it was alleged the club never got back to him on that so he left. One of our other popular players from years gone by (Mike Teasdale) also had an ignominious exit at the end of a contract when both he and the fans would have loved him to have stayed for another season or two and maybe move into a coaching or PR role at the end of it. I cant help feeling we lost an opportunity there with Mike as he was a very friendly face to the fans and happy to get involved in things off the pitch (first and only player to look forward to doing regular web chats with the fans). He would have made a good PR man or fans liaison. anyhoo, this is turning into a novel so I will summarise .... We are always going to be upset, bewildered or annoyed when a player leaves, especially one that is a fan favourite but we are more likely to be annoyed when we dont feel we are getting all the facts or are being strung along and this is why Dargo is getting a hard time and Dods is not. Once again, I reiterate my thanks to CD for all he did in an ICT shirt and confirm that I dont care if he does well or not at his next club as his welfare is no longer my concern.

NO-ONE is irreplaceable but EVERYONE is important

Thats a very interesting comment worthy of further discussion. Tommy is a crucial cog in the wheel of ICT whether it be his immaculate pitch or whether it be related to kit duties. If any member of staff were to get one, then TC would be the man !!!

I dont think anyone is denying that footballers have a short career and need to maximise what they can get - thats is one of the reasons why there is no outcry about Darren Dods who is also leaving. [yes we were pissed off when he announced it earlier in the season, but he has performed professionally since then and goes with the good wishes of most fans]. I dont blame Dargo for saying no in the end, we made him an offer, he refused as he felt he could get better elsewhere. end of story. How much influence was exerted by the "girlfriend who didnt settle in the area" we will never know, indeed that line could all be smoke and mirrors .. but it doesnt really matter, he made a choice ..... in the end. The thing that seems to be pissing off most folk is the 'time' part of it and we can split the blame here. I do believe that CD has strung the club (and therefore the fans) along a little bit in an effort to play other clubs off one another to get the best deal he can from someone, anyone (except ICT) and that a decision to move had been made yonks ago. That rankles with me a fair bit and reduces my opinion of a striker who will always be remembered as good as opposed to legendary which would have happened had he stayed another couple of seasons and doubled his goal tally. However, ICT also have to take some blame ... once again we conducted business in the press rather than behind closed doors and what is worse set and allowed the player to break a number of deadlines (although, do we know if the player was even aware of these deadlines or not ?). We have to be more professional in this manner. As for the fans, yes we probably are over-reacting, but fans and players have a special relationship ... no matter what anyone else says in this thread, its NOT like any other job. Fans form a bond with players who play for their favourite club and as most fans would never dream of switching their club alliances they tend to get upset and bewildered when their 'idols' switch those alliances ... that is one of the reasons why Rossco is such a legend. He is not the best right back in the country but he is 100% loyal to ICT and we the fans love him for it. Darren Dods goes to DUFC with a grudging respect because we the fans felt he was being honest with us and performed professionally after the announcement earlier in the season but CD, in many fans eyes strung us along which is why he is getting a backlash. Does he deserve it ? probably not, Can we really blame him for his choice ? no, its a short career. so - as I said elsewhere .... I dont wish him luck as his welfare is no longer my concern .... but I do thank him for his contribution to ICT over the last two seasons.

Who play Hearts away on the 22nd Dec, Falkirk away on Boxing Day, Killie at home on the 29th and Aberdeen away on the 2nd Jan (at 7:45pm) ......??? Think its ICT who will be angry .... at least Aberdeen have one of their two main festive season games (ie. Boxing Day / New Year's Day (or 2nd in this case) ) at home