starchief

It's worth remembering that the younger teams are there to produce one or two good players, not a whole team. The classic example is Everton Schoolboys getting beaten by Liverpool Schoolboys 15-1. Wayne Rooney came from the Everton team. Everton win. One or two players becoming SPL standard would be a terrific result. It matters not how the rest of the team perform in the youth leagues.

St Johnstone seem to be one of the teams that have come out the poorest of the close season. Can't see them doing top six this year. A relegation battle methinks instead.

Being a bit harsh. Looks like a guy who believes that Green has pulled a Whyte and wants proof he has all that he's claiming. I see the SFA are doing the same thing. I've no idea of the true situation myself but if we had Whyte then Green controlling ICT, then an ICT legend that looks like a thug (e.g. Tokely) shouts for ICT to be returned to the fans, I 'd certainly not shout them down.

Obviously tactics will change with each match but teams generally have a preferred layout. I've been trying to figure out how I would play ICT (NB: not trying to guess what Butcher will do - where's the amateur manager fun in that?). We don't really seem to have a natural right winger/midfielder. The nearest we can get is probably Nick Ross but I'm not sure that's his best position. I have to admit to not having seen a number of players, and probably won't until late August/early September. I've gone for the Xmas tree formation. It does away with width. That means A.Shinnie and Doran have more freedom. Doran is normally a winger but I think he could do a good job, using his skills to create and get a few goals too. Sutherland seems the most likely frontman for such a line-up. As well as scoring, his main job will be to do a Rooney and hold the ball up/be a target man for A.Shinnie and Doran. Even though I've not included him in the line-up, Nick Ross will have an important role in the midfield. There's likely to be a few injuries but I've gone for these three as the most solid. Again that allows Shinnie and Doran more freedom with this behind them. I'm quite happy in defence as well. We can take a couple of injuries with King and Raven in there. We do have an injury-prone squad. With a bit of luck, I think it looks reasonably good. Obviously we would have preferred a striker but I don't see us being much worse off than our immediate rivals. With the SPL cash flow, I don't think we can expect miracles. Anyway, my line-up is: Esson Meekings - Hogg - Warren - G.Shinnie Draper - Tudur-Jones - Foran A.Shinnie - Doran Sutherland

According to the SPL the expiring TV deal was conditional upon 4 old firm derbies a season so there is no TV deal as things currently stand. And doesn't this just illustrate the sheer incompetence of people running the game in this country! How on earth do the powers that be get away with negotiating a contract that is dependent on 2 particular teams both being in the top 6 for four consecutive seasons? An interesting scenario would have been if there was an old firm game immediately before the split with Rangers needing to win to get a top 6 slot. Would Celtic have thrown the game in order to ensure the TV contract was not invalidated? This just illustrates that we must have change. I have heard that it's that the SPL has the Old Firm, rather than 4 Old Firm games. Nevertheless, there may be a penalty for one dropping out of the top six. After all, it seems Sky are even happy for Rangers to be in Division One. But I'm not sure it is so ridiculous to base your spending on your income. Do you base your mortgage on what you are likely to earn or a worst case scenario, i.e. you quit your job and on the dole? Most provincial clubs have 1-2 year deals (something which many of us have roundly criticised) and wages so low that we can't compete with Division One in England. Unless we move to month-by-month deals, they seem to be cutting their cloth more and more. According to the Scotsman, the SFL are up in arms that they are being threatened with less money as their current lot is based on both TV and sponsorship - both of which are likely to go down. If East Fife wants more equity, how about they survive on the sponsorship/tv deals they can extract?

I've said this on another thread: - reconstruction and sharing out the money to the current SFL clubs means less money to clubs in the current SPL - the SPL clubs would make that sacrifice if the money was largely the same, i.e. a compromise - the money, according to the chairmen, will not be the same - being near bankruptcy, the SPL will have no intention of sharing this money with the SFL I really don't understand why this is so difficult to grasp.

In public. I suspect the clubs might know a little more about the situation, hence the panic. The 'down to division one' I'm sure wasn't based on a dream. That'll ease the pain when you're talking to some youngsters about the time when Inverness once had a professional team.

Absolutely spot on. Why, thank you sir. Although I believe I answered the question above. Would you share your wages if you were struggling with bankruptcy?

Reconstruction, expanded leagues etc would mean a watering down of money from the current SPL. If Rangers were in Division One, it's one they could bear for a bit of security. Watering down money from the SPL with half of the members in dire financial trouble isn't going to happen. That was obviously the deal. If the SFL wants clubs to stand on their own two feet, then they'll have to manage without being reliant on (increased) payments from the SPL. There's no way now the SPL will be able to be more equitable (if a club that gets thousands of supporters propping up a club that barely gets a couple of hundred is equitable). It's the SFL that will struggle badly in this. Killie, Motherwell, ICT etc have no money to share and the SFL haven't been self-reliant for decades. Where will Stranraer or Alloa get their money from now that the SPL has none to spare? Not from their supporters, that's for sure. The SFL wanted financial fair play. Well, it starts in Ochilview, Methil and the other part-timers of a bygone era, How long before they are living beyond their means and asking for club saving donations when the SPL shuts up shop?

And how do they fund themselves? Through cost-cutting and only taking on players their couple of hundred supporters can afford? Nope. Reliant on funding from the SPL. Now that those SPL teams are struggling, why give their money away when they can't afford it? Exactly. It's not professional. They're amateur teams. When a club like Morton struggles for a season or two, they're then dropped into a part-time league with no away support. Trying to keep a full-time team and some sense of ambition can lead to financial disaster. Time to separate the amateurs and the professionals. Two leagues of between 14 and 16 is the way forward. Not this ridiculous situation where the juniors can get more support than the 'professionals'.

Fixed it for you.

I'm not sure this victory will be as welcome as some think. What this means is a shortfall around the equivalent that the SPL sends to the SFL. I can't see the SPL expanding and thus watering down their money. The 12-team league, one promotion place is here to stay at best. I can't see Killie, for instance, giving money to Alloa when the Ayrshire men are in danger of going bankrupt. The money flow won't happen. The ones who will really be hammered is the SFL. Expect to see a number of SFL clubs go to the wall as the SPL, not surprisingly, try to save themselves. And quite rightly too. The notion that Scotland should have over 40 professional clubs, when many are part-time and attract only a few hundred supporters is laughable. That's amateur football. Many in former mining communities - a throwback to a long gone age that we have to move away from. Two leagues of between 14 and 16. That's more than enough. There should never have been a 4th tier to drop into.

Faith to do what? Top six? Nope. Relegation? Probably not but a possibility. Best manager we could have? Probably not. Deserves to be sacked for being nowhere near relegation, coming higher than a bigger-spending Hibs, falling only two points short of bigger-spending Aberdeen and winning more games than both the Dons and the next up, St Mirren? Nope. This board is getting really tedious. Think it's time to retire.

I agree Alex. I'm neither a happy clapper nor an eternal optimist. But can we really justify sacking a manager who's had 2 good seasons and one lacklustre season? Terry wasn't my first choice, nor my kind of manager. I expect to be struggling against relegation this season. But if I were a salesman and achieved well in excess of my targets for the first two years, did better than the minimum for the third, I would be well (insert banned word here) off to be sacked after that. Butcher deserves a chance from what he's achieved with us, not a 5-year contract, is all I'm saying.

You mean the McBain that wanted a free transfer as he didn't like being a squad player. Much like Tokely. The McBain that, although a much respected ICT ex-player, was no way still SPL quality, just like Duncan. It's any stick isn't it Renegade? No matter the promotion, the year-long unbeaten away, the almost top six. Every time, from first to last, it's been criticism. And now, at the age of 34, after he had been given a two-year deal, after being offered another deal to stay, after getting a lot of negativity from posters on here, somehow Butcher's big plan was to axe Tokely from the beginning. Here's my prediction then. Foran will eventually stop playing for ICT. It's been Butcher's plan from the start that eventually players in their mid-30s will be past their best. I strongly suspect Ryan Esson will go the same way in a few years. It's ridiculous allowing managers to manage their own way. Bring back Wyness. He might have been well past it by the time he left but at least he was ICT. It's nostalgia masquerading as opinion.

To be fair, he did get a new deal. And from his comments, it seemed a deal that meant he would be there as cover - much like many posters are suggesting. No guarantee of playing. Not as much money as regulars. It's a shame he's leaving but if he's not going to be happy in a back-up role, then what can you do. A legend that could have done one more season with us but it wasn't to his liking.

Got papers to write and exams to mark. Writing something difficult or something fun? Classic case of substitute activity I'm afraid.

If we played Hibs, we could settle it on a 5-a-side game.

I thought Jones would be desperate to snap up any deal. If ICT was the best he could get last year due to injury problems, then spent the whole year injured, what's changed? Maybe we're offering him less due to being inury-prone. Not a bad idea. Just wish we had at least tried Proctor in that role.

It's fairly obvious Foran is part of a long-term plan. I'd be surprised if he wasn't part of the coaching set-up soon. I know some will criticise that as Foran is pretty aggressive on the pitch. Two things: so was Peter Grant and Roy Aitken but they seem to be doing alright as assistants. Also, that has to be the manager's choice. Who knows what Foran is really like as a coach, except those with substantial football experience. After all, wasn't Paul Lambert terrible at Livi? Sturrock at Dundee United? It has to be Butcher's choice.

So, let's see.... Butcher was criticised for getting us relegated coz he played Tokely at centre-back. Tokely should also not play for ICT again as he's 4th, 5th and 6th choice as centre-back. He's too slow, too rash and cost us a number of goals. Tokely should also stay as he's a great centre-back. Proctor also must stay as he's ICT through and through, even though he only came back after failing elsewhere. Proctor is terrible and should never play for ICT again. Proctor will be a great signing for Ross County - we should never have let him go. Butcher should never have signed Golabeck as he was past his best. He should also sign Duncan after Ross County decided he wasn't good enough for SFL1, so went to Peterhead. Munro needs to getaefeck as all he does is hoof-the-ball. Munro should have never been sold. Buthcer has ripped out the heart of ICT by not keeping McBain, Golabeck, Hastings and all those others that were no longer SPL quality. Meanwhile, he can't replace them with any quality. Which is why Golobart was never player of the year, we're desperate to get rid of Tade, Gillet and Hayes and we're expecting nothing from A.Shinnie or Doran next season. David Davis. Another failure. As was Tansey, which is why Motherwell were after him. What would Stuart McCall know about potential? Hayes would be better off going to a club where it will be almost impossible to get spotted, as long as it's in England. After all, anywhere in England is better than the SPL. Meanwhile, we should try to sign Black from Hearts and get Rooney on loan from Birmingham. Even though we're desperate for any players with a hint of quality not to sign for any other SPL clubs, we will also bemoan the lack of quality in the SPL. We have no money yet should be able to sign a load of great players for free, whilst acknowledging we can't compete with other SPL clubs, both in terms of finance and location. The likes of Eagle, Stratford etc prove this, even though they cost very little and we went up first time of asking and almost achieved a top six finish. We also wasted a lot of money on Tuffey...who we should offer a new contract to. However, we should forget about that as we were almost relegated this season, finishing only a mere 14 points above Dunfermline and beating a Hibs side that spent vastly more than us. Nevetheless, we should be playing more flowing football on a budget far below the Brazil-like Aberdeen, who finished far above us on two points more. Butcher should play Ross, G.Shinnie and Sutherland more. CTO begged for G.Shinnie to be dropped after a dip in form, although he shouldn't have been dropped. Gillet should have been brought back earlier too. Although neither Shinnie or Gillet should be played out of position. So two left-backs then. Ross isn't strong enough to play regularly and should be loaned out. We should also build the team around him. Ross played 32 games this season. Ross also didn't play much this season. Sutherland should get his chance. Sutherland did and showed he isn't the answer. Why didn't Sutherland play more? We should sign more Highland players, even though we don't know any capable of playing in the SPL. We should though look to the SFL, even though Tade wasn't SPL quality, which is why St Johnstone are after him and he rejected us. But we should take a chance on SFL players to get us some goals, apart from Rory McAllister as he wasn't any good as a teenager but is a superior goalscorer to anything in the SFL 2 or 3. We should sack Butcher and get Robbo in, even though, in a vote, CTO voted for Butcher above Robbo. A more experienced manager is the answer, such as Jimmy Calderwood, Jim Jefferies or Bobby Williamson - all of whom aren't the solution. A young manager with potential should be brought in as long as he's experienced as we can't rely on untried managers. If you think Butcher deserves a chance after doing better than expected two seasons out of three, then you're a happy clapper thinking everything is rosy in the garden. If Butcher doesn't improve the club's fortunes, then he should never have been hired. Just as long as we're being consistent here.

Disappointed Hayes seems to be leaving. Glad he seems to be staying in Scotland. With Hearts on the way down and Craig Brown/Archie Knox at the helm, I think Aberdeen could do well next season. That's a number of decent players they're after. Won't get them all of course but can see them battling with DU for a good Euro-spot next year. That's got to be better for the Scottish football fan than seeing if Jonny got subbed at Colchester in the Sunday Post.

I'd say moving anywhere but the EPL or possibly the strong promotion candidates of the Championship would be the only step up from the SPL. He might earn more money at Doncaster or Coventry but there's no chance of Europe, Cups, tv fame, international recognition (see James McPake) etc. Aberdeen has that. Hell, even ICT has a better chance of it. Maybe time to look at the positives Scottish football can offer other than a bigger wage packet, sitting on the benches of a club that will go nowhere? And for the record, I hope Hayes stays. But if not, I hope he stays in Scotland to improve play in the SPL.

Foreign football managers should be banned for national teams. Why should it be any different for the most important part of a team, the manager, than it is for a goalkeeper? And the sooner we can stop hoping our players go to sit on the bench for a Division Two (or Championship if you insist) club, rather than staying and making the SPL improve, the better. An Aberdeen team with Cowie, Black, Rooney and Hayes might upset a few people at the TCS a couple of times a year but it would make out league more exciting and push up the standard of all clubs. I want Scottish football to be better at all levels. And we won't get that with McGuire, Allan or Fyvie playing in some reserves for a few bob more, or hoping Hayes or Black leave Scotland 'to further themselves' at a non-top division side. Maybe not a lot we can do about it but perhaps not urging them to leave Scotland at the first opportunity might help a little.

If you're up, Dundee v Dundee Utd for the 1982-3 SPL decider is on the Big Match Revisited currently on ITV4. You're missing the battle for the English 2nd Division (nope, not 'the Championship') - how tight was Pryde Park!?!