starchief

Sorry to drift but how on Earth did Hearts manage to bring in players like Ngoo and Wilson? I'd be sorely hacked off if I was a supporter pledging money to save them from extinction when they then spend thousands on EPL players. It's not right. ICT v St Mirren. My dream final. Ah well, maybe sometime.

I feel Oddquine is a touch away from '...and Butcher should never have let Munro, Tokely and Duncan go' What does Marsella know about player ability? And when has Butcher ever played players from the youth ranks like Ross, Sutherland and G.Shinnie? Why did Butcher rely on the players that got us to second place and a semi-final instead of someone out with a long-term injury? The clue's in the question.

Think it's worth mentioning that Ross has been out most of the season with a shoulder injury. Not match fit by a long way, so can see why he wasn't brought on. Can't remember him ever taking a penalty either. Roberts has and did well. I'd say that he was the better man to trust from inside the box. It didn't work out but I'm not sure Ross would even have taken a penalty if he was on. That leaves a non-forward player (not that Ross is a goalscorer himself). Again, far less trustworthy. Penalties are a lottery, especially when only one is missed. Debating the manner of the game is fine but blaming Butcher for ICT scoring 4/5 penalties or Roberts for taking a penalty, whilst ignoring that he's done well from the penalty spot before is plainly ridiculous. If only we'd got an easier time like Celtic! Saints were lucky to draw them.

I agree with the previous two posters. McGlynn before the match said Hearts had an advantage from the team having been in the semi-final position. I did not think that would be true but it seems to have been. Maybe we should think of this as long-term progression, not a setback.

Its usually the players that decide spot kicks and having a forward who is there to score as one of the takers is not that surprising. Robertswas not brought on to take a penalty but for young legs against tired to win in extra-time. If Foran or Doran had missed a penalty, fans would have been asking why someone so tired was allowed to stay on, instead of fresh legs getting a chance to win it in open play. . What was the difference was Hearts bringing in a couple of ringers in multi-million pound players from Liverpool. And all those thousands in wages from a club that asked fans to raise over a million, whilst not paying their own staff. That stinks.

Having lived in Egypt for a number of years...it was not a riot. It is all political. Ahly fans were anti-Mubarak and were mysteriously massacred, with a few weird happenings that night. The people are now rioting due to not trusting a Cairo court to prosecute Port Saiidans. The police have gone from the dominant force to either powerless or a militia, depending where you live and what kind of police. Little to do with an air-filled leather bag. Thats the smoke screen (as is the whole trial taking place on the revolutions anniversary - hey, dont talk about an Islamist takeover, theres a trial to concentrate on). Nothing is what it seems.

Cowie: pre-contract then moving for a nominal fee - I guess it's a sale but we couldn't have sold him for any more. That is what I am getting at. Have we actually sold players for a fee that was under what we should have? The ones that we may have gotten a few for (Black, Cowie, Dods etc), we couldn't have demanded much due to the contract situation. Niculae wasn't worth more than what we got and Rankin was probably about right. Any diamonds we had locked up in a long contract that we sold for peanuts? Yeah, Robson was one, I'll grant you. Any more?

I'm struggling to think of any player we've sold that's gone on to be successful. For most of our best players, the time just runs out on their contract.

Warren is a central defender. I don't see Roberts being a lone striker, especially now. That's why, with Oswell gone, I think we might struggle to fill his position if McKay isn't playing for any reason.

He's scored less than Gary Warren. I don't see double figures coming from him. In fact, I can't see him ever playing the lone striker role. He's just not built for that style. I'd sooner put Foran up.

Bournemouth have been taken over and Fraser, apparently, was still on a youth wage and wasn't offered much more. But to say that playing in League One is a step up from the SPL is crazy. A step up is surely about glory and competition. Competing for the Austrian title is probably not as difficult as mid-table Serie B and would pay less but if sport isn't about winning, might as well cheer on Glaxo Smith Kline. They make more money and it's more difficult to get into upper middle management. But glory? I don't think so. I really don't understand the desire to want the best players to leave Scotland.

That's just plain ridiculous talk. He's as good as Van Persie but not better. £24M at best for him. At best.

I think we do with Oswell gone. Who replaces an injured McKay (or if he loses form)? Foran doesn't seem to be a front player anymore. Sutherland hasn't hit the heights when played. We've no one else to slot into that position, except for playing Shinnie or Pepper out of position.

Does not sound like a Butcher signing. I would be very surprised but not disappointed. I realise the Mwell connection but an experienced 29 year old?! Cant see it.

Miller? A lurking striker?? The blame then lies with the scouts and management. That has never been his position.

So that's the meeja against Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen and St Mirren, as well as ICT. Relax. There's a player doing better than most. Bit of speculation. Nothing really. Maybe even Shinnie's agent is looking for offers. No conspiracy. Just a fairly dull story from a team that's rarely reported but are doing well, so a story has to be had. This is just the one they picked as they wouldn't know a Doran from a Draper.

His pace was gone at Mboro already. More of a central mid/inside-right then. Did very well. Actually, Strachan's biggest mistake was to not have wingers.

He was one of Strachan's few successes at Mboro. Still talked about as a good player and one that they were sad to leave. Could it be Rangers get back Robson, Miller and Boyd? (doubtful and crazy if they did - that's way too much money and firepower for so low in the leagues)

<grumpyhat> I guess that means people will be desperate for him to show off his skills at Doncaster then, rather than stay in the SPL. </grumpyhat>

At the moment, ICT is geared up to play AShinnie in, just as it was built around Hayes and Tade as goal-bound wingers last season. I don't think AShinnie is so good a player to be able to shine when not in that position and hasn't probably proved himself enough for another team to build their philosophy around them. I wasn't convicned Rooney should have stayed (he would have struggled to match his goal tally, as he was fairly one-dimensional) but I'd strongly urge AShinnie to stay. He's been good for us but we've also been good to him. Another year or two at the heart of our team could make him into a better player that's able to command his position more. I'm really not sure that would be the case going into a team where he's not the key but just another cog in the machine. The best medium-term option for AShinnie is to stay and develop his career. Then, he'll be a real catch for a team, rather than flitting in and out, then dropping down the clubs to get a game. That's my honest, non-ICT-baised position.

dont complain about the standard of the SPL then if you hope the best players go to the old English 2nd Division.

because he is (if AS actually does) leaving our community for our rivals. If it is simply a metter of business and not emotion, why care about football at all? Wish him to stay but dont wish him well if he leaves. Football without rivalry is pointless. I will wish AS well when he is playing for ICT and when he retires. Any other time, he is either not helping us, or actively trying to make us lose to a new club, so why would I care how he is playing?

give Pepper a couple of games. He looks as though he could do something. Give him a chance.

Winning and challenging would represent a step up. If it's only more money that inspires someone, it's a wasted career. No doubt those that want Shinnie to go to an English club are also the ones bemoaning the lack of talent in Scottish football. Can't have it both ways.

Whenever I see James Morrison on Match of the Day, he looks a real player. If I was WGS, I'd build my team around him and the inevitable Steven Fletcher upfront. Width provided by Naismith and Maloney (probably not at the same time, depending on opposition) and Forrest in the future. For me, it's either Brown or Fletcher. Too similar to play together. Unfortunately, illness has decided which one. The only Scotsman that can pass a ball is Adam it seems. I know there is criticism but, honestly, who else can pass? Unfortunately, I don't see Andrew Shinnie as being the quality needed. Sacrilege I know but true. Full-backs are ok but our central defence is absolutely shocking. Gary Caldwell, despite being much criticised is far and away our best central defender. I wonder if McManus might make a return. Not been great for Mboro and been on loan but I don't think Berra or...who?...Webster??? are any better (or worse but then, no relationship at club level). Yep, some will think differently but who would you have instead? No point complaining if you can't give a better alternative.