starchief

Hayes was to blame for the first goal - actually, it was Butcher for playing him there. Gillet shouldn't have been left on his own against two players. It made him look ridiculous. Then Proctor was missing at the back post.

Esson Piermayr - Aldred - Tokely - Gillet Proctor Hayes - Tansey - Ross Foran Tade Subs: Tuffey, G.Shinnie, Morrison, A.Shinnie, Sutherland, Doran, McKay We desperately need a defensive mid, so Proctor's going in there to hold the fort. Tansey slightly further forward, spraying the passes around, Hayes getting forward as much as he can. Foran playing behind Tade, whose job will be to score goals with his pace and bulk. Nothing else.

Yeah, we do have a couple of glaring omissions in centre-back and defensive midfield. Munro and Duncan are the obvious candidates but, even if they had to go, they also had to be replaced. Cox won't play every game. Although I quite fancy Proctor to slot in at defensive midfield, given that Butcher has never played them there, I suspect he doesn't have the same feeling. It's still early days but we are lacking in a couple of positions pretty badly.

He has in a way but not 'til next week.

Well you've asked, so here you go! Well, believe it or not, I have to agree in part with Dougal! While I do not oppose giving the management team a new deal, I'd rather see how the first chunk of the season goes first. Remember how quickly things can change in football. I agree. Butch has taken an enormous risk. Could work wonderfully but could equally crash. I would have left it until Xmas.

I'd like to know what Renegade thinks.

Playing the only man up front meant much of Rooney's job was to hold up play to bring others in. Thought he did that really well. I don't think it was the wrong move. Of course, he won't be automatic choice for Brum. He's not a proven ECL or EPL striker. He's a prospect. It's now up to Rooney to take a chance such as this and make his mark. That's what he was brought in for and I'm sure he knows that. I think a top ECL club or a top SPL club were his best choices. He will get chances to show what he can do with both of them. The worst choice would have been a lower division club. The opportunity to score would have been much more limited. And even if he had, there's still not that much opportunity to be picked up by a higher team it seems. No, I think it was a good choice. He's got more strings to his bow than simply goals but I also think he's got enough about him to score a few for Birmingham. This is his big opportunity.

St Johnstone have pulled off a major coup by signing Cillian Sheridan for 6 months. This could be very important. Could even get them top six.

Sounds promising but steady on. His match was only against Buckie. Naturally you can only beat what's been put in front of you but getting him to train with the seniors sounds the best bet. Imagine if he was getting constantly skinned by G.Shinnie or his tackling looked to be sub-standard of Proctor. So, yep, promising but let's hold our fire on a new contract until we've got SPL quality to compare him to. Does look hopeful though.

Andrew Shinnie is an attacking midfielder though. Really we only have Cox and Proctor that can play defensive midfield. Possibly Tansey could go in there, although I've never read anything about him being a tackler.

So far, every single person has chosen the same players, except G. Shinnie (who I believe is injured). Not too much difference in tactics either. It just depends who we're shoving as the (prime) attacking mid. Renegade - this is your cue

For me: Esson Proctor - Tokely - Aldred - Gillet Hayes - Ross - Tansey - Shinnie - Doran Foran Looks fairly negative with 5 across the midfield but I'd look for Hayes and Doran to do a lot of the attacking/providing. All three of the centre midfield can score goals, so they would have to take the opportunity to burst forward whenever they can. One of them has to dominate the midfield though and decide who that should be. I don't know their personalities but Tansey is the more experienced, whilst Shinnie has captained at junior Scotland level, so more likely one of them. There's not enough defenders to really pick'n'choose. I think Proctor would be far more at home in def mid but we can see after 20 mins if Proctor and Tokely should be swapping RB and CB. I sincerely doubt Tade (likewise Sutherland and McKay) would be fit enough to be effective for anything other than the last 30 mins or so, so that's why I've got one up front. I'm quite looking forward to seeing Tade. Although he's not scored too much in his career, I think we could see a lot of goals from playing him in the goal-hanger position that Rooney played. Less support from him down the wing, just let him muscle his way in and use some pace. So nice to see this thread back again :biggrin:

But is that the team you would choose or are you trying to guess Tel's? I find the former more fun.

It's only a friendly. We've seen numerous big teams get pumped by lesser clubs. From Rangers to Liverpool. It doesn't mean it'll be like that at the start of the season. I see above Partick just beat Celtic. Again, it's funny but meaningless. At least give them a competitive game before getting depressed.

Depends what you mean by struggle too. I think we'll struggle. But that's along with Hibs, Dunfermline St Mirren etc etc. I don't think anyone is certs to go down this year and I think the OF, Hearts and Dundee United have it sown up for the top, with 'Well pretty close to it. We've lost our top scorer and striking lynchpin, plus a stalwart and former (I remembered this time) captain in central defence. That's going to be tough. It'd be like St Mirren losing Higdon and getting rid of Potter, or Aberdeen losing Diamond and Maguire. And of course, Killie, Hibs and St J have also lost big players too. So, yeah, it's going to be a struggle. But, to be honest, I think every single year will be. Let's just enjoy the ride and not fret too much before it's definite.

I think Killie will struggle. They've lost some crucial players and nose-dived badly last season. Of course, they have brought in some new players but they are largely unknown to me. Plus Dunfermine will be an unknown quantity. I don't expect them to be doing that well but better than Hamilton last season. From a potentially 'third force', Hibs have crashed. Their best players have now largely gone and I'm not too impressed by recent signings. Surprised Petrie is hanging on to Calderwood. I'd be driving him to the station for a fraction of what they've been offered. Aberdeen will do a lot better. Top six? Possibly but it's going to be a messy season. St Johnstone, I put with ICT. Both us and SJ have some crucial player losses. Some interesting buys. St Mirren, even though they've lost Potter, have made some good signings. After tipping them for relegation last season, I expect them to cause a few upsets this. Could be the surprise package. Motherwell: I thought McCall struggled at times last year. Still, well out of the relegation zone and a good bet for top six. With Killie out of the way, despite not being as good, they may clinch 5th. So far (and I reserve the right this early on to change my mind based on signings): 1. Celtic 2. Rangers 3. Hearts 4. Dundee United 5. Motherwell 6. Aberdeen 7. St Mirren 8. ICT 9. St Johnstone 10. Killie 11. Hibs 12. Dunfermline

Yup, allows us to strengthen centre of defence, and attack by bombing along the wings, both at full-back and, well, on the wings. Counter-attacking style. Different I know and no chance of it happening but that's my team anyway. Otherwise, we've got a big problem at RB and a serious lack of bodies for CD, assuming no signings.

It's tough losing your captain and top scorer - certainly in the first few games. Assuming no-one coming in (although I think there will be), I'm going for a drop from last season. Dunfermline, Aberdeen and St Mirren will all be stronger IMO. I don't see much of a challenge from Hibs and Killie will be a lot weaker. St.J - much of a muchness. I'm going for 9th as being realistic. We could push for 7th or 8th with a bit of luck. To get into the top six would require one of our strikers finding some incredible form. We can but hope.

That's who I think Butcher will go for as his first 11 (not necessarily my team I must add). I could be wrong (more so about A. Shinnie not being in there, I suspect) - feel free to name what you think is on his mind. Incidentally, my team would be: Esson Proctor Ross - Tokely - Aldred - Gillet Hayes - Cox - Tansey - Doran Foran But I accept there is no chance of it happening. Hey, I'm ultra-cautious, what can I do?!

I don't think we've much option other than attack. Our defence so far is threadbare and unconvincing in places. Our def mid of Duncan and Cox has been broken up (and the more attack minded Duff was replacing Duncan half the time anyway). I'd still like to see Proctor get a chance in def mid but I suspect our team will be: Esson Proctor - Tokely - Aldred - Gillet Cox Hayes - Tansey - Doran Foran - Mackay/Tade Not a lot that team can do than attack.

Fairly obvious we're not going down the 'old heads' route. Instead, we're taking the route that worked so well for Mo & Tel at Motherwell. A RB is a must. A CB is bordering on necessity but we could hold out til Xmas, with Tokely, Proctor, Aldred and Meekings if we really have to. Far from ideal but just about manageable. One good CB and we're in with a chance of top 6 again.

Depends if he's after the same salary as he was on at Plymouth - around ?6,000 a week!

So you go for a job with the Royal Bank of Scotland. You sprain your hand when sorting out the till. They tell you to come back in 3 weeks time for a second interview but won't guarantee a job. You feel a little sore but basically fine. HSBC offers you an interview for a similar position and their medic says it's ok to operate the till - just a minor sprain. You have no particular loyalty to either bank. What do you do? I'd imagine most of us would go along to the HSBC interview. If the Royal Bank then come back and want to sign you. Fine. If HSBC do. Fine. You've got no allegiance to either bank, so why would you turn down HSBC on the basis of a mere second interview with absolutely no guarantee of a job? If I was Tel and had concerns about his fitness, I'd get him back in 3 weeks time, if still available, and assess the seriousness of the injury. I certainly wouldn't expect Gilbert to wait around, turning down clubs that don't seem to believe the injury is as serious as ICT do. Perhaps we're just being over-cautious. Perhaps they're being too cavalier. Either way, I don't think the full-back's too blame in trying to get a job with a club that feels his injury is minor. And I don't think he should be criticised for not saying "no thanks" - who said he wouldn't sign a deal if one was offered? He's not turned down a contract as none (as far as I know) has been offered.

A couple of years ago, yeah but not now. Wonder how Mihadjuks is getting on? Mind you, he was woeful for Dundee Utd.

You still think that after what caleyrule has said? If he's got no offer and believes himself fit, why would he just hang around watching instead of trying to get a new contract. If what caleyrule has said is true (and it often is), I don't see Gilbert's done anything wrong. Wouldn't rule him out if it's just ICT wants him to stay on the sidelines, whilst Gilbert wants to play. Shows he's keen. Brings his worth higher in my book. Hope we're still looking at him after what people have said about him in his trial period.