Oddquine

Totally agree.... A start has been made by changing the crass UK Settlement Laws which legally allowed members of the royal family to marry or adopt any religion but Catholicism......and if I were in the Scottish Government, my immediate reaction to that change would have been to ban all Orange and Hibernian Parades as constituting incitement to hatred....and waited to see the effect of that before making life difficult for the ordinary football fan, with the usual political wooliness when it comes to crafting bills. Never quite understood, not just the Scottish penchant, but the UK penchant for allowing marches which will by their very nature, produce a reaction from those who disagree with them....usually violent. ..and many of which are intended to do just that. When does freedom of speech, assembly and the right to be a complete dick get subsumed by the majority, who can cope with life without hating anyone, right to go about their daily business without having to avoid flailing fists and being kettled for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Why call it a Bigotry bill anyway..isn't bigotry covered to the last dotted i and crossed t in lots of other laws. Why not call a shovel a shovel and call it a Bill "to outlaw Protestant/Catholic sectarianism which has no business existing in Scotland anyway.and a lot less business existing in the beautiful game"........but that wouldn't be PC, would it..even when we all know what triggered it? The racist, homophobic, and (whisper it) anti-gypsy etc remarks/chants have already been addressed umpteen times elsewhere....both via the EU and UK wide laws ...and can, could have been, and probably were, prosecuted when complaints were made. Imo.no complaint....no hurt feelings and the recognition that it is good natured banter fan to fan....but that would be too commonsensical.....to look at time, place, context and level of offence caused. That is, imo, the one drawback of the internet..it does allow the completely irrational PC individual to spend their lives trawling the internet to find something which offends them...and when you add PC lip readers and Youtube to the mix......the complaints by people who were not actually there grow exponentially. Shades of Mary Whitehouse and her compaining to the Beeb about stuff she had never heard/seen .and the Beeb actually taking notice of her. Fan to individual player bigotry is a different matter altogether..but again the sectarian issue only applies to the numpties who support the Big 2..most of whom outside Glasgow don't do it because they know anything about the background, or even what they are celebrating/denigrating..but because it is part of the whole Rangers/Celtic rivalry and a learned behaviour. I guarantee that vast swathes of Celtic fans in the North are not Catholic....and while vast swathes of Rangers Fans may be theoretically Protestant....I'd guess most of both sets might put Church of Scotland on census forms, but never have entered any kind of church outside School end of term church services. I have always had Celtic as my second team after my home Highland League one, until ICT got into the Premier...and Celtic have now been relegated to third in my Saturday checking of scores, and ICT elevated to first...and my sister is a rabid Rangers supporter..and as far as I am aware supports no other team. Neither of us are religious, though technically brought up C of S..but we did, in our younger days do rivalry to the nth degree...she liked the Beatles, I liked the Stones, for example....and our choices of teams to support had less to do with the backgrounds of the teams and a lot more to do with hacking the other off..and going along with our friends. I do think that many clubs have the facility to police their own fans......I should think that ICT would be aware of those fans who buy tickets as ICT supporters and go to games against the Old Firm wearing Celtic/Rangers scarves, and I know there are some who do.......even if they support ICT all the rest of the time. Not easy to change attitudes......even when those who have the attitudes haven't a clue where they came from....but I think you should start locally to change attitudes...and if enough clubs do that then maybe, eventually , attitudes will start to change. Little point in Rangers and Celtic trying to remove the bile of sectarianism, when other clubs do not do the same.

Can I ask something which will come across as being really thick? But please bear in mind that I don't see a lot of footie nowadays, and haven't much since the late sixties, bar the odd time I have been able to organise being in the right place at the right time to take in an ICT game/u-19 ICT game. When I used to stand watching the game from the side of my local Highland League team's dugout in the 1960's and saw the very little of the action I could see from the same level as the players and the dugout, or the marginally better view given by standing on a small rise, none of it did much to let me see the width of the park, far less the length of it. I celebrated lots of Forres Mechanics goals without ever seeing them at all and cursed at a lot of opposing teams goals without ever seeing them either.! Anyway, I always used to wonder how the management could possibly overview a game, and judge player performance from the kind of limited view I had on the ground....and was always surprised on the very odd occasions, in them days, when managers used to get incandescent on being banished to the stand for some misdemeanor or other.because I always used to think that at least they could see from the stand what was actually happening on the pitch, as opposed to assuming that everybody they couldn't see was sticking to whatever the game plan was......because results very often showed that they could not possibly have been. And as football has become more technical and tactics have become more pre-planned, I was just wondering if Terry or one of the management team, during games, sits and watches the game from a seat in the stands, with a direct mobile phone or walkie talkie.connection to the dugout so that there is actually somebody who can see what the punter sees...........the shape of the team, the interaction between the team.members.in the various areas etc, the work rate and efficacy of the individuals in the team, how they read the game and how useful their off the ball running is. etc.. And if they don't, why don't they?

Come on Huisdean this is caleythistleonline , half these posters dont have a clue ! And the other half only think they have a clue. .

And won't half be a blow to the u-19 squad in the SFA youth cup!

Boys and their toys! I prefer Pokemon myself!

I just went on to paypal and sent it using the details from the time I sent the first one, as I found the same as you when I tried using links. I just hope it arrives.

Eve just let Adam think he discovered woman, when in fact Eve formed Adam out of the stuff she had just scraped off her foot in the Garden of Eden! And little of the rest applies to me, at least...bar possibly Chemical Properties #2.

Not as dottled as I thought. Remembered,.eventually, without help......so second payment on way.

I swear my mind is going. I thought I'd done the sponsorship after you so kindly changed my email address, Scotty.....but if I have, you haven't noticed....so I suspect that I haven't. Put me down for one £10 which I'll get off by paypal right now, (or as sure as Caithness is windy I'll forget again),,,,,and if you remind me after the 20th, I'll send another £10 (but I will need to be reminded as auld age has come and my memory tends to go walkabout!) Edited to add ......that's the first £10.75 sent.

Seems to me that if boys give up football because they don't get a letter thanking them for turning up to be coached when they have been let go, then they don't have the makings of a possible professional football player in the first place. Isn't the active encouragement in the coaching itself? I should think that you are talking about the (somewhat unrealistic) expectations of adults, and not those of the boys, because I would have expected all that to be said direct to a youth player at the interview...though he may not remember that part above his disappointment.

Doubtless because Scotland call-ups are not based solely on one game... and highly unlikely to be influenced by games played after the Call-Up...unlike the opinions of fickle fans who expect perfection from every player in every game

You are dead right that it will never be eradicated if the people who make the law and those who enforce it are spending all their time and energy scrutinising football while the Orange Order with impunity struts its triumphalist way as close as it can to Catholic areas, creating all the tension and resentment that it can muster. Unacceptable though sectarian behaviour at football most definitely is, it seems absurd to concentrate all the energies on football grounds while the Glorious Magnificent Lodge Loyal 1690 No Surrender FTP remains free to infect the community at large with its bigoted filth. A couple of weeks ago, as July 12th approached, I wrote to the relevant Scottish Executive minister Roseanna Cunningham and said largely that. I also suggested that sorting out the Orange Order was a far higher priority than football. I even put it to her that this wouldn't even be a vote losing policy since I couldn't imagine too many of Her Majesty's Bowler Hats and Umbrellas voting SNP in the first place. Spot on, CB.......it has always struck me as ironic that Glasgow, in Scotland, has more sectarian marches than Londonderry and Belfast in Northern Ireland combined do to celebrate an Irish Battle. And in Glasgow, Orange Order and affiliated marches are over 200 annually......while Hibernian and affiliated marches are less than 20. It is just as ironic that the Orange Order says on its website that The Protestant ethic is one of tolerance of other faiths and ideals. It is this tolerance and liberty that the Orange Order promotes and defends. Tolerant of other faiths......maybe they are........if that faith isn't Catholic. The Order appears to have a much bigger problem with Catholics than with any other religion in the world to the extent that they organise a couple of hundred marches a year specifically to celebrate the killing of Catholics in Ireland, and the imposition of Protestant rule in Ireland at the point of a gun. Doesn't seem a lot different, to me, to any display of triumphalism... no more useful or appropriate than if Unionists decided to have a march through Culloden and Inverness to celebrate the Battle of Culloden, the demise of the clan system and the Englishing of Scotland..or if people in the UK decided to march through Dresden to celebrate the Dresden bombings. The Orange Order and their biases are instrumental in continuing and reinforcing an irrational outlook, particularly in the Central Belt, which has no place in this 21st Century and must be controlled. Perhaps the simplest way would be to make them pay for all the policing of all their marches and bankrupt them. Given we have laws which are aimed at combating the incitement to violence, I have never quite understood why nobody has yet made a test case citing sectarian marches. Maybe it would also help if our Government joined the 21st century and realised that it makes them look much more than foolish when a member of the Royal Family is permitted to marry into any religion except Catholicism without harming their position.........so we can have a Muslim, Jewish, Moonie, Mormon, Pagan etc consort for the monarch......but not a Catholic. Rational? I think not!

Make it ?20 from me as well.........and given it would take me forever, I'm guessing it will take you less than that..........say 6 and a half hours!

Thats 10 Lol.Foran ain't a sub!

Penalty scored by McGleish 1-0 Rovers 26 minutes according to Twitter

Up until about a month ago Kevin McCann was still an ICT player according to ICTFC.co.uk so wouldnt be my first port of call to check. As previously stated on numerous occasions, the player info and stats on the official site are taken care of by a third party via the website provider. They are frequently inaccurate and almost always not up to date. This is currently being addressed and should be sorted in about 11 days and 23 hours time ! Is that going to apply to the Under-19s and youth sides as well as the first team? For all of last season and up until now, according to the squad profiles, the Under 19s consisted of just eleven players, some of whom have already gone to pastures new.....and it would be good to get the odd result from the under 19 and youth squads..........even if only those from the games ICT bother to tell us about.

So would you be one of the individuals who has given Mahonio three red dots in total for taking the proverbial out of himself? I'm afraid it very much does look like abuse because of personality clashes to me, rather than any effort to respond appropriately to posts actually made. Personally, if I can't give a green dot, I don't give any. I have never been on a forum before which allows members the option to denigrate other members posts without having to have the courage to put their names to their opinions. Red dots are the coward's reaction. After all, why would a discussion forum allow people not to have to discuss? I can see the point of the green dots as a plethora of "I agrees" would be rather monotonous...but red dots are disagreeing with something, which would, in a real discussion forum, require a few words of explanation. (And Mahonio.....try bolding words you want to emphasise......that arouses less ire than using Capitals on a forum...and smilies like rather than exclamation marks )

Nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but I notice that Mahonio has, in two posts attracted 6 red dots for what appeared to me, having no prior history with him/her, pretty innocuous posts according to the level on this forum......so maybe it is about time the management/mods were thinking about removing or drastically limiting a system which appears to be so open to abuse.

Getting picked up by a bigger team at better money wouldn't practically guarantee him a regular game as it does here. As there is no fence-sitter option on the poll, I haven't voted.......but I'm of the opinion that another year of pretty well guaranteed appearances if he is fit, at his age, can only improve his game....and help him make a real impact on a bigger stage when he moves on. (Never really understood the obsession youngsters have to get into the big money when that very often means not getting a regular game..and often not even bench-warming. Hope too many of our U-19s don't feel like that.)

Sounds a bit like soft-hearted me trying to tell a farmer pal that he shouldn't be selling a cow which is costing money to feed, but is only producing calves every third or fourth AI try compared to the others, just because she is the lead cow of the herd and is a good influence on the others. I say let TB manage as he sees fit.

That's still excluding the OF. You call yourself "The Real SPL" yet your entire idea/site is based around pretending two teams just don't exist...is that meant to be some kind of irony and I'm somehow missing the punchline? The foundations upon which it is set will only serve to give the powers that be something else to use to undermine the word of the fans and anyone who tries to give it any kind of legitimacy will only serve to do more harm than good. By all means, have your fantasy league. On that basis I think it will draw interest in terms of curiosity or novel distraction, but it is certainly not an idea on which to base any kind of serious campaign. What Scottish football needs right now is for people to be putting their time and effort into campaigning for proper workable ideas and solutions to the problems being faced....a league without the OF is about as far removed from that as you can get right now. Oh dear this has struck a raw nerve for some reason. Don't think the people behind this website are under any illusions that it IS just a fantasy league. What's wrong with that? If it is a campaign it seems to me to be merely about trying to highlight the fact that the OF are not the be all and end all of Scottish football. Presumably you think it's ok that Rangers and Celtic have constantly agitated to leave the SPL for well over a decade now, and no doubt would have already gone if anybody had actually wanted them. Such actions have undermined the viability of the SPL far more than publicising a league table without them in it would do. Certainly I was aware on clicking the like button that it was a virtual fantasy league. Virtual because they said as much and fantasy because the OF are still taking part in Scottish football and are not going to disappear any time soon. I like it because it will be interesting to see what the positions of the various clubs in a league without the OF would be......and it saves me having to work it out for myself. In response to CaleyD....what has happened to date, bar the putting off of a vote until they think they can get the result they want, makes you even contemplate that the powers-that-be in the SPL are listening to or even interested in proper workable ideas and solutions to the problems being faced?

The other 10 teams in the SPL, excluding the Edinburgh derby, get their biggest home crowds against the OF so they really do have a massive influence on the amount of people that watch and attend scottish football games. Without them every other SPL team would get less people through the door, hence less money - we do benefit from their inclusion in the SPL so don't really get what this site is all about? And if the SPL was a level playing field, and the OF were treated in exactly the same way as every other team, are you telling me that all their fans will stop supporting them, nobody will ever go to their games and the telly won't want to have them on it? And do they not also benefit from their inclusion in the SPL.............or do you know offhand anywhere else in the world jumping up and down to have them play in their leagues? At least in the SPL they are getting a game. That attitude is the one the OF relies on to maintain their position as the clubs who dictate to the SPL ......and there are far too many fans who believe the OF's PR.

BBC reporting that Annabel Goldie has cancelled the Scottish Election on May 5th due to not having enough support to become First Minister. Lobbying the electorate to change their minds will continue however. ROFLMAO! Bet they would if they could! At least Doncaster doesn't expect them to vote interminably until they get it right, like the EU does! But I have to agrre with CaleyD......sensible ideas are sensible ideas which should not require the additional and compulsory acceptance of a ludicrous and previously proven bad idea to be put into effect.. Smacks of blackmail, imo. And it begs the question....is Scottish football run mainly for the benefit of the investors in Rangers and Celtic...and other "top" teams which think they, like the banks, "are too big to fail", even if they have been playing silly buggers with their finances.......rather than for the good of Scottish Football as a whole......because that is definitely the impression being given.

I'm one who doesn't think you are full of sh1t, CaleyD...as you might notice from some of your post reps. I am very much of the same opinion as you. It seems to me that the Dundee fans have the same arrogant mindset as our banking institutions have had ... ie...."we are too big and important to fail" ....so we don't have to do the moral thing.just the thing which ensures we can still exist and profit. So bankers pushed the envelope well past the level which is acceptable to the average citizen, if not the Government.......just as Dundee FC has pushed it past what is acceptable to the average football punter if not the SFA.. Nothing to do, really, as to rivalry.......just as to what is right, fair and equitable as perceived by those who have been there....and those who may well be there in the future. The only teams who have been there are Livingston and Gretna...everybody else has not yet achieved the status of living well outside their means....TWICE.......and are prepared to accept the same sanctions as Dundee FC if they were so monumentally stupid to do so in their future.. As an ICT supporter, though admittedly not one who injects much into the ICT income due to distance from Inverness, I would be sickened past redemption if ICT were to trash the incomes of 116 other individual people/companies (ignoring the government HMRC) to ensure ICT survived at the expense of 116 other entities with employees to be maintained.....because they have no other thought but as to how little they can get off with paying to creditors in order to ensure ICT's existence .....and the consequences to the employees of the 116 creditor comanies is nothing to do with them. Sure, there is a difference between illegal and moral......but is it not a sign of our times that there is a difference between illegal and immoral?

<rant on> Given that the current SPL set-up, mostly, bar the very odd most welcome bookies' aberration if you are inclined to bet on something such as ICT holding one or other of the OF to a draw, is the most mindbendingly boring set up in existence....what makes the SFA think that reducing the number of teams is the way to go....except to increase the take for the ten left....and to hell with every other team in Scottish football? Being cynical, I do wonder if the ten will be chosen on merit at the end of the season according to league placements if Aberdeen ends up 11th or twelfth or if they reserve the right to do picky and choosy depending on the wishes of the Central Belt Shoo-in clubs.. We can do logic and query whether 42 senior teams in four leagues with a few teams in a few of those leagues paying really relatively silly money to players, are sustainable at all in Scotland, even at the self-important level of Rangers and Celtic, with an average possible attendance, if every soul from babes in arms to old women on zimmers were to attend, of 123,000 per team, when you consider that England, without including the population of Wales could, using a whip, "encourage" nearly 560,000 punters of all ages to turn up and pay at the gate. Or we can do realism..and acknowledge that the SPL is run by the OF for the OF...and the SFA does not have the backbone of an amoeba. As a one-time...and long-time...Celtic Supporter, who has, over the years, gradually become more and more hacked off by the influence of the Old Firm on Scottish Football to its detriment, I think that it is well past time Rangers and Celtic were put in their place as one of many and not the be-all and end-all of Scottish football. After all, if the Engish Premiership don't want them, (and they don't appear to want them, despite pleading), what option do they have but play where they are...and in that case, why should they be any more favoured than any other club? How come Dundee went into administration with a lot less debt, while Rangers are still running, but not in official administration attracting penalties....but bank administration just the same. The difference in pure chancer level is what, exactly? The OF may have been giants in football terms at one time...but no longer...and why on earth should the SFA kowtow to their image of themselves as the most important clubs in Scotland when the only reason they are the best is because they, unlike other teams don't have to live in the real world because there is always someone prepared to make allowances for them..and because there is a plethora (and I admit I was once one of them) of punters who do glory rather than football? I always remember the Lisbon Lions of 1967, when every player was born within 30 miles of Glasgow.......and looking at the Ne-erday team of this year, I was struggling very hard to find a Scotsman in the named squad and bench of either team. And, in the end, that is not good for Scottish International football...because I am not convinced that every Scottish kid taken up and then let go by the OF is crap....but there is a tendency for the SFA to assume that if they don't play in the SPL/English Premiership after 19 they are not worth looking at....and it is a laughable situation that those scouts paid (I assume) big bucks by the SFA to find suitable Scotland contenders appear to wait for coaches to point them at kids outside the incestuous Central Belt, rather than turning up at games all over the country and actually doing the job for which they are paid. Scottish Football, a bit like Politics, is a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" set up, and, while I have always hated Quangos with a passion....Scottish football is one place where a Quango of punters, rather than CEOs may just inject an element of realism into the irrationality of Club owners looking to add money to their back pockets by reducing the options so less clubs are getting a share of the available pot. I'd much rather have a Scotland team of Scots doing relatively well in World football than an SPL team, in which you can count the Scots on two or three fingers, taking every European title in the firmament......but then, maybe I'm weird. </rant off>