Oddquine

As some would say you are Not anyone that knows me . But everybody who reads this forum and doesn't know you can only go by how you, and others, come across on here......and you do rather come across as lukemackay has described you.

No sorry dont buy this! He is ICT manager and its his job to turn up as it was ICT v Ross County in the first half. He would not have got booed and I doubt he would even have got much stick. He could have watched from the hospitality area if he wanted. He missed some good performances from the younger players by not being there. BTW in not giving Russell and Grant new contracts Terry Butcher was just doing what he felt was right at the time ie his job. and although I dodnt agree with him I respect his right to make it.I think the damned if he did option was the one he should have taken in many fans eyes. He is the ICT manager, certainly....but he had.... as far as I can see...... absolutely bugger all to do with the testimonial....if you read the Testimonial FB page. I'd have been very surprised if the team wasn't picked from volunteers to play, as opposed to Butcher choosing it and making them play. Re the He would not have got booed and I doubt he would even have got much stick comment........you have a lot more faith in the decency of the usual suspect ICT "supporters" who post on here than I have after nearly three years of reading them...but then you may know them personally and know they whine on here for the sake of something to say........I don't and can only go by what I read. And, given the fact that it was a celebration of what Munro and Duncan did for the club in their years here......the fact that you can even say I doubt he would even have got much stick simply illustrates that you know that there would have been some who would have been arseholes just because they could. The Ross County forum for football supporting as opposed to carping is much better value than this one, tbh. A lot less hard on the blood pressure, anyway. Anyway...do any of you know that he hadn't already spoken to Grant, Russell and the testimonial committee before he decided to not turn up and the reasons he gave for that decision? He has no obligation to tell us anything, even if you all think you own all his time.

Given the fact that this thread is in the danger of, or has succeeded in, turning into a kick Terry Butcher one, rather than a praise Munro and Duncan one, maybe Butcher had an inkling of the way some ICT fans would react if he did turn up and decided to spare everybody at the testimonial the satisfaction of of making their day by booing him and possibly spoiling the day for Grant and Russell...and took the sensible course for the benefit of all......particularly of those who did the hard work of organising all the Testimonial for them. As CaleyD said, damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

Then you are going to be hoping we have to do the whole player change all over again next season, given 12 of the current squad of poor players are out of contract. Much better to start again, all over again from scratch, than re-sign poor players, don't you think, even if they manage to stay injury free and have a season's experience under their belts? Time to call for heads, imo, is when/if Butcher signs the core set of players he thinks will do a job next season, and they don't. Personally, I think the players have to take as much of the stick as the manager...because they are paid to do a job.....and they are not doing it remotely consistently. If they were surgeons, I'd be terrified of going under a knife they were wielding on a day when they were in "can't be bothered" mode. Mistakes can be forgiven, not trying can't.

Yep......I agree with A reserve team can be what you want it to be But is there any great need for a dedicated reserve league? Without a "reserve league" now, we play "a reserve team"....in Cup competitions under Highland League auspices we play "a reserve team", in bounce games we often play "a reserve team", in friendlies we often play "a reserve team". They may not be officially called that....but that is really what they are... a mix of those of the first team squad needing match practice and under-19s. I haven't seen any detail as to how an under 20 league will be set up...but if it is on the same lines as the under 19 one, with much the same wage structure then it would save the likes of the situation, which has happened in the past, and which would be likely to happen at the end of this season when kids are dumped....not because they aren't decent players but because they aren't perceived as being exceptional players. If holding on to the currently good, but not great, players won't mean first team professional contracts and the increased wage bill, then that would only help the club to grow their options. I'm of the opinion that it would be much better to have our own nucleus of 19+year olds who have been brought up within the ICT system, and with some ICT loyalty, getting a chance in preseason trials than assuming because a 19+ year old has been released from/isn't getting a game in one of the English leagues that they are better just because the English leagues are perceived to be better so it follows that a discard from there has got to be better than anything we can produce ourselves.

ROFLMAO!

No fun without them, though! Conspiracy theories are the stuff of forums......even football ones...so don't expect them to ameliorate any time soon! Seems to me that if you are going to have people injecting money into ICT, regardless of whether they get anything out of it for themselves or not, you are much better off with people who have Inverness family connections than with Craig Whyte types.....if only for the fact that it is more likely that they aren't going to take the proverbial....because, while they might be out of the direct firing line, being overseas based....their relations in Inverness won't be.....and relations can kick arse with the best. If we all had the spare cash wouldn't we all do the same, not specifically for personal aggrandisement, but to help out our team while at the same time protecting our investment. The only time, imo, that people might hand over money without having overview as to how it is used is if they win the Euro Lottery and have money to burn.......if you earn it by the sweat of yours (or your employees') brows....why would you want to hand it over to others to possibly waste? No idea what the Inverness Caledonian Trust is about tbh...but I don't feel that the first comment on the article in the link provided to the Courier is helpful at all.....and is edging towards a conspiracy theory on the same lines as the Illuminati/Bildenburg/Freemasons/ nine-eleven/the moon landing was a hoax/ New World Order ones, but one with more local impact than world relevance.

Like the Their consortium, which has injected an initial £250,000 into Caley Thistle last month. Initial implies there might be more. Doesn't it?

Don't usually postpone bounce games (or advertise them come to that).....just call them off..so it does look as if it was part of the transfer deal for signing Shane Sutherland and still to be fulfilled. Though not I don't suppose very soon. With my kind of luck, I'll bet it is the next time I'm away from home and not able to make it...like the 2nd week in May.

I would.....but my phone just texts and phones. Failing any other more high tech option, happy to text team, subs and scoring to anyone one who wants to post it on here if they give me their number.......but be warned......at my texting speed, Joe DiMaggio will have arrived home, produced and uploaded his game report before I get the final score sent out.

I'm in Lybster....but have hopefully rustled up a lift through.......or more importantly given the buses (or lack of them)....a lift back! Lol! It has calmed down weather wise here now. Fingers crossed it's the same in Wick..and that it lasts.

Might be a "kickabout" to ICT....but I'll bet it won't be perceived that way by Wick Academy. Weather pretty crappy though.

I'll be there as well. Not often I get to a game! I'll be the wizened old wifie at the side of the stand!

Heard it is a strong team going up.......but anybody know kick off time for sure? I think half seven.......but not certain.

If they can pull it off...and I'm not holding my breath....it would be a good move. If the usual suspects don't want to join......then they have the option not to join...and can play each other home and away weekly until the telly gets as hacked off with them as we are. As a Celtic supporter (my third preferred team)...I would welcome a week without Neil Lennon's incessant whining.......because he is rapidly putting me off Celtic after fifty plus years of armchair following.

For those members here who support ICT now, for whatever reason, but are not Invernessians, have never seen Caley or Thistle playing.....or only ever seen them playing against the Highland League team they supported (and then they could cheerfully have consigned the whole of either Inverness team to the lower reaches of hell on matchdays), the regular "I wish we hadn't merged.......Caley or Thistle could have done it on their own.....and fantasising about what might have been" posts are getting even more wearing than the "we should never have released Grant Munro ones". Acceptance of facts on the ground which cannot be changed is the sign of maturity. As my mother used to say.what can't be cured must be endured.

Noticed this today http://www.scotsman.com/news/spl-tv-deal-gang-of-ten-could-quit-league-over-votes-reform-1-2199629 Out of interest..could the impoverished 10 set up their own rival SDFL (Scottish Democratic Football League) and just leave the big 2 to play each other every week for the rest of their existence. Even the TV companies would get fed up with that as an option.

Celtic supporter from fairly young, 'cos sister (still) supports Rangers, but was not really interested that much in football..more interested in the arguments supporting opposing teams produced..but the Celtic/Rangers thing was passed down to the offspring on each side..and to the grandchildren. I blame myself for that. Forres Mechanics supporter from the time I was old enough to be allowed to attend games on my own, then work selling tickets for the stand and head to away games on the team bus (supporters who travelled rarely travelled in enough numbers to warrant their own bus in them days). Have to admit that I haven't really come to terms with the modern fitba game. I still think 1 is the goalie, 2 is the right back, 3 is the left back, etc. and squad numbers on team lineups muddle me up immensely because I don't really know what they should be doing in the tactical scheme of things any more. Got into ICT more through knowing kids from outside Inverness picked up by the youth system and following them via the Courier reports around seven/eight years ago...and liking what I read about the ICT set up and in Courier game reports, so I googled and got pointed here and to the original ICT official site. Though, tbh. if I could have read here without joining, I likely would have......but I am glad I couldn't, because I kinda appreciate the ability to pontificate without knowledge of much at all.(I do notice I am pontificating more as I get older and more opinionated..but I still don't attempt to understand or comment on game tactics, team lineups and the performances of players when I haven't yet worked out what they are meant to be doing on the field bar giving 100%) ICT has, to my mind, retained the "family club" Highland League ethos in an SPL in which many/most of the other teams are frantically chasing success/money even to the point of bankruptcy........and I hope that never changes. An aside......... I'm looking forward to Ross County getting into the SPL and playing in Dingwall because I will be able to plant myself on a cousin in Ross-shire and drag her along to ICT/Ross County Derby games (or to shop while I attend games) so I can actually watch ICT playing, rather than just spend match days on the Match thread here listening to the Beeb. It's fun but not the same watching games against Wick Academy in Wick, because I can get there relatively easily, or games in Forres against Forres Mechanics because I happen to be down at the sister for the weekend. I've never managed to be in Inverness en route to elsewhere when ICT has been at home in the SPL, though I have managed a couple of u-19 games at the stadium over the years.

As someone whose almost ex played for the Mechanics in the mid 1960s, and who still checks their scores after ICT and before Celtic .....love it!

Bearing in mind I know nothing about football.and your hypothetical is pretty woolly anyway......I have an opinion. Is it in the normal contracts of all players that they are obliged to do PR stuff for ICT in the community if requested, or is it an optional extra they can refuse? And by extra training, do you mean the extra training "punishment" the day or so after a really poor game? If the first is not the case, then all players are, it seems to me, at liberty to refuse participation because they are volunteers. If I were manager, I'd be noting those who volunteer to participate and adding brownie points to any decision making process as to their contract extensions so that those who are decent players. but not interested in/prepared to participate in club/local community cohesion are less likely to get contract extensions than those who do. But I'd be much more worried about team cohesion, in your scenario, if some team members p1ssed off after the Saturday game and turned up again on Friday for the next game (particularly if they were not just permanently bench warmers)....so I'd not be allowing any employee of mine to dictate their work practices, however fantastic their abilities were....because if those abilities do not translate into playing in a system for which they have never trained to understand, and nobody else in the team have any idea where they fit into the system they have spent all week training towards implementing......what use are they really? If you could just pick good players up and throw them into a mix without any team training...why do International teams bother getting squads together to train for internationals at all? If the first is the case, then it should be possible to organise it so the player who doesn't want to move to the area can still meet his obligations during the likes of school holidays, when his family can come up with him.(if he is Messi and you are prepared to have him dictate what he will accept). But having said that. I wonder if there is a tendency for the club to use the more popular players to the exclusion of others,,.. because, bearing in mind I can only go by what is reported in the Courier, it seems to me that, of the whole squad, relatively few are consistently reported in community activity articles...and mostly the same few. In the second case, re extra training...nobody should be exempt.and the player who would normally be heading down the road after a game should just have to accept that he has to put his travel plans off a day or so. But I have to admit, if it I was manager...and an prospective player said " I won't sign up unless you let me do this, that and the other" ..I 'd be advising him to find himself a team which thinks, as he does, that he is an individual more important than the team and the club.

Second win of the season.......Killie u19s 2 ICT u19s 3.. They lost the last game at home against Killie 4-3.so maybe starting to gel. But if next season the u19s are those born after 1/1/1994 (not sure how it works, tbh), at the least Jack Sutherland,Tom Smith, Martin Laing, Andy Greig and Calum Dingwall, that I am pretty sure of, will be too old...and it is likely to mean that many replacements from the under 17s to make up numbers..so back to square one? I'm ambivalent re a reserve league or an under 21/23/25 or whatever league with some overage players as a staging post to give a level between u19 and first team football, so it is feasible for clubs to grow their own players,...though, as far as I know, the bounce games arranged sometimes for match fitness/practice for first team players have a proportion of under 19s participating....so I can't see why a reserve/under whatever age league wouldn't work much the same.......though a reserve league with no top age limits would likely be more useful re satisfying the need for match practice for peripheral/injured players and the need to blood under 19s. It is, after all, unlikely, at least in the short/medium term, we would ever have the equivalent of two signed teams of first team players plus first team bench warmers needing regular games....and I can't see more than the usual suspects managing to afford to sign that size of squad anyway, so most clubs would be in the same boat. But then I don't know a lot about football...and I still haven't worked out if the powers that be in the SPL and SFA have any more insight re football than I do, as the commonsense and pragmatic approach seems never to be an option in their scheme of things.

What do you mean disappeared? He hasn't disappeared any more than any of the rest of the under 19 squad has in the ICT frame of reference regarding being any part of the whole extended ICT set-up. He's still playing for them.as are all the rest.

I take everybody's points. If I lived in that neck of the woods, and could attend youth games (or first team ones) with any kind of regularity, I'd be happy to do reports etc....but, as it is, I rely on the internet for my football fixes...and one of my fixes are the youth teams I have followed via the Courier reports since the reports started to be published. The coverage of the first team on this site is superb, no question.....but there is even less regarding the youth sides than there was on the old site.and that wasn't up to much. I kinda liked being able to follow the progress of boys up through the age groups to the under 19s and beyond. I even watch out for those names I recognise, but who are no longer here, if I know where they are playing now. OK......I know I'm sad......but I am harmless, if opinionated. Doofer's Dad, it wasn't so much what you said it was more the way you said...what got me was mostly the If the under 19s appear to be not just not doing too well, but to be actually completely outclassed, then that must raise some questions about the current youth set up. I always understood our youth set up to be very good. Perhaps there is just a poor peer group locally in that age group. You could have just said, "Has something gone wrong with the youth set up that we don't know about?"...and I'd not have ranted as much. Sorry!

I should think you are correct in your second paragraph, lukemackay. There is not a thing wrong with the under-19s.......they are doing the best they can with what they have. How do you define outclassed anyway? Would outclassed be playing utter p1sh, as the first team has done more than once? Or would it be giving 100% and being unlucky in front of goal, as the first team has on more than one occasion as well.....or maybe having a referee who wouldn't know the rules of the game if they bit him on the bahookey? How would anyone from ICT not at the games know the under-19s had been outclassed anyway........given that the only place you get more than a straight scoreline in a fixture table is on the under-19 pages of just about every other SPL team...but not on the non-existent under-19 (or any other youth squads) pages on this one, I note........and the other team's reports don't even usually give the ICT team line-up, far less acknowledge that there was any other team on the pitch but theirs. If we are going to do logical and realistic, as opposed to the small nucleus of ICT support who do wishful thinking and fantasy to an embarrassing degree, we will accept that a relatively small team, in SPL terms, has a catchment area for a youth set up much smaller in population of an appropriate age, though a lot larger in area than most, if not all the other SPL Teams. But the number of acres in a catchment area does not negate the fact that if that acre is occupied only by sheep, or windmills, or peat bogs, or forests etc,.....there are no prospective footballers to be pulled into an ICT youth system. The Highlands, including Inverness and Nairn, at the 2001 census, had 4% of the population of Scotland........which means we have much the same population as Aberdeen City, without the rural periphery, have half the population of the city of Edinburgh and a sixth of the population of Glasgow.....and that does not include all the Central Belt between and around both. Add to that, the economic restraints under which ICT has to operate, which means that the option to cross the world, as the biggest SPL clubs can, and poach those that they perceive as the best from anywhere in the world at lesser transfer cost than if they were already full time first team professionals does not exist..so the catchment area for youth players for some SPL teams expands exponentially...but not for ICT. The same economic restraints will also limit the intake to the ICT youth system from elsewhere in Scotland, because, if you sign a youngster, there is an obligation to maintain that individual away from home...which could be anywhere from Orkney/Shetland down and, in the current, or even the past economic climate, the cost of digs does/did not come cheap.......so the obvious option is to go for prospects who live fairly locally, and whose parents are prepared to ferry them everywhere they are needed at no cost to ICT. We had no under-19 squad in the relegation year....so much of what we had then were let go to save money. We held on to what was perceived as the best of the under-19s, as in Ross, G Shinnie, Morrison and Sutherland...so in the first year back in the SPL, nine under-17s were pulled into it...good and fairly successful under-17s when paying at their own level...and augmented (as far as I'm aware, because reporting on, or even mentioning, anything but the first team on any ICT official site, either this one or the old version, appears to be something which is not perceived to interest the punter who doesn't think much beyond the next SPL game, so accurate information is at the level of piles of hobby horses' droppings) by the new signings eligible age-wise to participate. Ergo we played the under-19 games in 2010/1011 with a nucleus of a squad which had never faced a team anything up to four years older and a lot more physically developed. And this season, six of that squad were let go, rightly or wrongly, and another eight of the then current under 17 squad were brought in.......so this season was always liable to be a repeat of the previous one. (I can't speak for the success of the under-17 squad from which the players were taken, because it is a long time now since the Courier gave reports on ICT youth teams....something they regularly did in the years up to the beginning of 2010.......they seem to be just as disinclined as this website/forum is to consider youth teams as a part of ICT's future.) So not a lot different, with respect to the under-19s imo, as to what Terry has been doing with the first team....cutting his coat according to his cloth, and doing the best he can with what is available, with the view of benefiting ICT. In the case of the under-19s, that would be in spotting and encouraging players who are capable of becoming first team players in the future. The under-19 league is no less a development one than any from the under 11 ones, up...even if the fact that the Clydesdale Bank sponsors it makes appear as something more important in the scheme of competition and the "my team are better than your team" stakes. At no time have either Terry or Charlie Christie ever even suggested that any more than a few of those moving up to the under-19s are capable of reaching the highest levels, natural ability, attitude and freedom from injury permitting..and I should think the same applies to the 130 or so young people within the whole youth system. A youth system is only as good as the players available for it to train......and a youth system in the Highlands will, with the best will in the world, never have as many players coming through who are capable of playing at the highest levels as the same system in any big city. Next season might see an improvement......unless the powers that be decide to do the same again and replace half or more of the squad, rather than just moving out those who will be over-age by next season and no longer eligible to play.......in which case, it will be same old, same old.

To do with Grow a Beard for the Archie Foundation? <sorry.thought I'd quoted alternative maryhill post #23>