Huisdean

Like some other posters, I really fail to see why there is so much unrelenting negativity against some of the players. Sure Tade had 3 bad misses yesyerday, and on another day this could have come back to haunt us but id didn't. What some people have to remember is that to score goals, you have to be in the correct positions and make the correct runs. Tade is doin this brilliantly but his finishing is letting him down and needs to get worked on pronto. Disappointing to see some of the commenst from some posters who just listened to the game on the radio yesterday. This was possibly out best home performance to date and some really good football was played in all areas yesterday. St. Mirren were supposedly the form team going into yesterdays game and supposedly playing a really attractive type of football. Well yesterday, there was onlt one team playing exciting football and it wasn't St. Mirren. If the score had been 5-1 yesterday, it would not have been an injustice and the same could have been said for the Hearts match. I don't think I have seen the team create so many chances as they have done this season and someone is going to be on the end of a good thrashing from us very soon. Finally, a word about Andrew Shinnie yesterday. I admit to not being terribly impressed in previous games I have seen him play but yesterday he was tremendous and showed a great deal of skill in both linking play and getting forward. Yet after the Dundee Utd game, he was getting real abuse from fans over his performance. All this tells me is that some fans need to take a look at themselves before resorting to shouting abuse at our players and appreciate how difficult it can be to plat football at time. It is a team game and the singling out of individuals at times, by sections of our support, is dreadful ans so counter productive.

Totally agree. Too many fans think they can shout abuse at players & managers the whole game then complain loudly when they have a go back. This is not exclusive to ICT but some fans need to remember this. Also can we please stop harping on about the players let go in the summer. We are trying to play a different way and Munro cnnot play that way (witness the display against Celtic tonight, same old hoofs up the park. We are not the only team struggling just now but no team has had the injuries we have. Some fans sem to forget that the majority of the injuries are to first team players and their deputies are either not yet at the same standard or the loan signings have still to prove their worth.

I think we may be guaranteed a sending off on Saturday!!.

So why did we finish 7th then? I am with you on most of what you say, but this whole "We had a team capable of top 6" thing is a load of pish. We've been close to top 6 on a couple of occasions and done the "just a few changes" thing and it's made no difference. Butcher felt it needed more radical action, and all respect to him for having the gonads to take the chance in doing what he did. Munro and Duncan were club heroes, I get that, but they weren't single handedly bringing success to the club. People need to get over it and move on. As I've said before, I'm not expecting top 6 this season. You have to be VERY fortunate to make such a big change and see immediate success from it. For me, this season is building season and as frustrating as that might be for the fans, we have to look at what the change in style and attitude might bring long term. I remember being at a seminar about change...or more specifically, knowing when not to change. If you really believe everything you're doing is right and the results are bad then is it really you, or is it external forces? If it's external forces, can you change to counter them and if/when they change again can you quickly adapt back or is it better to ride the storm and see your plan through. It's easy to witness failure and believe change is the answer....but it's not always. Granted, I would have hoped for a bit more than what we're witnessing at present, but when you look beyond the results at the games then there's really not a lot that needs to change for these results to be going the other way. A wee rub of the green and some of the shots that hit the woodwork find the back of the net, a few players back from injury and the chance to play a formation that is selected and not forced upon us and everything changes. IMO this is the first time in a long time a manager at ICT has the "luxury" of succeeding or failing by his own hand. He's got his team out there playing things his way and only time will tell whether he got it right or wrong. Being just a handful of games into the season is not the time to be judging, it's the time to be getting right behind the manager and team to give them every opportunity of making the plan succeed. I've lost count of the number of times over they years that ICT have won games and the opposition fans were saying "we should never have lost to them". The show is on the other week. It's not nice, but sometimes chit happens and you just have to get up, brush yourself down and get on with it. Agree with most of what you say Caley D, and think we will come good. The only thing that does concern me is that so many of the players are signed for only 1 year. If they do not sign on again at the end of the season, we could be in the boat as this year. Does anyone know why so many players were only signed for 1 year?.

Absolute nonsense. No team has a divine right to win any game and, while we might win these games 9 times out of 10, there is always the chance the "underdog" will win. For example, ICt beating Celtic twice, Aberdeen losing to QofS, Stenhousemuir, Rangers losing to Hamilton years ago. These things happen in football which is why it is the sport it is.

Unless someone releases more money, or an exceptional loan deal is arranged, I don't think any money available to add to the squad.

Unfortunately he isn't

Like the Jedward touch!. Will the game sell out though?. I think, if it doesn't, the policy needs to be reviewed

IHE - do you think Dougal will even remotely understand this!!!

If I was Terry i'd fine him a weeks wages for his part in the disallowed goal debcale, he single handedly lost the club two points yesterday :irritated: I thought the club had learnt their lesson by signing lower league strikers(Barrowman) but it appears sadly not dougal What absolute nonsense to say he single handedly cost us 2 points yesterday. The score was 2-1 remenber when this happened and it was 3-2 to us when the free kick conceded for the equaliser. I really despair at some of the comments here. Looks like Tade is going to be the new whipping boy for many. Give the guy a chance, not just 3 games eh.

The critiscm of Tade for scoring is a bit harsh. Firstly, was he actually offside when Foran headed the ball and secondly, how many times do you see players dong this, ball going in and they rush in to score still. I have never, in 40 years of watching football, seen a goal given offside for this. I would also like to know the exact rules for this, as if ball was going in anyway, which it looked like it was, should this have been given offside as the referee can still award a goal and not a penalty if the ball goes in the net in a similar situation. As I also said last week, good to see linesmen can see something as specific as that but still get obvious things like throw ins, fouls etc wrong. Some of the comments made here are again away over the top. Last week, against Hibs, goddish second half performance again but the defense was the week spot, same as yesterday. This will happen until team gels into a real unit and don't forget, a lot of the new signings have no experience of the SPL. I think Tokely deserves one more chance but if it doesn't go well, then he must be benched for a while. It must be remembered that Hogg has had little or no pre seasonso any issues should be with the management throwing him in before he was 100% ready. Johndo, your comments on Doran are a bit harsh, playing Ross ahead of him everyweek. Doran changed the game when he came on against Hibs when Nick Ross was doing nothing. The same thing happened yesterday but in reverse. This will happen with young players and it may be they will rotate throughout the season. Doran is definately more of a threat out wide, and a better goalscorer than Ross so maybe Ross will have to move inside.

My understanding is the foul is given where the offence occurred so if outside the box, that is where the foul is. The referee has the option of seeing how play develops before blowing for a foul which the referee actually did a couple of times in the game. Regardless of that, standard on display on Saturday from officials was still dreadful. I don't think anyone minds if refs make honest mistakes (offside decision for goal) but to get so many relatively simple decisions wrong is shocking. Until refs understand that this is spectators main grievance, outside of old form numpties, the level of abuse they get, and some of that is unacceptable to be fair, will simply increase. The remedy for reducing a lot of this abuse therefore is in the referees own hands.

Mmm I'm not so sure. I seen back a few times now and while it is tight, using Foran's foot and the line as a guide, I think he's just off and no more. A couple if inches maybe, but I think he's JUST off. What irks me though is that Linesmen can spot that, and there looked to be inches in it, but fail to see blatant handballs or the tackle on Foran for the last penalty claim.

Pretty much agree with most that has been said. makings of a good team coming together and a much more open attacking style of play looks like it is on the cards this season. As other posters have said, the team needs time to gel in all areas of the team but my first impressions are positive and I sure goals will come. I wasn't at the Motherwell game so don't know if our defensive performance improved from that game but after a shakey start yesterday they improved. However, Gilet was poor defensively, as he looks to be when faced with a winger and only his peed and tenacity helps him out. He also seems to have little positional sense at times and gets sucked infield far too much. I also thought Tokely did not have one of his best ganes, reasonably solid defensively but "Munroesque" distribution. At least now, there is compettition is most areas of the team so players have to be on top of their game. Onwards and upwards!

Rooney (who didn't exactly set the heather on fire for the majority of last season) I beg to differ as he was one of our best players last season even when not scoring and he really came on as a player. Had the potential to be one of the best ever signings for us before he moved away.

Agree! it would be a dull world if we all just followed the party line like sheep and didnt woice our opinions. I was brought up to toe the line and be respectful of others opinions. But...................!

Let's be honest, if this guy was the finished product, we would have no chance of signing him. I think he has potential and it is up to the maangement/coaching team to help him achieve this potential. A gamble perhaps but all signings are that in the market we deal in.

Many posters have, in the past, taken the club to task for a lack of ambition. An example of this is when the club would say our aim is to finish 11th and avoid relegation. Lots of posters have come on and said we should aim much higher than this. Well that is what we seem to be doing now as what we have tried in the past hasn't really worked and moved the club forward to the next level. After our first spell in the SPL, had we really moved forward as a teama nd a club, don't think we really did and squandred some good opportunities to take the club forward. For that the blame lay with various managers and the Board. I think we now have a manager who has the ambition to try and move things on, not so sure about the Board, so, as Caley D says, let's show a bit of patience and see what happens next season, or maybe the season after that without losing patience quickly. There is a real chance here to move the club on or maybe some supporters do not want that?.

I think a major difference here, in terms of the quality of signings mentioned by some posters, is that this time Terry has had a fair bit of time to identify what is required and who is available. I may be wrong but i think the decision on the majority of players freed was made some time ago, and being honest, most supporters would only disagree on maybe a couple of those freed if they were honest. It does seem that TB has the ambition, maybe lacking from previous managers, to move us from a bottom six to a top six club and that will be a gamble and hugely dependant on who is signed. I do think we need to wait before passing judgement on what has just happened as some of the posts on here have been ridiculous concerning what "might" happen next season. Everyone needs to get behind the team for the remainder of this season and the start of next. If things do start to go wrong, then we can moan but at this moment, get behind the team and manager.

Good game and performance today but totally spoilt, yet again, by poor refereeing. We keep hearing about why it is important to respect refereees but after todays performance you can see why the respect breaks down. Most people will accept that referees have a hard job ane will not get every decision correct but the majority of referees seem incapable of getting simple decisions correct and there can be no excuse for that. This is not just a moan that refs have it in for ICT, Celtic's second penalty against Aberdeen today was a horrendous decision, so bad that even Murdo McLeoad said it was not aa penalty!. Something seriously must be done to improve referees performances as they are only making it worse for themselves by their abject displays. That goes for the linemen as well with some absolute howlers from both linesmen today. On a slightly different note, was very disappointed with Heart's attitude today. Players went down very easily and conned the referee, this led to Tokely's first booking which should not have happened. As for the Hearts number 7, Souso Santana(?), he should have been bokked for blatant play acting and diving but nothing happened. Ian Black was also lucky to stay on the pitch as he continued to kick/throw the ball away after he had been booked but no action was taken. Some ref's would have sent players off for that. Not saying it is right or wrong but where is the consistency.

Some of the comments from posters on here are so over the top as to be unbelievable. The game was called off purely because the kick was at 1200, not 1500 as the pitch was playable by then. If, as the media report, the clubs were agreeable to delay kick off by and hours but needed the SPL to sanction this, but as nobody could be found to do this, I also find astonishing. I don't know if it is in the SPL rules that any alterations to kick off times must be sanctioned by the SPL but this is the most important point that someone needs to answer. As usual, nothing but silence from the SPL on that one. With regard to the slagging and blame being apportioned by some posters, it is good to know how many amateur grounsmen we have who follow this site. The volume of rain that fell in a short time was great and it did not stop raining until around 0700. Water does take time to drain away, and the mnore water you have, the longer it will take. The drains can only accomodate so much water and if too much, they will not empty. As for putting covers on the pitch, where does the water go then once it lies on the covers??. Finally, many posters have said this never happened previously. I recall a midweek game against Motherwell a few years back when the pitch was really dreadful due to the amount of surface water on it. The bulk of the rain fell that afternoon and immediately preceding the match, from what i recall it stopped before the match and was perfect after that. Don't think, from the pictures of Saturday's pitch, that it was hugely worse, although the weter did seem to drain away as that game went on. We won that game 1-0 with a Barry Wilson goal if my memory is correct.

While Celtic had the bulk of the possession, actual chances were fairly even and that's whatfootball is about creating chances. Feel that if we had got to half time 1-0 up, it may have been different. Referee was again clueless last night and very few decisions went our way from simple but blatant fouls to big ones like Why was no Celtic player at least booked for the fould for the penalty - accoring to P & J today, neither Ref nor linesman could identify who it was which is incredible. Referee only awarded penalty on say so of linesman. The fould that led to Celtic's second goal was a complete joke, and for Duff to get booked for it was also incredible given some of the fouls Celtic committed/got away with. Yes the defending was poor but if no free kick, as we had won the ball back, no gaol from that situation. We are definately not getting any breaks from referees and I honestly think the referee did potentially cost us, if not the game, than at least a draw that night. I really felt cheated by what happened and if i hear another Celtic fan moan about referees again, I will deck them!

I, for one, do not think there is a conspiracy against us but if it is not that, then the referring standard is most certainly geeting worse. Everyone accepts that refereees will make a mistake as they only see the incident once and have to make thier mind up. What is concerning is the number of basic mistakes that referees are now making which they should not be at this level. As someone has already pointed out, if they constantly make mistakes, someone should be taking them aside and showing them what they have got wrong. That just doesn't seem to happen. The other thing is consistency. Referees will give a foul for one challenge but not the next time and, of particulr relevance, give a fould for a challenge outside the penalty area but refuse to give a penalty when a similar challenge happens in the penalty area. To my mind, we have a lot of refs happy to make easy decisions, although they get that wrong as well, but not the hard ones. This will ultimately cause serious problems for football unless the SFA start to act and do something about the standard of referees. Little chance of that happening though.

Nice to see "supporters" getting behind the team for next season!

Granted, this was a pretty poor game, and while Utd played some pretty football, they offered no real goal threat until they scored. There was a definite push on Innes(?) but only Tokely seemed to appeal. Maybe the team had given up appealing to the referee by that point as they got nothing all night. Someone stated earlier that Tokely was lucky to stay on after being booked ealier. True but then again he should not have been bokked as his tackle was mistimed, nothing else. Utd players were falling over at every opportinity (Goodwillie and Conway especially) and after Gomis gets a talking to be the ref for persistent fouling, goes and commits at least another 3 with nothinh happening. Truly a dreadful referee and, had Utd not scored from open play, I feel sure they would have got a penalty. Every week we seem to get a referee who is worse than the previous week, and while it didn't cost us this game, it didn't help and we sure ain't getting any breaks from referees at the moment. Don't know how the refs treat us at away matches but might this just contribute in some small way to our home performance when we suffer from poor refereeing constantly. Anyway, as for the game, obvious to me that Munro is not a left back and he either moves back to central defence or is dropped. Tokely's distribution, along with almost everyone else last night was poor, and Conway was taking him to the cleaners on occasions althouigh he was not helped by Nick Ross not tracking back to help him. Nick Ross needs to man up a bit and start to tackle otherwise he is not offering much at the moment. I actually though Innes and Hogg came onto reasonable games and were not seriously troubled until after the first goal when we started to chase the game. Innes may be up to all sorts of tricks but at least he is street wise which a lot of our players are not. We get the things that Innes does done to us ona regular basis and if refs cannot be bothered to clamp down, then you fight fire with fire. Midfield was poor apart from Cox who had his best game for a while. Duff didn't produce much, Hayes was obvioulsy rusty from being out and his touch was generally poor but it will come back. Dorans looked like he could do something and it was unfortunate he got injured as Nick Ross offered little threat in the time he came on and cannot play central midfield. Rooney should have scored his one real chance but apart from that, service to him poor and not a lot he could do. Foran, good in parts, dreadful in others nothing more to say. The problem of playing with an unsettled back four is causing problems now as is a settled midfield. Duncan needs to come back in but I don't think, and I maybe agree, that Terry think Cox and Duncan compliment each other in midfield. For me however, Duncan every time.