CaleyD

Open letter to the fans from ICTFC chairman Kenny Cameron: The Rangers situation has resulted in a huge volume of letters, emails and phone calls to me from Caley Thistle supporters -- so many that I cannot reply individually, though all have been given due consideration and the board fully appreciates our fans' strength of feeling on the issue. Similarly, all the posts on the fans' website have been noted. This week we consulted with the Supporters Trust, whose input is particularly important to us. It is fair to say that those who say that Rangers have been punished sufficiently are in an extremely small minority of all the representations received. The directors of the club have taken all the comments on board. Our final decision on the issue will be taken based on the views of supporters and the Supporters Trust combined with what we think is best for our club from a business perspective and for Scottish football in general. This is an extremely busy period, otherwise I would have taken time to reply to all of our fans who have taken the trouble to contact me. Their views will not be arbitrarily dismissed. Meanwhile, as events continue to unfold, the board will continue to assess the situation on an ongoing basis. Thanks for your input, Kenny Cameron Site Admin Note: We have decided to post this as an announcement only and ask that people continue discussions on the existing thread at Thank You.

You can have a private viewing any time you like big boy!!!!

A more appropriate name for Twitter would have been Twatter.

Just point and laugh...better than getting worked up over it.

When sport becomes a business and sporting values clash with business values, then these are the problems that arise.

Which takes us right back to my opening post.....the SPL should be acting to separate the two issues, not pedalling news and stories which add to the confusion. The only way to do that is to stop talking about OldCo as anything other than a stain on Scottish Footballs History until everything else is sorted out. If "Rangers" fans want to buy into Greens stories, then let them....it makes no difference to anyone else what they believe or don't believe. With regards the article...aside from giving me a wee chuckle (private reasons)...it only serves to highlight my concerns that the SPL Board (not Clubs) are playing a dangerous game of trying to treat OldCo and NewCo as a one in order to leverage them into the SPL.

Gabby, we're not talking about stripping titles from an existing club so it makes no difference if it is investigated and punishment issued now or in a few months time. I find it quite baffling, and more than a little worrying, that people seem to be prioritising the punishment of a dead club ahead of dealing with the problems in hand...problems which could very well spell the end for their own clubs. Every minute wasted dreaming up ways to punish Rangers FC (in liquidation) is a minute less spent on securing the future of Scottish Football.

Don't disagree with that, but as I said, there's time for all that to be taken care of once the important stuff is sorted out.

That's not what I am saying at all. Rangers FC (in liquidation) are not whatever the NewCo is now calling themselves, they are separate legal entities and there's nothing that can be done to punish them for the crimes of the OldCo. If titles are to be stripped, they will be stripped from the OldCo, not the NewCo....the NewCo have no titles to take. Let's stop fecking around looking at ways to punish a company/club that has nothing to do with the future of the SPL and/or Scottish Football. Whether or not any NewCo should be allowed into the SPL is an entirely separate argument, IMO. It is not about denying them in order to punish Rangers or any other such thing....it is about denying them because they have done nothing to justify and/or qualify for a position in the countries top league. It is only when you muddy the waters with talk that OldCo and NewCo are one in the same that you end up chasing your tail and getting caught up in issues and arguments which should not exist and are prevent us from moving forward. If we really want to punish the OldCo, then that can be done after all the other mess is sorted out.....after all, it's not like they are going anywhere!!!

I find it absolutely incredulous that, whilst the arse is falling out of the Scottish game, the SPL Board seem intent on chasing ghosts and pandering to the media frenzy. All this talk of stripping titles from Rangers FC....who cares. What the SPL Board should be doing is sending a very clear statement that Rangers FC no longer exist and they have effectively been stripped of all titles and that came about by their own hand. The sooner their fans (and the rest of us if we're honest) realise and accept that the better. It serves no useful purpose for anyone to be referencing Rangers as some kind of ongoing concern. Ok, so the history books will read as they have always done, but they will also record that the club went into liquidation in 2012 and ceased to be. Leave the HMRC and authorities to deal with the charges placed upon those responsible for the EBT's and more recent non payment of taxes etc. There's nothing for the SPL Board to gain from flogging a corpse....forget about it, move on and use your time (our time) more constructively. Aside from all that, it is wasted effort to be spending time and resources on that, when what they need to be doing is speaking to TV and Sponsors about the future of the game and how we all work together (with or without the bastard son of Rangers FC) to deliver a better league and better product. That is how we should be selling ourselves to corporate backers right now....as an organisation that can flourish from all this mess, but only if they are willing to work with us. Let's face it, TV/Media are only in it for the money and sponsors are primarily after the exposure so they have a vested interest in a better, more popular league that has greater reach and greater appeal. It makes no sense for them to strangle the life from Scottish Football, but Scottish Football needs to demonstrate to them that we can turn things around and that means EVERYONE pulling together from the very top of the tree, all the way to the bottom and on every branch in between. Let us show people that we can, and will, learn from our mistakes, not languish in them and allow them to drag us even further into the mire.

The SPL don't have the power to "send them to Division 3". They only have the power to say yes or not to entry to the SPL and what happens if the result is a No vote is entirely out of SPL hands. The misinformation coming from some quarters really doesn't do much to help understanding of the situation.

Rangers has not (yet) been wound up. It is currently going through the liquidation process and that can take months...even years. The share is effectively only worth one pound, and it can only be transferred to someone else with the SPL's permission....so as an "asset" it is of little value to the OldCo and I can't imagine they would want to incur the additional expense of a legal battle to hold on to it. After all, they have no legal interest in the NewCo, and as such should have no interest in whether they receive the share or not. In fact, if I were a creditor of the OldCo I would be asking serious questions about why the Liquidators would even spend time (and thus the creditors money) in attending any SPL meetings. The ONLY reason the SPL (and we are talking the SPL Board, not the Member Clubs) would have for not recalling the share is to give the NewCo an extra vote, and that stinks to high heaven, IMO. So, yeah, it is all very bizarre...but for slightly different reasons than you might have first thought.

I will be checking carefully to see if any of Club 12's home matches clash with Celtics home matches. Somehow. I don't think they will. I bet they both have a home game on 11th August....one which will be rescheduled to allow for "lucrative friendlies".

I'll take Dundee away for the opening game.

Due to the sheer volume of responses then any thoughts of reading messages/emails in full to anyone is just not feasible. All e.mails received have and will be circulated to everyone on the Trust Board and the club. I have also taken a note of the points raised on this thread and they too will be documented and circulated in bullet point fashion. If people wish their points to be noted individually then they need to be sent us via e.mail to [email protected] or letter to ICT Supporters Trust, Tulloch Caledonian Stadium, Stadium Road, Inverness, IV1 1FF. The reason for this is that it's very difficult for us to credit individual comments to anonymous communications, which is what forum posts are classed as. Whilst I hold a position on this forum and on the Trust Board it is not possible for me to share any personally identifiable information (identifying each comment as being from a unique person) between the two as I would be in breach of the DPA. Not trying to be awkward or difficult (if anything it is more work for me, but that is fine), but when it comes to presenting a case then saying we have 100+ letters/e.mails carries far more weight and credibility than saying we have a thread on the forum with 100+ posts. Not an opinion/stance I agree with, but these things are what they are and I'd rather spend time discussing the points themselves than the source/validity of the points. It's vitally important that every single fan who has an opinion one way or the other takes the time to contact us properly. Not only to ensure we can present the fullest picture possible of the fans thoughts and feelings on this matter, but so that the club can make a decision whilst in possession of as much information as possible. Please do not sit back and do nothing because you think someone else will have said all you want to say....the numbers are every bit as important as the thoughts and opinions.

The NewCo do not get a vote. The SPL share still belongs to the OldCo, and it is they who would get a vote....and in that regard it would now be the Liquidators who would cast that vote. There is an argument that the SPL share should be withdrawn from the OldCo, but it's not straight forward and very much falls into the realms of "interpretation" of the SPL Articles of Association.

Nobody in the real world ever believed Rangers would go in to liquidation!!! And of course, you are making a very huge leap in faith by suggesting that Football in Scotland operates in the real world!!!

SPL only exist under license from the SFA....so yeah, they have plenty of authority in telling the SPL and SFL what to do. In saying that, as much as I think a single officiating body is needed, I'm not convinced the current situation needs any more permutations thrown into the mix and muddying the waters any further.

I don't subscribe to Sky Sports for SPL football, more for general viewing....however, as a point of principle I'd drop it from the package. I appreciate that SKY are a commercial operation, but they hold the key that can unlock the current dilemma and allow Clubs/Chairman to make decisions on the basis of sporting integrity alone. The only reason SKY would not be offering that security is because they stand to achieve most (financially) from a Rangers NewCo being allowed into the SPL.

Any chance we can keep this thread to sensible/prudent contributions only please.....struggling as it is to try and get through it to log/detail people's thoughts/views/opinions etc as it is. Feel free to start a new dedicated "let's rip the p*sh" thread for the many jokes/images doing the rounds if you so wish. Cheers Mun

Kinda depends on where you draw the "cheat" line.

If you read back you will see that I have already said that it could be any one of three....Dundee, Falkirk or Dunfermline who would all have a case. I was asked for my opinion on who I thought would have the strongest case and, having read all 100+ pages of them several times, I can tell you that there is no specific rule to cover it and it will come down to interpretation. My interpretation is that Dunfermline could have the strongest case. Unlike yourself, I've never claimed there was a rule which said Dunfermline were a shoe-in. Instead of getting all arsy over it with the childish "must try harder" BS, perhaps you might just want to point me to the rule that says that subsequent positions are filled by the 2nd placed team from Division 1. FWIW, I think it should be as you say, but the rules don't support that....if they did then we wouldn't be having a discussion on the possibilities of totally new team who have no previous league record at all being submitted to the SPL now would we!!!

Me too, but that is how it sits at present.

ICTRoughi...as I understand it, the sale of the Assets will still have to be given the thumbs up by the liquidators (BDO), which might not be as straight forward as they first thought given that Smiths consortium had made a higher bid for the assets. There's also the small matter of one of the people Green said was part of his consortium now denying that is the case and that particular person is believed to have been one of the larger financial contributors!!! The player thing is also up in the air and Greens claims that Players cannot walk-away have been undermined by an expert in Sports Law and a lecturer in law from the University of Stirling. The only thing that seems certain at the moment is that Green has a company called "The Rangers Football Club" which he intends to use as the vehicle for the new club. If either of the above end up in a legal tussle then it's game over for Rangers in terms of getting anything in place to allow them to participate in any league next season as it could take months (or longer) for it all to be sorted out.

It's actually the liquidators who will have the vote as they (will) control the company. Rangers (the OldCo) still own the share and that share entitles them to vote. As I understand it though, there's a whole lot that needs to happen before a vote can be taken and it's feasible that by then the SPL will have found a legally sound way in which to take back that share. Before a vote can take place..... A NewCo needs to be formed. It needs to have joined the SFA. It needs a compliant stadium. It needs a team. Directors need to be declared "fit and proper persons to run a club". And before any of the above can happen.....they need money!!!! It's one thing to offer up a few million to buy the assets, quite another to get the money together to put everything else in place...and to put it all in place in a VERY short timescale.