Renegade

bulls*** !!! Relegation was the result of a season-long malaise not one game. If we had had a different outcome in ANY of the 28 games we did NOT win (5 draws, 5 losses for Butcher, 2 draws, 15 losses for CB, + 1 loss for the Doc/Garden as caretakers) we would have stayed up. If we had scored a single goal more against St Mirren we would have stayed up. If St Mirren had conceded 2 more goals against ANY team(s) over the course of the entire season, we would have stayed up. I never once said he was the ultimate cause, Brew and the Board were the biggest culprits, but Butcher IMO had a small part to play. I will concede that the manager did make a couple of bizarre selections and ultimately yes they backfired on him, but he did not go out to lose those games Oh come on, no ones saying that. Now your trying to put me a conspiracy theorist bracket and saying he wanted ICT relegated, come on. and come the end of the season a league record of W5,D5,L5,F15,A15.Pts=20 was far superior to his predecessor who had W5,D2,L15,F20,A38.Pts=17. Absolutely. Your logic is as flawed as those who blame Ross Tokely for our SPL status because he got sent off. I personally do not blame Tokely for ICT being relegated. I blame Butcher for putting him there for that game. Now whilst it is true that Tokely had put in some admiral performances a number of games before in that position (and even in the final game before he was sent off), Pavels Mihadjuks should most definitely not have been played out of position, even more so when Tokely (a natural right back) was in the starting line-up. Had David Proctor been played at right back then keeping Tokely there would have been understandable, but that was not the game to start messing around and puting people in places they had never been. And then of course there's the Esson incident. Every man and his dog could see he was the better keeper, but after their little incident on the training ground, Butcher's ego came first and Fraser (who, once he was put in, ICT began leaking goals again) was given the run of games. That was nonsense and these are the things Butcher has to take the blame for.

The difference is though is Butcher (at the time commendably) had ICT essentially safe. His bizarre antics with a couple of games to go blew it.

Doubt it. I read somewhere recently (I think it was P&B so might not be true then) there's going to be another home kit from the Euro Qualifiers. Edit - http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...p/page__st__150 See post #164 by "Burma". He got the stuff about this kit right, so he may well be correct on the second one as well.

I think my site obituary should read - Renegade 1st September 2008 - 1st May 2010 Was it really that bad?

Nah, don't like it but apparently there's another new home kit coming out later this year.

I'm not so sure about that, from what I gather, quite a few of the players don't like him.

He lost his job at Brentford because he was terrible. Made a complete tube of himself whilst having a "Brewster at Dundee United-esque" record, making himself rather unpopular with the fans and backroom staff, whilst apparently being rather frustrated by the fact that his players couldn't play at the same level he could. Sydney is another thing altogether. The way he came in with with his attitude of "I'm from England so I know best" attitude is a suicidal thing to do in Australia. And it wasn't just that. There's also a well known TV pundit over there named Craig Foster, who captained Australia many times in the 90s whilst also playing for Portsmouth and Crystal Palace. He let his feelings known on Butcher's managerial skills but Butcher felt he didn't deserve an opinion as Foster had never played in a World Cup. This was also topped off by Butcher, using his column in the Sydney Morning Herald, to write an open letter to Foster, that wasn't just nasty, but also rather childish. Along with his boring football style (a complete contrast to what the fans were used to after the rather successful managerial reign and exciting football of his predecessor Pierre Littbarski), and his fall out with the Sydney share holder and well known Australian actor Anthony laPaglia, Butcher was justifiably punted out of Sydney FC. Losing the Sydney job was his own fault and I think the same will eventually happen here. On the plus side, maybe in time Australian football supporters will thank Butcher. He single handedly killed the long ball game there forever.

Oh well, unlucky John. See you the season after next!

I know that, but had he'd been played more then ICT might have stayed up but we'll never know now.

Motherwell ... which I believe is the only other time that he and MM have teamed up and as discussed on here previously, together they seem to make a good partnership but apart, they are both a little lost ! He was there for 4 seasons and although his first full season in charge was not spectacular with a winning % of only 25%, it was perhaps not surprising given that he was rebuilding a side that had to pay off a huge number of its squad due to financial woes. His winning record in 03/04, 04/05, and 05/06 were all above the generally accepted "average" of 33.33% and he finished in the top six of the SPL in each of those seasons and also took Well to the League Cup Final. If he was in charge of ICT and achieved 3 top six finishes and a cup final place (other than Challenge Cup) we would be hailing him as our best ever manager ! His record at ICT also makes pretty good reading so far despite all the mumping and moaning ! Overall: P=50 W=23 D=13 L=14 GoalsFor=74 GoalsAgainst=54 !!! Winning % = 46% 09/10: P=33 W=17 D=8 L=8 GoalsFor=57 GoalsAgainst=38 !!! Winning % = 51.52% Fair point, but remember it still wasn't exactly spectacular and he should have been relegated in his first season (he was saved by Brockville). I also seem to recollect hearing that when Butcher was head hunted by Sydney, some fans were glad he had moved on, not necessarily because he was particularly bad, but they felt it was time for some new ideas. So we should not continue with a manager who has been quite succesful so far just in case his current assistant doesnt walk away with him (as happens in most cases) when he decides to go ? What absolute crap ! That's the risk you take when you have an assistant who has been a manager in his own right, and in Butcher and Malpas's case it has happened before. Would you like see Malpas as ICT boss? Dont forget, TB took this job on condition he could have MM as his assistant and if he were to go it is more likely than not that MM would go with him as both are probably well aware that they function best as a managerial team rather than individually. Let's hope so.

Though he was actually born in Singapore.

Even though the contracts have all been announced I was going to post this anyway. My view would be "Approach with Caution." Butcher's teams all have one thing in common, he makes a pigs ear of things whilst making a pig of himself. This is a manager who gets manager's jobs only because he's a big footballing name and if he was any good good he most certainly would not be at a club of this size in the Scottish Division One. He's never had what could be called a "successful" managerial reign at any club, though he has had more than one disaster. And is it any surprise? This is a manager who thinks that Lionel and Golabek are better than Hastings, and most unbelievably of all, that Daniel Stratford is better than Iain Vigurs! Seriously unbelievable stuff. But it's not really Butcher himself that scares me, it's his right hand man. For another season (whether ICT are promoted or not), this man is essentially either a hard beat away from the manager's job, or the highly likely replacement for Butcher when he eventually decides to go. The thought of Malpas being the manager of this club fills me with fear, cause if you thought Brew was bad, then you've seen nothing yet.

:P I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's all going to end in tears.

I think you can tell by quite a few posts on this thread that a few bright sparks are hiding behind the "it's only banter" argument, but they but hide the fact that they're suffering from the seething hatred for those who come from over the other side of an imaginary line (or is it just jealously...).

But things run their courses. And it's not just that, the way this formation works is that at times Rooney's lost up front on his own and Foran isn't nearly as effective out on the wing. Go for the straight 4-4-2 and see how it goes.

Sorry but who are you?

:angry: Oh how lovely.... But seriously Steve Paterson would've signed Barrowman. Maybe he also would've been his "bumboy"...

I think I read somewhere that he was on Real Betis's books at one time.

And you know this how? He was always played the wrong way, and had he been played differently things may have been different.

Again I think the 4-2-3-1 has run it's course and ICT should back to 4-4-2 for the final push in the season - Esson Tokely Bulvitis Munro Golabek Odhiambo Cox Duncan Hayes Rooney Foran Subs - Allison, Sanchez, Proctor, McBain, Djebi-Zadi

It isn't that amazing, I've gone with a straight 4-4-2 for the last couple of weeks now and will do it again for the next one.

True, but there's seems to a few players in the current squad that are seen as untouchable. Rooney's one, Tokely's another, along with Butcher.

Aye, he did well scoring under that pressure today, but in truth the game should of been wrapped for ICT a long time before that.

In some respects I'm disappointed to see him go. You have to look at the facts here. At County in Division 2, he was played often with two other strikers alongside him and given the support he needed. He was also played as a poacher in a Kris Boyd, Filippo Inzagi kind of role. Over the course of a couple of months, Brew had him playing in a league that was two higher than he had been in, up front on his own, as a target man with long balls being punted at him at every given opportunity. The reason he "failed" here was because he was played the wrong way, with too much expectation put on his shoulders.