absent friend

"And finally...."not complaining in public about the mud that is thrown" did you miss the public outburst aimed at the Chairman of the Supporters Trust back at the turn of the year?" I read the above statement on here so often but I am surprised that someone who is continually referred to as a MUPPET had only one outburst, public or otherwise! I rather doubt if I could be so in command of my emotions over such a prolonged attack, right up to this day. I feel we, the fans, can only give it if we are willing to take in return. Can I take it then Don, reading your above reply in full, that you along with IHE are keen on some sort of fans confrontation with the current Board?

OK Alex, i'll correct you,Callum Mellvile is not in the building trade but is involved in your world ,him and his brother own Cosalt marine supplies to the oil and gas industries.He is currently negotiating with John Bennet a united director (who came over the road to be on the Dens board for a short period and assisted financially to help us out of the mire) to purchase back Dens. Thanks. I did read that he was a Dons fan and a friend of Milne. I also read something about the Tannadice link with Dens but couldn't understand that one. Callum Melville is on record stating that it is the personal abuse Stewart Milne receives from the Dons fans and he felt that, being a local lad, he also would be subjected to and that made him invest in Dundee instead of his home club. Food for though there maybe for ICT!! Please invest with us and be labelled a MUPPET. John is/was the leading light at J & E Shepherds, the national surveyors, with their head office in Dundee and was, as you say, a knight in shining armour when Dundee were financially up against it.

Well, Sir, if this was already in the public domain, I for one did not know this nor did the above posters! If this knowledge had been shared, by you, earlier, a lot of negative posting could have been avoided as the lack of info from within was fueling comment. Now there is substance, posters will get their heads round it! No doubt Monday could also offer further info.

At least by November, trial time, his involvement with ICT will be a memory and, let's hope, the headlines will have him at Ross County instead.

Just to establish my reason for the reply and taking your above post as a template: 'I think its owed' are your words hence my emphisis on the I. The 2 goals, in my opinion have a lot to do with it as this margin sent us out of the SPL and created much of the neggies being posted. Like Scotty, I would also suggest there are three camps and most are in the middle one but I have sympathy for some who wander into the first camp on reading the neggie posts on here. I would also agree totally that it is your perrogative to be frustrated with the current situation, (join the clan) and I can only hope, after this week-end, we can begin to see a way forward. I think the activity in Dingwall and Dundee has also created a feel that we, if anything, are going backwards but they are looking towards the new season and this is difficult to accept at this time. .

Lets see Bannerman, Sorted and Absent Friend defend Grassa and indeed the rest of the board over this one... Speaking for myself, I don't need to defend anyone except me! The fact that I see areas of grey within the management of ICT when others on here see black and white does not make me pro or anti Board. The fact that I may be slow to comment on points that are not clear to me and express my disappointment that others do and they often do in a personal way, does not make me pro or anti Board - it just allows an insight into my feelings. However, I thought the remark in today's P & J that 'we are in a position to offer something concrete whereas other clubs are asking the players to wait a week or so to see what they can offer' was enlightening and perhaps shows we are in a better financial situation than many other clubs, at this time. This financial situation may persuade some players to resign with us and indeed make others consider us for financial peace of mind instead of just income. On the subject of income, I would like to see a 'win bonus' loaded income so that success provides income throughout the club and not just the players and this formula would also percolate right up to the Board Room. .

Morais is out of contract and has already said he will not be staying (or words very close to that). The only offers for Morais will be to the player himself as he is out-of-contract, a free agent, unemployed, got feck all to do with ICT .... get the idea ? Is it possible, Renegade, that he was taking advantage of some free advertising to alert the market that we have a good player for sale. I realise that this is the job for the agent and no doubt he will have done his ground work but if this free publicity gets another club interested and we therefore end up with ?1000 or two more for the club, maybe it was worth a shout. As the player himself (Morais) has said he will be away, where is the problem in Grassa repeating it ... it is called realism and far superior than trying to spin things in the faint hope he will stay. As for "player for sale" or "?1000 or two more" ... not sure where so many are getting the idea from that we will make anything .... to re-iterate .... the player is out-of-contract, a free agent, unemployed, worth nothing in terms of a transfer fee ..... get the idea ? Had a bad day and posted a load of crap!! I will accept my 100 lines...Think before you post - Think before you post... Sorry!!

Obviously there is about a 99.99% chance that he will go, but I reckon it's also quite likely Brian Kerr will go and I wouldn't be surprised to Foran away too, I just find it a little strange to come out and name someone explictly, no matter how obvious it may be. Is it possible, Renegade, that he was taking advantage of some free advertising to alert the market that we have a good player for sale. I realise that this is the job for the agent and no doubt he will have done his ground work but if this free publicity gets another club interested and we therefore end up with ?1000 or two more for the club, maybe it was worth a shout. Georgeios, how you can state that if Foran is off so is Terry, beats me. Foran has a limited shelf life, he was showcased to the SPL, by TB and must now take advantage of this financially if he has any sense. Terry, on the other hand, requires this year with us, in my opinion, to show his ability. I think this round of managers musical chairs is just too early for him - if he had kept us up however I think he would be in demand. Maybe his short time with us is sufficient for a club to take a punt on him but I doubt it. .

Think for yourselves pals, this poster is not even in the purchase stakes and he is offering advice to the ones that are buying. Not only that but he is offering advice on the type of football we are going to be playing before our signings are completed and our playing strategy is in place. Be aware!!

Spot on!!

I will accept it as a compliment that I am seen as a friend of the establishment! The establishment that is ICT covers all parties that make up this super club and whilst I accept that they do not all pull in the same direction all the time, the common aim is the betterment of this club. If you were kind enough to read my offerings on here you will note that I do not 'sit' on my hands however I also have the courage to differ where I see fit so maybe that makes me a friend of the establishment. Being downright rude, especially when not in knowledge of the facts, and posting personal attacks is not, in my book, very clever so maybe that makes me a friend of the establishment.. I find IHE's contribution to this forum extremely amusing and not, on occasions, without substance however some of his utterances I would not applaud so maybe that makes me a friend of the establishment. .

Rig, this is a lower figure than all the reports I have seen maintain. The figures I saw showed the income from Setanta as being 66% of our income and equal to our wage bill. There is also the 'little' problem with advertising - no TV - no adverts - no income, which will also compound the problem. I would like to think that we are immune from it all this year but that is not possible, any loss of revenue must be felt throughout the Scottish game and we must all be worse off. The SPL however could be in big trouble with reconstruction a possibility, if no new company takes over the agreements from Setanta and clubs go to the wall.

Setanta's financial input into the SPL is 66% of the total turn-over and almost exactly equals tha yearly wage bill of the players. I would submit that this is going to have an enormous impact on clubs/player pool/contracts as of this moment. Perhaps a knight in shining armour will ride in but if you were the financial director of any club you will now be wondering just how legal that contract with the wet ink is! Rough times ahead, I think.

Sorry Don, I should have started by agreeing with your posts content - with the exception of.....the above! So no, it is not selective editing!

Sorry but I can't agree! This is due to the average fans lack of knowledge of the running of a business/ club composition/ financial restrictions/ target horizons/ internal politics/ etc...that's before we get to the area that we are all best at ....armchair management of the team. It would be impossible for fans to know what's best for the club. Take our financial situation now, are we going to suffer from Setanta/parachute payment/Niculae case? Have we a united management/Board agreement re current/new players? Are we able to attempt a return to SPL in the short term? How many fans can answer that? Even a club owned by the fans have a management committee(Board) to run it and the very idea that each and every fan, of that club, can therefore impact on the management of that club is unrealistic, in my opinion! .

Don't think throwing in the towel is the answer BUT it could perhaps explain why the Banter from the Board is less than it was. Do you think the forum 'craic' was as personal and critical as it now is ,Scotty, in the past, when we enjoyed a better feeling of togetherness? I just get disappointed that posters feel they are a non-return valve, they can be offensive but do not expect the offended to react. We are all human, with emotions and that goes for the Board members too. .

Scotty, when this medium was used to get Brew out, I stated that things on here can never be the same again. We are experiencing it now with the 'Our Tel' thread - "I'll give him xx games and then....." - and then what? The forum will be full of the same small amount of people, saying the same thing, in a different manner, to up the pressure on the manager and players and Board. A few activists can create the illusion of mega discontent. Can you therefore blame our Board (Muppets, to some) for being less than forthcoming on here considering the depth and amount of criticism, much of it being very personal, that they have been subjected to? Lets treat them with contempt and then ask them to speak to us in a civil manner. Aye, Right!! A lot of the postings have driven a wedge between the Board and the fans and we, the vast majority of ICT followers, are now suffering for it. .

Alex, I got excited there for a moment, I thought Bronson had come into mega cash!! I would suggest Sky will take Setanta and their contracts over, along with their debts and pay very little. Sky are very rich at the moment and are able to make such a move but will no doubt wait until the last moment so that the price will be rock bottom. The new football season being in a turmoil may however be the catalyst for an early purchase by Sky and this could help Setanta get a better price. It is not in their, the producers of the goods for sale , the sport on TV, to have a loss of interest by their clients/potential clients as this would lead to less viewing, less advertising, less income for them - lose, lose all round. The only problem for Sky is that most Setanta clients are also clients of Sky so they will not get 1.2 million new, new clients whereas Mr Branson would. .

And I guess with the lack of Setanta funds there will be a lot of them knocking about as clubs try to minimise their outgoings.

Just to make a point regarding Vigurs - if you trawl through the other 12 pages of this thread, you will notice Vigurs waygoing, highlighted by various posters that this shows:- the management team's inability to recognise talent the Boards inability to recruit the right management team for us the reason we were relegated the reason we will never be financially sound etc, etc He nows signs for ROSS COUNTY!!! (Maybe it also shows posters inability to judge players ability/character/management/Board/etc) It would appear to me therefore that other managers saw the same in him as Butcher did, at this time. His playing in the 2nd division next year may offer a springboard for his move up the ranks again but ICT cannot wait for players on our books to blossom, if they ever do, at their own pace and offloading him to a small team for resigning in the future, if good enough, makes sense. .

Last seen on a flight to Benidorm, away for a wee holiday or to de-stress, as they now call it. It, no doubt, will return with the traditional donkey, straw hat, BIG hangover and green acres.

A frog has a vertical line through both it's pupils while a toad doesn't I think. Well, the frogs appear to have solved the class size problem!