Charles Bannerman

This has been public knowledge for over five years. Maybe not widely known but public knowledge all the same.

I think the "end of March" rule was blown out of the water with a lot else by Caley Thistle in 2004-05 when they firstly groundshared at Aberdeen and secondly then moved back to Inverness in the January. Yes, County DO have, and indeed have had for a little over five years, a plan to extend to 6000 seats. In fact planning permission has been in the process of renewal since it expires after five years. I think the view was that they might as well have this in place even if it was never used. The extension work could be done in something like 12 weeks. What is NOT clear is how this would be financed but Ross County are very well organised in terms of potential stadium expansion. How big a problem the railway bridge would be is also not clear but they have dealt with capacity crowds v Rangers, ICT etc on a number of occasions.

It seems there were as whole lot of these guys who came through the Aberdeen juvenile set up roughly at the same time.

Yes it is very good and although there's not a lot in it that would be news to a Highland or an ICT readership, this is a good deal further flung so I think it's very useful PR both for Ross and for Caley Thistle.

The ultimate oxymoron - Gourmet Burgers!!! :D

Given that the game is definitely ON, is there perhaps a case for closing this thread which may now have become misleading since the original question no longer applies? Presumably the matchday thread is on its way in any case? PS - I informed Tommy this morning that he had been referred to on this forum as "the best groundsman in Britain." Those of you who know him will probably understand what I mean by describing his response as one of "indignant hilarity" - an emotion which, within my experience anyway, only Tommy can do! (Probably the closest I have otherwise seen was Diggar MacGillivray!)

Very sensible observation. My understanding is that an inspection would be very unlikely and that Ayr United are currently tucked up in bed in the Thistle Hotel. Hopefully Miss ICT's "mate" is of a similar view. Otherwise we are yet again in danger of unnecessary and extremely unhelpful confusion. So let's look forward to the recently unusual luxury of a home game in Inverness!

I could PM you with my detailed calculation or send you the envelope on the back of which I worked it out. :D

Wow!! That's an intriguing thought. These will have to be amazing heat exchangers! It's the concept of taking the heat from the AIR that intrigues me... or at least that's what I'm assuming is the case from the quoted passage. A wee bit of maths and science now - if that turns you off, just ignore the next bit! :D It's amazing what you can work out from the ballpark figure of the ?70 per hour that it's meant to cost to run the TCS system. That equates to around 200 litres of oil per hour which in turn, after a few more sums, equates to a power rating of approximately 2100kW. (All calculations very much back of envelope and fairly approximate! For the benefit of the scientifically inclined I am taking the heat of combustion of hydrocarbons as 47kJ/g) That, therefore, is the rate at which energy is required to run the system. Now to take energy at that rate from the air in order to transfer it to the USH and hence to the pitch, I calculate you would need to do the equivalent of passing the equivalent of 160 cubic metres of air through the heat exchanger, and cool it by 10 degrees centigrade - EVERY SECOND. (I had to look up the specific heat and the density of of air to work that out.) 160 cubic metres is the equivalent of four 4m x 4m livingrooms so that volume would have to be cooled by 10 degrees every SECOND! Also, remembering that the air is typically at -5, it would need to be cooled to -15 in this scenario. The TCS system, by the way, has a carbon footprint of about half a ton of CO2 per hour, but hey... they partly sold us the greehouse gas theory by ramming down our throats how bloody hot the summer of 2003 was. Well to follow that logic through, look how bloody cold the winter of 09-10 has been! :D To turn to the discussion on the general features of a USH system, I suppose the "efficiency" of the system could be measured in terms of the rate at which energy can be passed on to each unit volume of undersoil. Presumably the units would therefore be something like "kilowatts per cubic metre". The higher the value, the faster you can thaw a pitch out. But on the other hand if you are merely keeping an already soft pitch in that condition, you can presumably turn the thing down to a level which achieves thermal equilibrium - ie the rate at which heat is being lost to the "cold" air above equals the rate at which it is being supplied by the USH system. This is a very complex scenario. The variables (assuming that there is no limit to the power you can generate from your plant) would appear to be total pipe length, spacing between adjacent lengths of pipe (which is related to pipe length), thickness of pipe (given that a thin pipe with a larger relative surface area will transfer heat faster) and rate of flow of water through the pipes. At a qualitative level it would seem fairly clear that the closer the pipes are together, the more effective (and more energy consuming) the system will be. Then there are other factors such as the idea that the more piping you have, the less soil you have left that needs thawing in any case and also the rate of heat loss, principally by radiation and conduction. However there is also the notion that the higher the power per unit volume, the more chance there is of damage to the grass roots. Interesting topic!

I can update you on the situation as I saw for myself it at 2pm today at the Stadium. As far as I am aware the undesoil heating is ON. There was NO snow on the pitch and very little surrounding the stadium. However there were significant areas of the pitch with water lying on them. The feeling is that this will drain away quickly if the USH does its job and defrosts the surface. It is also worth noting that underlying temperatures are about 5-8 degrees warmer (OK... less cold) than they were last weekend. Tommy is once again putting a power of work into that pitch and getting it playable. I am not aware of any plan having been made about when to say yes or no but Thursday would be extremely early for a decision about a decision. Tomorrow should bring more clarity. HOWEVER if the A9 remains in its recent chaotic state, that could emerge as the biggest threat to the game. I would have to say I endorse Doofersdad's criticism of the 5 day forecast which I believe the BBC simply get from the Met Office. It is disastrously inaccurate. Over New Year I did an analysis of what they were saying about various days during the 5 preceding days. The variation through these 5 days in what they were predicting for, say, January 4th, was incredible and often way different from what ultimately transpired. For instance it is quite capable of ranging from predicting heavy snow to bright sunshine and what you get on the day is thick cloud. Similarly temperature predictions of -6 to +4 typically end up at zero. You really have to wonder if it is worth making forecasts like that public if that is the current capability of meteorological science and they so signally fail to predict what the weather is actually going to be like. I know that Tommy gets extremely annoyed about the unreliability of these forecasts in a situation where he needs accuracy.

No it doesn't. I was at the Caledonian Stadium for much of Saturday morning, directly observing events and speaking directly to the people involved which I continued to do over the weekend. Unfortunately the Courier would, unusually, appear to be in error on this occasion. Please, Don, do not be tempted to descend to the levels of Houndog and his apparent need to distort the facts in order to support his conspiracy theory and desire to find fault with the club.

How simple do I have to make this and apparently several other aspects of this issue for you? There was NO 9:30 inspection on Saturday!

I believe they were sold when the USH was installed. They are only effective down to about -3. As I recollect County have had their own for a number of years - perhaps 10 or more? I can recall a number of occasions over the period when County have done their best with them but they quite simply can't cope with some nights. I also remember about 10 years ago County experimented with bubbles of hot air - but only once! The ultimate solution - and I believe it has been tried although I can't remember whether it was as part of County's titanic battle to get their 1966 game v Rangers on or during Jags' 29 postponements in 1979 - is lighting fires on the park! Anyone prepared to phone Tommy and make that suggestion for this weekend?! While the referee was doing his inspection on Saturday soembody did make the point that in the event of summer football, pitches could become just as hard.

Sorry to deprive you of another conspiracy theory opportunity Donald but if what I wrote at around 2:30 on Saturday hadn't already made these questions irrelevant then I can only refer you to Scotty's impeccably accurate account a few posts above this one. The only detail of that which I cannot personally verify is what was said by Chic or by anyone else on Sportsound that afternoon since at the time, having spent much of the morning at the "scene of the crime" (maybe I should withdraw that since it will only encourage Donald :025: ) I was shopping and lunching in Morrisons. I have on the other hand heard reliable accounts of what was said and much of it does not appear to correlate with what I saw at the scene. At this point I don't think I want to say too much more about what has become a live and running issue.

The version of events which I posted on this thread around 2:30 yesterday afternoon presents the facts which I gleaned from a number of calls to the club on Thursday and Friday and from spending much of Saturday morning at the ground as the inspection took place. A summary of that will be broadcast on the BBC's local bulletins for the Highlands and Islands tomorrow morning. I also note above with interest "strathyjags'" allegation about material he is under the delusion that I posted on something he refers to as "p and b". I understand this to be a football website but I am afraid that apart from that I have no knowledge of it at all. In any case, what would be the point of a humble peasant like myself commenting on the finances of Strathspey Thistle FC in contradiction of a figure so eminent that not only is he Club Treasurer but apparently also Club Lord High Everything Else, with a status so elevated that his name even takes precedence over that of the Club Chairman on the Club Website......... of which he is Grand Club Webmaster!? :D :015: :015:

POST OF THE THREAD!!!! :( :( :) :021: :021: But come to think of it Alex... would you not have been safer also to have provided links to online dictionary definitions of "satire" and "irony"... just in case!!!!?

As a said in my recent post... "misinformation, confusion and downright fantasy". You should take that one up with your colleagues on Radio Scotland, from whom I was quoting, Charles... If I had been listening rather than doing my somewhat delayed shopping in Morrisons, I would have phoned in and put the record straight. (I just hope to God Miss ICT wasn't listening to that programme! :( )

As a said in my recent post... "misinformation, confusion and downright fantasy". Re Yngwie's quote of Billy Dodds.... I obviously cannot testify as to what Maurice said but can state that there was a high degree of confidence within ICT yesterday that the game would go ahead. And there was ONE INSPECTION AT 1115!

Due to the incredible amount of misinformation, confusion and, in places downright fantasy on this thread and having been across this situation since Thursday afternoon, I think I should place the following facts on record. The Inspection This was fixed late yesterday (Friday) morning for 0930 today, match day. There would appear to have been some kind of breakdown in communication within the SFA who appear to have arranged for a local referee to visit at 1100. Before anyone goes off on one about this, please remember that this delay might potentially have put the game on and appeared to be welcomed at the Caledonian Stadium this morning since conditions were steadily improving. The referee eventually arrived at 1115 and took a very long and detailed look at the pitch - in fact it was the longest inspection I have ever witnessed. (So I really do not know where Miss ICT got her totally fictional hearsay from.) On the basis of there being significant areas still solid at that time, he called the game off at 1135. This was very quickly relayed to the various websites and broadcasters. This decision gave no scope for a later inspection by the match referee who was due in at around 1230 by which time improving conditions MAY have (EDIT - I am now informed "HAD") rendered the pitch playable. I got the strong impression that throughout ICT there was a strong desire for that later inspection or any other means of getting the game on but the decision lies with the referee who also has to take into account travelling fans. It would not be proper of me to repeat any opinions I may have heard about how keen or otherwise QoS were for the game to go ahead. The Undersoil Heating SFL clubs are not obliged to use their heating so its discretionary use hence involves a financial balancing of the costs (which are approximately ?70-?90 per hour depending on the oil price) against the revenues from a Saturday as opposed to a postponed midweek game - also taking into account what the weather may or may not do. This is hence a very complex call. The decision to switch on the undersoil heating was made late yesterday (Friday) morning and full power was used (so Tommy was really working extremely hard on that treadmill all night - seriously though, Tommy put a huge amount of effort into trying to get that game on). I was told that at 4:30 yesterday afternoon the pitch was very much looking as if it was heading towards playable. However last night was extraordinarily cold and the stadium's waterside location did not appear to benefit fom its usual couple of degrees of warming. When I arrived there at 0945 today the temperature was still minus 2 although by then increasing. As a result the heating did not after all appear to have been able to take the frost out of the ground within the required time, even for an inspection delayed until 1130. As I left there was a feeling that a 1230 or 1300 inspection might have yielded a different result and as I write this I have just received a text expressing the opinion that the pitch was playable at 1pm. Apart from all that, it was quite an interesting morning. When I arrived I met Gordon Chisholm coming out of the front door and he asked me if I was the inspecting referee?.... which is quite flattering since referees retire at around the age of 48! :) Then, whilst on the phone, I was "attacked" (well not quite!) by Terry Butcher's dog - which seems to be the only creature within his personal orbit over which he is totally incapable of exerting any influence at all! :( :( Terry thought it was quite funny!

I was talking to Darren (commercial manager ??) at the hospitality for the Plastic Whistle match and he says they never switch it on just now as they can't afford to run it - it costs something like 5 or 6 grand a day to run ?? Not sure if the figures are right - but I doubt the lost revenue for having to play a few games mid week would be more than the cost of running the USH ?!?!? FYI - 1) The undersoil heating costs something between ?1500 and ?2000 a day to run, depending on the current oil cost. 2) In the SFL it is not obligatory to use it if you have it. It's up to the clubs. 3) It was switched on late this morning and it is currently expected that tomorrow's game will go ahead.

Alex... maybe if we could just concentrate on the football..... Perhaps the "missing man" is still away fighting for Oliver Cromwell. :huh: Seriously, though, as a great enthusiast of the Inverness football heritage I am delighted to see the revival of the name and wish these lads well.

Maybe the Aberdeen fans, or at least a section of them, should take a good look at themselves and ask what contribution they themselves have made to the club's current status in what has been almost 30 years now since the "Gothenburg myth" was born. For a geographically peripheral club with limited resources and no major benefactors, I find the expectations of a lot of Aberdeen fans quite staggering. For many it never seems to have been grasped that Aberdeen FC was lucky enough to benefit from a once in lifetime spell of success for about half a decade, a major factor in which was their sheer good fortune in attracting one of the world's major management figures just before he was ready to step into that very top international tier. I would not, however, want to detract in any way from the great success that Aberdeen enjoyed around the early 80s and especially the marvellous achievement of winning the Cupwinners' Cup. However these days are now in the distant past. After that euphoric bubble had run its course, Aberdeen had the opportunity to settle back into a more realistic level within the game. However achieving that has been made considerably more complicated by manager after manager being harassed and hounded out by the expectations of fans who seem to have great difficulty in understanding what the club's true level really is. Mark McGhee is merely receiving the same treatment as the likes of Alex Smith and Jimmy Calderwood whereas in reality "Gothenburg" was the gross exception rather than the rule. That myth, however, is perpetuated to this day, for example by the use of the "G word" whenever possible by a certain Aberdeen newspaper - most recently yesterday when it was reported that "Gothenburg Great Jim Leighton"....... had become a goalkeeping coach at Huntly!!!! It rather looks to me as if rather too many North East Men still view the world through a delusional pair of red tinted spectacles. I am sure that there are other factors as well, but it cannot be a comfortable matter to be manager or even a player at Aberdeen, given the unrealistic expectations of a significant slice of their support. Hence so many banana skins such as flirtations with relegation and cup disasters. That said, the frequency with which they have been booted out of cups by lower league teams is quite staggering - and that over a period of jurisdiction by at least two if not three different managers which really does perhaps add just a little bit of mystery to the above thoughts. So what about the contents of the "Aberdeen Book Of Scottish Cup Triumphs" (which sits on my shelf between books of Free Gifts and War Heroes, the ethnic origins of which might best not be stated in the current PC age)? This particular Aberdonian "Shortest Book in the World" possibly has but a single chapter (post round about Alex Smith), recording how they lifted their game beyond all recognition and exceeded all expectations to eliminate - at the death, in a replay and with a wonder save from Huntly's future goalkeeping coach.... the Victors of Celtic Park!

Who on EARTH was on duty in the Procurator Fiscal's Office the day they decided to proceed on that evidence!? I'll say from the outset that I have no time for bigotry and find Protestant bigotry especially offensive (even though I was "brung up a Proddy"). There was a lot of it around when Rangers came to visit... and this seems to be the best the Police and the PF can come up with! Strangely enough I don't actually find The Famine Song all that offensive on the grander scale of what these people are capable of. Certainly there's a massive inconsistency here in that The Famine Song seems to be illegal but on the other hand the organised, systematic and institutionalised bigotry that you get from the Grand Glorious Worshipful Intergalactic Orange Lodge still fails to make that a proscribed organisation. The same could be said of the bunch of clowns who dress up in their funny gear and hold their annual trek down to the Portland Club (which itself should also perhaps also become a proscribed organisation.)

You mean you're from "up ee rodd"? True but how do you ken wicker accent? I think most people know "up ee rodd" which tends to be your non Wicker's token item of "Weekspeak" but, although Invernessian born and bred and by inclination, two of my grandparents came from around Canisbay and one from Wick. I could therefore easily sustain a conversation in broad "Week" but would cringe at the prospect. The other grandparent, my paternal grandmother, was a Fraser from Shore Street in Inverness and would have remembered the crowds going to watch Citadel.

You mean you're from "up ee rodd"?