Charles Bannerman

You mean even further up ee rodd than Week? :009: :( :D

In that case there must be a phenomenal number of "reporters" on this forum! I never thought I would see the day when someone would be criticised for being too negative on "caleythistleonline" no less. :P Before squashing the myth of negativity about last night's post, perhaps I should first observe that I think I get the picture. It seems it's perfectly OK to be as negative as you like about the Board, the Chairman, the Former Chief Executive, the Stewards, the Pie Shop, the Players, the Manager, the Club Shop, the Stadium Announcer etc etc etc.... But NEVER even APPEAR to say anything negative about the FANS! Now, as for that alleged negativity... my original post.... I'm actually asking the question in the opposite direction - but no more than asking the question. Is there not room for a bit of disappointment that the Caley Thistle contingent was only what I would estimate to be 2000 or maybe just over? This bit asks a question about a statistical fact. This would seem actually to be LESS than this season's normal home support of around 2500-2700 although, unlike at home games, they made a lot more noise. This bit links that statistical fact to another one, moves on to echo an observation about noise at home games frequently made on here and ends with a positive statement. In the pre SPL days when home support was typically of the order of 1800, rather less than for this season so far, I seem to recollect travelling supports for major Scottish cup ties and previous Challenge Finals being rather more that what turned up at a relatively easily accessible venue on Sunday. This bit states a number of statistical facts. Is the difference maybe that many of the "glory hunters" (whom I would define as people who turn up in the ICT end at major games but who attend the Caledonian Stadium at best infrequently) no longer bother? Or is it the case that, post SPL, the Challenge Cup - even the final, is regarded by many as a bit old hat? This bit makes the only real judgement in the post - about a section of the ICT "support" which over the years has been frequently criticised on here. It concludes by asking a question about how the fans of a team which spent quite a long time in the SPL now perceive this SFL knockout competition. So just let me summarise my original point. The number of fans in the ICT stand on Sunday appears to have been smaller than at recent home league games and less than under similar circumstances some years back, when there was a smaller home support

I'm actually asking the question in the opposite direction - but no more than asking the question. Is there not room for a bit of disappointment that the Caley Thistle contingent was only what I would estimate to be 2000 or maybe just over? This would seem actually to be LESS than this season's normal home support of around 2500-2700 although, unlike at home games, they made a lot more noise. In the pre SPL days when home support was typically of the order of 1800, rather less than for this season so far, I seem to recollect travelling supports for major Scottish cup ties and previous Challenge Finals being rather more that what turned up at a relatively easily accessible venue on Sunday. Is the difference maybe that many of the "glory hunters" (whom I would define as people who turn up in the ICT end at major games but who attend the Caledonian Stadium at best infrequently) no longer bother? Or is it the case that, post SPL, the Challenge Cup - even the final, is regarded by many as a bit old hat?

As a typical born and bred Inversnessian, I find Heilandee's contribution a helluva lot more intelligible than the Mannie's. Righe'eenufmun!

In that case you probably featured in my vox pop which went out on the BBC the following morning! I was fortunate enough to have had my tape running when Charlie scored what turned out to be a short lived equaliser.

By which you presumably mean people in their 50s? :huh: :D :D

Sorry... my original mistake. It was November 88! 87 was the year Jags won the League. But to return to Cup ties v Dundee.......

Yes, having had a chance to think about it, I suspect what someone of Dalneigh Caley's vintage will be questioning is that you referred to it at the Comet End rather than the Distillery End. I'm not sure when the change was made. Late 70s perhaps and maybe the tin shed went at the same time? That was decrepit in the 60s when I was a kid. Sorry... I seem to have hijacked and altered the course of this thread rather! So to go back to previous cup encounters with Dundee, that 1-1 game v Dundee was CT's first ever cup tie at home. The previous month they had put East Stirling out of the Coca Cola Cup away in what was their first ever competitive match... before losing 3-0 in the second round... at Dens!!!

Talking about Inverness derby cup ties at Telford Street in the Highland League days, I'm sure, if you are old enough, that someone with a name like yours will remember a certain Qualifying Cup final replay there between Caley and Thistle in 1987. :D Oh yes... and Jags' last trophy was the 1993 Inverness Cup when in the final at Telford Street they beat Clach (winners over Caley in the "bus" semi final) 1-0. Jags' winning goal was scored by..... the current manager of Clach!

Steady on Heilandee! You are suffering from Dens Park Delusions of Grandeur!! I had a strange uneasiness about the facility with which you claimed the Dark Blues progessed to the next round and so consulted Against All Odds which tells me the game took place in 28.9.94. and that it was 1 all and Dundee went through 4-3 on penalties! :P Yes, I was there that night though. Dalneigh Caley.. not sure whether you are doubting this or simply indulging in nostalgia but the Comet End was indeed what the "away" Distillery End at Telford Street was called after the Distillery was replaced by retail units It was at that very same end that about ten months previously the Banned Rebels parked their bus and watched an Inverness Cup semi against Clach from the top deck! (Inverness Cup?.... v Clach?.... don't suppose the forthcoming revival could create such controversy... could it? :D )

Is this a reference to the North Stand in Inverness or something?

If he's not still presenting The Old Grey Whistle Test, I head a whisper that he's playing for Queen of the South.

Indeed they should, but in practice they are not - to the extreme detriment of football.

I wonder if Dornoch Caley may be referring more specifically to the Irish War of Independence, or what the various shades of Republican opinion which exist appear to regard as a war from 1969 - 1994 or indeed to the present day, depending on how hardline Republican the viewpoint is? One way or another, there is a contingent attached to Celtic which is rabidly opposed to anything to do with the British military. That has not been atypical of Ireland post 1921 where, for instance, the GAA for many years banned competition against representatives of the British forces or police. However that kind of mentality has found its way over to Scotland as a result of Irish immigrarion etc etc. But then, on the other side of the divide, we have the obscenity of the Orange Order (aka The BNP in Scotland) strutting its equally vile stuff on our streets. To make things worse, both sets of disagreeable behaviours have attached themselves to the two biggest football clubs in the country - and have arguably made them a good deal bigger since they have acted as a kind of magnet for people with such views. In fact I often wonder how big Rangers and Celtic would be if the Irish Sectarian problem had not found its way into the fabric of life in Scotland? The question therefore arises - how significant a factor have the religious and political problems of Ireland been (allowed to become) in the shaping of the nature of football lin Scotland? That is why, and I have said this on these forums before, I find myself attracted to the view that we should simply have told the whole lot of them to clear off in 1921 and go away and sort out their own problems on their own patch.

Bridge Ender.. a response for each of your three paragraphs above! 1) The official attendance last night was 590. In addition to that there was corporate hospitality (with food donated by local businesses - I took my son, it was very good) with raffles, extra Lily Lotto sales etc. The "pie shop" was also extremely busy. OK, the crowd could have been bigger but, although they did not know on the spot how much they had made, they reckon it was "a good few thousand". They say it's well worth repeating and the word is that at least one other "major club" may be lined up to do a repeat. 2) There is actually a League game there this Friday v Turriff who have been flooded out of their ground so the venue has been switched. Admission ?6. Get yerself along there! 3) Caledonian Thistle Properties (Caley D... geezabreak with the precise designation of the company! ) bought the playing surface and immediate surround from Clach in 1997 for ?280K and a few years later sold it on for the same amount to the Common Good Fund to whom ?46K is still owed in rent arrears. The land at the ends (Wine Shed, Social Club, Dressing Rooms, Car Park) still belongs to Clach but is now in the control of the Administrator. This land could be the key to the short to medium term survival of Clach but its disposal or otherwise is the business of the Administrator. Some time ago, Clach floated the proposal of making Grant Street an all weather facility and yes indeed, Inverness City do not have a home for their entire season. However no progress seems to have been made with regard to this.

I see that Charlie also gives a good plug for tonight's game at the back end of his piece in today's Courier. I hope it helps to bring in a few more.

You mean you had two OGs as well as the two for yourselves?! Wyness 101.. and anyone else hoping to attend... the kick off v Celtic is 7pm at Grant Street. This is to allow Celtic to avoid an overnight stay. I could thoroughly recommend to anyone to spend a tenner here in a very good cause. I'm taking my Celtic supporting son to hospitality (which is a bit more than a tenner but money well spent.)

thats a new way of describing a "dive".grant street park,makes albion rovers cliftonhill look like old trafford Look here mate, I really do wish your new enterprise well along there in Grantown but I think there's enough glass in your own house at Strathspey to make the throwing of stones a decidedly hazardous idea. After all your start in the Highland League has hardly been spectacular and as I understand it you have not yet reached the stage even of paying players (which Clach continue to do - albeit modestly). You have been on the wrong end of a few real roastings and you just don't know how things are going to go although I do hope they go well. It might be a more prudent strategy as a Highland League "new boy" (and apparently, from the tone of your posts, a "lifelong" Strathspey fan who has never had an interest in any other club?) to keep your head below the parapet and just find out how the set up works first. After all, Clach are founder members so have been in there for 116 years. Your club has been there for 13 very uncertain weeks. For instance you will find that the rest of the Highland League are totally behind Clach and their efforts to survive. One final point... has it not occurred to you that Clach, especially since they are a fellow North FA club, MIGHT just have been one of the clubs you depended on to vote you into your recently acquired place in the Highland League? In that event, your gratitude does not appear all that evident.

.... and certain Merkinchers attempting to rough up the visiting support which led to them getting very lengthy bans from Clach. I remember that game well. Also, I know exactly what you mean by a "'proper' football game" and couldn't agree more. I call it "the old Inverness football" which I was very reluctant to see go when there were initial moves for a three team merger but which I was delighted to see survive when Clach went alone. There is a certain "old world" feel about walking into Grant Street Park and I love it. I would certainly be terribly disappointed to see it go if Clach were to fold but the other way of looking at that is the very small number of fans who turn out to experience it. I was at Clach Park yesterday before moving on to ICT (missed all the goals there though ;) ) and I have to say that the crowd was just about the usual - no noticeable surge after the administration announcement. Maybe folk were spending a couple of extra quid in raffles (I certainly did) but little seemed to have changed. I took the opportunity to wander round and speak to a few Clachers and there is a burning desire for that club to survive - but at the same time a great deal of apprehension that it may not. The other thing that seems to be emerging is that other Highland League clubs also seem to be very keen for Clach to survive and that was more than evident from the Wickers I spoke to. One Clacher made the point that wee places like Rothes and Lossie can sustain Highland League football so why should Inverness be having such difficulty? I suppose the top line of a very lengthy conversation which you could have on that one is that Rothes and Lossie don't have a Caley Thistle in town.

This also, apparently, is the measure used to correlate school exam results with "affluence" or otherwise.

That is another prime example of a "novelty factor". When the Caledonian Stadium opened in 1996 there were crowds (even excluding derbies and celebrations of promotion/D3 title) of up to about 3000 just for bogstandard Third Division matches. Scottish football was absolutely amazed at this! However, as Mantis says there, these steadily subsided, with perhaps an upward blip when the second promotion was in the making. But once Caley Thistle became established in the First Division after going up again in 1999, apparently with no serious prospect of further advancement :) anything over 2000 was something of a rarity. Funnily enough, I'd be interested to see what size of crowd this week's goings on bring out at Grant Street v Wick on Saturday. In fact from a "news" point of view, this is where the local story is on Saturday (even if there's a "Caley Jags In Home Win Shock" line :) ) so I think I'll head for Grant Street for at least a large part of the game. On a more personal note, I would have to say that if Clach is not going to survive, I'd like to get there as often as possible for what's left (rather like visiting a seriously ill relative in hospital) and in addition the thought of the end of Molly's incredible Boardroom half time teas absolutely appals me!

look at the results we have been getting this season and crowds still get bigger I certainly wish you all the best and it's good to see the Highland League extend into an area which it previously hasn't reached. All I'm saying is that this is perhaps not as simple and clearcut a situation as you may think, especially so close to "shintyland". However I think we need all the Highland League mileage we can on the North FA side of the competition, given the financial big hitters that there are in Aberdeenshire so more power to Strathspey's elbow. However we seem to have allowed this thread to have wandered so let me take it back on course with the hope that tonight's meeting was the start of some means of maintaining Highland League football in Inverness.

i actually think your wrong and our support will increase season after season I would tend to go even a bit further than Mantis and suggest that two years might be a little optimistic since there is always an initial surge. However it very much depends on what Strathspey Thistle make of it themselves and whether they can start to get a few points on the board. There is nothing like success to bring in the crowds. But if the Inverness 94-95 experience (and indeed to some extent after they came "back" from Aberdeen in 2005) is anything to go by, there is definitely a danger of an initial surge before people revert to going away and doing whatever they did before. When CT started out in 1994 there was an initial crowd surge and when results, rather like Strathspey's at the moment, didn't work out all that well, the crowd dropped off quite steadily. It did, however, recover quite dramatically when results turned up again on the arrival of Pele.

You should maybe get that anora©k off the peg again since what I was working out were the odds against what actually happened, using the teams actually present at each stage so your suggestion doesn't in practice arise.

As far as I can see in the CIS and Challenge Cups to date (ICT are not yet in the Scottish Cup), both Ross County AND Caley Thistle have had five home draws and one away. (ICT to Partick Thistle and Ross County to ICT). The odds against that are around 10.7 to 1. Then there's the additional matter that between the first and second rounds of the CIS and Challenge Cup, ICT were drawn at home to Third Division opponents on all four occasions. I once calculated the odds against that as around 4000 to 1 but it's so long ago that I've forgotten how I did it. :)