Charles Bannerman

By which you presumably mean people in their 50s? :huh: :D :D

Sorry... my original mistake. It was November 88! 87 was the year Jags won the League. But to return to Cup ties v Dundee.......

Yes, having had a chance to think about it, I suspect what someone of Dalneigh Caley's vintage will be questioning is that you referred to it at the Comet End rather than the Distillery End. I'm not sure when the change was made. Late 70s perhaps and maybe the tin shed went at the same time? That was decrepit in the 60s when I was a kid. Sorry... I seem to have hijacked and altered the course of this thread rather! So to go back to previous cup encounters with Dundee, that 1-1 game v Dundee was CT's first ever cup tie at home. The previous month they had put East Stirling out of the Coca Cola Cup away in what was their first ever competitive match... before losing 3-0 in the second round... at Dens!!!

Talking about Inverness derby cup ties at Telford Street in the Highland League days, I'm sure, if you are old enough, that someone with a name like yours will remember a certain Qualifying Cup final replay there between Caley and Thistle in 1987. :D Oh yes... and Jags' last trophy was the 1993 Inverness Cup when in the final at Telford Street they beat Clach (winners over Caley in the "bus" semi final) 1-0. Jags' winning goal was scored by..... the current manager of Clach!

Steady on Heilandee! You are suffering from Dens Park Delusions of Grandeur!! I had a strange uneasiness about the facility with which you claimed the Dark Blues progessed to the next round and so consulted Against All Odds which tells me the game took place in 28.9.94. and that it was 1 all and Dundee went through 4-3 on penalties! :P Yes, I was there that night though. Dalneigh Caley.. not sure whether you are doubting this or simply indulging in nostalgia but the Comet End was indeed what the "away" Distillery End at Telford Street was called after the Distillery was replaced by retail units It was at that very same end that about ten months previously the Banned Rebels parked their bus and watched an Inverness Cup semi against Clach from the top deck! (Inverness Cup?.... v Clach?.... don't suppose the forthcoming revival could create such controversy... could it? :D )

Is this a reference to the North Stand in Inverness or something?

If he's not still presenting The Old Grey Whistle Test, I head a whisper that he's playing for Queen of the South.

Indeed they should, but in practice they are not - to the extreme detriment of football.

I wonder if Dornoch Caley may be referring more specifically to the Irish War of Independence, or what the various shades of Republican opinion which exist appear to regard as a war from 1969 - 1994 or indeed to the present day, depending on how hardline Republican the viewpoint is? One way or another, there is a contingent attached to Celtic which is rabidly opposed to anything to do with the British military. That has not been atypical of Ireland post 1921 where, for instance, the GAA for many years banned competition against representatives of the British forces or police. However that kind of mentality has found its way over to Scotland as a result of Irish immigrarion etc etc. But then, on the other side of the divide, we have the obscenity of the Orange Order (aka The BNP in Scotland) strutting its equally vile stuff on our streets. To make things worse, both sets of disagreeable behaviours have attached themselves to the two biggest football clubs in the country - and have arguably made them a good deal bigger since they have acted as a kind of magnet for people with such views. In fact I often wonder how big Rangers and Celtic would be if the Irish Sectarian problem had not found its way into the fabric of life in Scotland? The question therefore arises - how significant a factor have the religious and political problems of Ireland been (allowed to become) in the shaping of the nature of football lin Scotland? That is why, and I have said this on these forums before, I find myself attracted to the view that we should simply have told the whole lot of them to clear off in 1921 and go away and sort out their own problems on their own patch.

Bridge Ender.. a response for each of your three paragraphs above! 1) The official attendance last night was 590. In addition to that there was corporate hospitality (with food donated by local businesses - I took my son, it was very good) with raffles, extra Lily Lotto sales etc. The "pie shop" was also extremely busy. OK, the crowd could have been bigger but, although they did not know on the spot how much they had made, they reckon it was "a good few thousand". They say it's well worth repeating and the word is that at least one other "major club" may be lined up to do a repeat. 2) There is actually a League game there this Friday v Turriff who have been flooded out of their ground so the venue has been switched. Admission ?6. Get yerself along there! 3) Caledonian Thistle Properties (Caley D... geezabreak with the precise designation of the company! ) bought the playing surface and immediate surround from Clach in 1997 for ?280K and a few years later sold it on for the same amount to the Common Good Fund to whom ?46K is still owed in rent arrears. The land at the ends (Wine Shed, Social Club, Dressing Rooms, Car Park) still belongs to Clach but is now in the control of the Administrator. This land could be the key to the short to medium term survival of Clach but its disposal or otherwise is the business of the Administrator. Some time ago, Clach floated the proposal of making Grant Street an all weather facility and yes indeed, Inverness City do not have a home for their entire season. However no progress seems to have been made with regard to this.

I see that Charlie also gives a good plug for tonight's game at the back end of his piece in today's Courier. I hope it helps to bring in a few more.

You mean you had two OGs as well as the two for yourselves?! Wyness 101.. and anyone else hoping to attend... the kick off v Celtic is 7pm at Grant Street. This is to allow Celtic to avoid an overnight stay. I could thoroughly recommend to anyone to spend a tenner here in a very good cause. I'm taking my Celtic supporting son to hospitality (which is a bit more than a tenner but money well spent.)

thats a new way of describing a "dive".grant street park,makes albion rovers cliftonhill look like old trafford Look here mate, I really do wish your new enterprise well along there in Grantown but I think there's enough glass in your own house at Strathspey to make the throwing of stones a decidedly hazardous idea. After all your start in the Highland League has hardly been spectacular and as I understand it you have not yet reached the stage even of paying players (which Clach continue to do - albeit modestly). You have been on the wrong end of a few real roastings and you just don't know how things are going to go although I do hope they go well. It might be a more prudent strategy as a Highland League "new boy" (and apparently, from the tone of your posts, a "lifelong" Strathspey fan who has never had an interest in any other club?) to keep your head below the parapet and just find out how the set up works first. After all, Clach are founder members so have been in there for 116 years. Your club has been there for 13 very uncertain weeks. For instance you will find that the rest of the Highland League are totally behind Clach and their efforts to survive. One final point... has it not occurred to you that Clach, especially since they are a fellow North FA club, MIGHT just have been one of the clubs you depended on to vote you into your recently acquired place in the Highland League? In that event, your gratitude does not appear all that evident.

.... and certain Merkinchers attempting to rough up the visiting support which led to them getting very lengthy bans from Clach. I remember that game well. Also, I know exactly what you mean by a "'proper' football game" and couldn't agree more. I call it "the old Inverness football" which I was very reluctant to see go when there were initial moves for a three team merger but which I was delighted to see survive when Clach went alone. There is a certain "old world" feel about walking into Grant Street Park and I love it. I would certainly be terribly disappointed to see it go if Clach were to fold but the other way of looking at that is the very small number of fans who turn out to experience it. I was at Clach Park yesterday before moving on to ICT (missed all the goals there though ;) ) and I have to say that the crowd was just about the usual - no noticeable surge after the administration announcement. Maybe folk were spending a couple of extra quid in raffles (I certainly did) but little seemed to have changed. I took the opportunity to wander round and speak to a few Clachers and there is a burning desire for that club to survive - but at the same time a great deal of apprehension that it may not. The other thing that seems to be emerging is that other Highland League clubs also seem to be very keen for Clach to survive and that was more than evident from the Wickers I spoke to. One Clacher made the point that wee places like Rothes and Lossie can sustain Highland League football so why should Inverness be having such difficulty? I suppose the top line of a very lengthy conversation which you could have on that one is that Rothes and Lossie don't have a Caley Thistle in town.

This also, apparently, is the measure used to correlate school exam results with "affluence" or otherwise.

That is another prime example of a "novelty factor". When the Caledonian Stadium opened in 1996 there were crowds (even excluding derbies and celebrations of promotion/D3 title) of up to about 3000 just for bogstandard Third Division matches. Scottish football was absolutely amazed at this! However, as Mantis says there, these steadily subsided, with perhaps an upward blip when the second promotion was in the making. But once Caley Thistle became established in the First Division after going up again in 1999, apparently with no serious prospect of further advancement :) anything over 2000 was something of a rarity. Funnily enough, I'd be interested to see what size of crowd this week's goings on bring out at Grant Street v Wick on Saturday. In fact from a "news" point of view, this is where the local story is on Saturday (even if there's a "Caley Jags In Home Win Shock" line :) ) so I think I'll head for Grant Street for at least a large part of the game. On a more personal note, I would have to say that if Clach is not going to survive, I'd like to get there as often as possible for what's left (rather like visiting a seriously ill relative in hospital) and in addition the thought of the end of Molly's incredible Boardroom half time teas absolutely appals me!

look at the results we have been getting this season and crowds still get bigger I certainly wish you all the best and it's good to see the Highland League extend into an area which it previously hasn't reached. All I'm saying is that this is perhaps not as simple and clearcut a situation as you may think, especially so close to "shintyland". However I think we need all the Highland League mileage we can on the North FA side of the competition, given the financial big hitters that there are in Aberdeenshire so more power to Strathspey's elbow. However we seem to have allowed this thread to have wandered so let me take it back on course with the hope that tonight's meeting was the start of some means of maintaining Highland League football in Inverness.

i actually think your wrong and our support will increase season after season I would tend to go even a bit further than Mantis and suggest that two years might be a little optimistic since there is always an initial surge. However it very much depends on what Strathspey Thistle make of it themselves and whether they can start to get a few points on the board. There is nothing like success to bring in the crowds. But if the Inverness 94-95 experience (and indeed to some extent after they came "back" from Aberdeen in 2005) is anything to go by, there is definitely a danger of an initial surge before people revert to going away and doing whatever they did before. When CT started out in 1994 there was an initial crowd surge and when results, rather like Strathspey's at the moment, didn't work out all that well, the crowd dropped off quite steadily. It did, however, recover quite dramatically when results turned up again on the arrival of Pele.

You should maybe get that anora©k off the peg again since what I was working out were the odds against what actually happened, using the teams actually present at each stage so your suggestion doesn't in practice arise.

As far as I can see in the CIS and Challenge Cups to date (ICT are not yet in the Scottish Cup), both Ross County AND Caley Thistle have had five home draws and one away. (ICT to Partick Thistle and Ross County to ICT). The odds against that are around 10.7 to 1. Then there's the additional matter that between the first and second rounds of the CIS and Challenge Cup, ICT were drawn at home to Third Division opponents on all four occasions. I once calculated the odds against that as around 4000 to 1 but it's so long ago that I've forgotten how I did it. :)

When that happened there was still an Inverness club left in the Highland League and that to me at any rate was desperately important. Now it appears that there is a significant chance that there will be no Highland League football in the place that the Highland League was founded and that would be tragic. My own feeling is that the best chance initially lies with the efforts being made by a stalwart group of "Clachers" to finance the TEAM as opposed to the club through the next few weeks and keep them on the park. These begin with a meeting tomorrow night. This is happening with the blessing of the Administrator. If this is successful it may just create enough breathing space for someone perhaps to come in and form "Clachnacuddin 2009" to inherit the playing arm from "Clachnacuddin 1990" which could then depart in peace. However there are at least three problems there. * The pitch and changing rooms would need to continue to be made avaliable. * The Highland League and the SFA would have to agree to the change and I understand that this may not be straightforward. * And most importantly Clach 2009 would have to achieve the underlying viability which eluded its predeceeors Clach 1990 and the original Limited Company set up in the 70s. (And indeed from what Gordy said above, a lot of its predecessors across several previous decades.)

If I could try to throw some light on a couple of points raised by Stevico earlier.... * David Dowling doesn't actually need to remain as Chairman of Clach in order to remain on the SFA Council. As I understand it something like an Honorary Presidency would suffice or holding a post within another club and I gather that he has had a couple of offers. He has actually offered to step down as Chairman on one or two occasions, including a meeting in the Clach Club in the summer of last year where he was unanimously persuaded to stay on. (I also note from Strathyjags' posts that old fashioned Old Labour Socialism is alive and well with the premise that wealth should be redistributed in such a way as people who are fairly well off should automatically be expected to subsidise loss making football clubs!) * I suspect that Inverness City still have a long way to go in order to aspire to Highland League status. In particular their finances are a long way short of what would be required for that to happen. I was asked on one occasion by an official of the club how much I thought it would cost to operate in the Highland League. I said that I reckoned ?50-80,000 a year would be right at the bottom end and it was clear that they were well out of that bracket. Then they would have to gain election to the league. It might be a bit presumptuous to assume that Clach, if they folded, would automatically be replaced by an Inverness team, even though it seems that a lot of people are of the view that the Highland League should or indeed must have a team from the Highland Capital where the league was founded in 1893. City would also have to have a proper permanent ground which has eluded them so far and there would have to be significant changes in the arrangements for Grant Street (such as to the ?14K a year which the CGF's commercial letting arrangements require them to charge) before that would become a possibility. * PS - Doofer's Dad. That's a very interesting post looking back to 1993 when Clach pulled out of the merger talks. I would make two comments ** Had they become part of a merged team then Highland League football would have disappeared from Inverness from 1994 (unless some arrangement could have been made for ICT reserves). ** Had the merger continued as a three club effort, I do not think Inverness would have gained SFL status in 1994. However now is not the place or time to write the 5000 or so words needed to argue that case fully! PPS - regards to Doofer! :D

Gordy... I'd like to speak to you about that at some point. If it was The Courier I doubt if it would have been the front page though since that was ads only until about 1988. CaleyD..... before I made that post, I put money on you getting back on the subject of which of the various companies this was. :024:

Well there you go.. a very quick and efficient service from MFR which one or two people seem to have missed. I must have misunderstood what John Rose told me when we were at Dingwall on Saturday.

I have just heard that David Dowling will be interviewed live on Sports Report on Radio Scotland at 1245. If you are in the Highlands and Islands or any other area with a BBC local bulletins service and want to listen, perhaps best tune into 810MW rather than FM since I can't be sure if the interview will be before or after FM opts out to go to local news bulletins. Otherwise it doesn't matter where you tune in.