Charles Bannerman

Reef.. I'm afraid that statement simply shows how poorly informed you actually are on these topics and also again highlights your tendency to come up with the first unsubstantiated statement which comes into your head as long as it suits your preconceived point of view. What actually happened was that INE's (not HIE's) preferred stadium site was Stratton Farm on the A96 which they wanted to develop to kick start the Golden Mile. This was one of a short list of four sites from a long list of 13 from Bruce Hare's 1993 feasibility study into stadium sites in Inverness - which is incidentally not at all well endowed with suitable sites. Also among the four was the current East Longman site which was the strong preference of THE CLUB. ICT and INE then had a protracted debate about this during the spring of 1994 and the CLUB's will eventually prevailed. So Inverness Caledonian Thistle's stadium is where it is because that is where Inverness Caledonian Thistle and not INE wanted it! It is also reasonable to mention that the possibility of a marina first arose away back in 1995 - over four years before David Sutherland had anything to do with ICT - in an interview I did with Councillor Clive Goodman, Chairman of the Harbour Trust, about the possibility of the stadium road linking through to the Harbour which he said could vastly increase the value of the area, which indeed it has. The Common Good Fund's £900,000 stadium grant has been refunded many times over by that alone.

So were you a Jags supporter in the pre merger days then?

Now that's a pretty damning admission to be making for someone who has spent much of today making blanket assertions and accusations (albeit totally lacking substance) about events of the very era in question! As it happens my memory serves me quite well... even better since I recently happened to take the chance to listen over again to an hour of my broadcast reports from that period..... and I certainly have no recollection at all of reporting that Peter Donald was accosted by hooligans... notwithstanding the way a number of them frequently behaved! On the other hand if Reefinweed would care to indicat in which publication or in which radio broadcast I allegedly said this, and when, it may help to clarify the matter. Maybe also it's Reef's dodgy memory which prevents him from recollecting that BOTH sides within Caley recruited equally vigorously in that autumn of 1993 to the extent that, although ST holders increased from just over 100 to 576, the whole exercise only changed the voting figures by 0.1% (zero point one per cent) at the 1st December meeting compared with the 9th September one. And even after that exhaustive recruitment, the Rebels still could only muster 226 people sufficiently "anti" to vote as such. But really, this thread has spent much of the day floundering among assertions which belong firmly to the same stable as "Hitler is alive and well in Bolivia", "The Loch Ness Monster has been doing somesaults in front of Urquhart Castle", "a Lancaster bomber has just landed on the moon" and "Lord Lucan is hiding Shergar on a ranch in Western Australia". And regarding (again anecdotal) claims of the "hole" in Caley's 93-94 accounts corresponding to alleged "free" tickets, there was a discrepancy of £160 - the equivalent of EIGHT tickets. This was even accepted without challenge at the last ever Caley AGM in June 94 at the old Royal Academy which actually had a majority of Rebels present because the moderates didn't bother to attend since the real action had by this time moved on, with the merger having been finalised four months earlier.

Once again you are attempting to refer to anecdotal evidence which you have not made stand up. If you want to claim that, it's up to you and not to me to back it up. But in any case, the relevant figure is what is, by current standards, the rather small number of 226, despite all the recruitment by the rebels, who actually voted against after all that recruitment - and only a small proportion even of that still choose to stay away. A tiny loss for a massive gain. Charles i asked you to tell the truth...if you don't believe me perhaps you should ask some of the players around at the time(lazy journalism on your behalf if you never did it at the time) you know the FACTS so please do not try and gloss over them.Nothing will change ICT are the club now and thats "progress" but please deal in the facts as you know them,perhaps it wouldn't look good if you said the "real" story how many "new" season ticket holders was there in the weeks leading up to the vote? was there mysteriously over 100 new season tickets holders in the weeks prior to the vote? which in the cold light of day was enough to swing the vote? Also while we are dealing in facts is it not true that you reported that Peter Donald was "accosted by hooligans"? when in fact he was being presented with a petition? what was the reason for that? Reef... you keep making assertions which you then fail to back up by evidence but still aks me questions about. It's YOUR responsibility to back up any case you want to make.... not mine!!!

Once again you are attempting to refer to anecdotal evidence which you have not made stand up. If you want to claim that, it's up to you and not to me to back it up. But in any case, the relevant figure is what is, by current standards, the rather small number of 226, despite all the recruitment by the rebels, who actually voted against after all that recruitment - and only a small proportion even of that still choose to stay away. A tiny loss for a massive gain.

Reef... why can't people just accept the facts based on concrete evidence rather than continually regurgitating the same anecdotal and unsubstantiated myths based on wishful tninking? PRE MERGER * Typical combined attendances at Telford Street and Kingsmills were around 600 - so you seem to be suggesting that roughly as many people stopped going as ever attended in the first place. This reminds me of the Battle of Britain when the Luftwaffe claimed to have shot down more planes than the RAF actually had * About 160 attended between the two original merger meetings. * After both sides within Caley recruited exhaustively for weeks and, note, with season tickets costing just £20 for adults (and £10 for juveniles) they managed to increase that to 576 - of whom 226 voted against the merger in the second vote. POST MERGER * There is a core minimum home attendance of nearly 3000 but more typically nearer 3500. CONCLUSION - Irrespective of a very few who may not have wished to buy into it, the merger has resulted in hugely increased numbers of people watching football at a hugely higher level and has hence contributed massively to the game in this area. Your base maximum figure for refuseniks is 226, many of whom now attend, have left the area or have died. So where are all these people that this serial wishful thinking, based on bald claims with no evidence whatsoever is coming up with? SUGGESTION TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE TO MAKE THESE VACUOUS CLAIMS - join the Flat Earth Society whose views have a rather better chance of enjoying some credibility.

In possibly an earlier era, Marshall Notman (who changed his surname to Grant and was a distance running champion as well as hooker for Highland Rugby Club and PE man at Craig Phadrig Hospital) used to run a mini van round Dalneigh (and maybe elsewhere) selling rolls. This was in the 60s when streets maybe weren't so busy and Marshall used to keep the van running, unattended, down for instance St Andrew Drive where I used to live, while he would run to various front doors and back to the van, delivering bags of rolls!

I don't think that's the correct spelling. I think "Bartincek" may be closer but not necessarily completely correct either.

Och well Glenmhor, this would have been the 60s when anoraks were very popular!

Provost Wotherspoon had ST1 and JS1. Rumour had it in the 60s that the ITV company which made The Saint wanted to buy it from him but he wouldn't sell although he gave permission for them to use it on Simon Templar's (Roger Moore's) car. His legal firm MacAndrew and Jenkins also had the phone number Inverness 1 pre STD (Subscriber Trunk Dialling not Sexually Transmittable Disease!) and when that came in it became 30001 and then 233001 (just as The Courier evolved from 59 to 233059). MacAndrew and Jenkins still use that number for one of their departments. But to return to topic... I don't know if Provost Wotherspoon ever drove an ice cream van as a holiday job!!

Thank you CMIB!! That has jogged my memory just perfectly! I am now also pretty sure that Pagliaris of the wee rounded blue van with the Harry Lime music fame also had their permanent base in the Academy St chip shop. I also remember EVA 11 but possibly after the days when it was a Riley or an MG. Back in the 60s that was the best chip shop in Inverness that I was aware of although I never really tried Jojo G's at the Bught before they moved to Hilton which is currently the best in my view. In that era, Serafinis was also pretty good and you even got a decent portion for 4d. Who ran the chipper in Wells St before it became a Chinese?

Mike Noble? Captain of D3 winning ICT side in 1997. I think he was still at Thistle when they won the Highland League in 87 and the Q Cup in 88 and he had definitely gone to Caley by the time they won their very last trophies such as the 1994 North Cup.

Now that's interesting. I wasn't aware of that. Diggar MacGillivray was a keen member of the Burma Star Association having been in the 14th Army Artillery.

I can't remember any more - your list is pretty extensive. Old Gilbert Ross (tweed suit and moustache), as I recollect, had been quite a senior officer in the army during the war, possibly a Brigadier even. That Academy St shop was pretty big with quite a few staff in the old brown coats (selling "four candles"!!!) Mitchell's I always associate with going to BB HQ at Washington Court just along Hamilton St (close to where Marks' front door is now) to assemble for church parades under the orders of Scoobies (Billly Urquhart's father in law). Fraser and McColl when I was young was owned by Eric MacKay. He also was a big shot in the BBs and used to be Commandant of the Camp at Carrbridge. Can anyone remember if he was the father of Size MacKay who I think was a bit of a lad initially, but eventually became a high powered Edinburgh advocate and was rumoured to be close to the anti merger faction? Inverness Tool Distributors/ Saw Service was also in an earlier era run by a Mr MacKay - David MacKay but I think he was bought out by James MacDonald who was a fairly big player in Clach after the 1990 rescue. H.I.S. is now a pretty big concern and seems to occupy a veritable colony of buildings on that Longman site. And in a link with the "eateries" thread, Cobbs Cafe in H.I.S. is first class - especially its bacon rolls which are huge. I now have this weekly ritual of popping in there for a bacon roll and a read of the papers on my way through to Dingwall to hear the pre match thoughts of Mr Adams on a Thursday morning!

Off the top of my head, Princess Margaret got married in 1960 when I was just a bit too young to remember a lot of detail. But while these other establishments may well have been there (and they are definitely names I also remember) I am quite certain that by the mid-late 60s Fornaris was also inthat bit of Academy St. And thanks IBM for adding the Pieraccinis. I had forgotten about them.

So was Dorando's the cafe up opposite the Phoenix? I remember Victor Fornari - he was in the year behind me in school. The hairdresser's was upstairs in between the Locarno and the corner of Queensgate. It was very popular among teenage girls in the 60s if i remember.

You really should have waited about 28 hours to post this, then at least it would have had the distinction of being the daftest post of the year.......... I think Jaggy should be very, very afraid! Because he has now placed himself under threat of arrest by Northern Constabulary for making statements offensive to Meerkats!

If that was the actual question, I would be a nit picking pain in the backside and contend that in 1994 Inverness was still "the town" (mun) and not by then a "flameen suttee"

This is all good stuff! Renato Turriani was a Jaggie, and in fact was one of the committee members named as defenders by Martin Ross in his ultimately unsuccessful legal action against the old Jags in 1994-95. Then, as I remember, Renato was also for a short time involved with ICT and briefly looked after the catering and pie stalls. And Dougie... yes the old supermarket cafes in the days when they served real food! I think Liptons was the first in the late 60s, but like yourself I had a particular preference for Safeways off Academy Street - both the cafe and the shop. For a few years I used to do both my mother's and our own family food shopping there after one of their excellent breakfasts which included an uncooked tomato since I don't like cooked ones. I have to say that no supermarket in Inverness has since matched Safeways. Their successor Morrisons is the best of what we have, although the queues are too slow, and well ahead of Tesco and Asda, welcome though Asda is as competition for Tesco. Similarly the Morrisons cafe is "OK", albeit a bit slow with the service, but still well ahead of Tesco and Asda which often verge on the pitiful.

If I had gone on the regular version of the programme in 1998, 25 years later than I actually did, the merger might have been my specialist subject! But Mantis... pray explain... what was the question? And once you've started... do feel free to finish!

Problem? What problem? As a club Caley Thistle has progressed from the Highland League to the SPL in the mere half generation since the merger took place, which is far better progress than anyone voting for or against the merger, especially the small number of eggs who volunteered to break themselves in the process of making this omelette, would ever have dreamt of. So where's you problem Doogie?

BM I am virtually certain that the Serafinis had the West End Chip Shop opposite the Tarry Ile. I've been trying to pair Inverness-Italian families with their establishments with only partial success. Can anyone help? Serafinis - West End chipper. Salvadoris - Greig St cafe. Coffrinis - Ness Cafe. Pagliaris - wee blue ice cream van with the Harry Lime tune. ????? - Locarno Bernardis - shop at the bottom of Stephen's Brae. Turrianis - ?????? ????? - Rendezvous. Guibarellis - Bught then the Hilton chippie. Also, was the Locarno the one on Adacemy St that opened through into the market as well or was it the one up nearer the Phoenix? In that case, what was the "other" one? And who owned the Academy St chipper? Were the local branch of the Rizzas also active in the business in Inverness? As far as I am aware, the only Italian family still in the food retailing business is the Guibarellis at Hilton because after Mike died last year the son took it over. What a loss all these establishments are to Inverness culture and what a huge part they played in the middle years of the 20th century. When I was in the Scottish Football Museum at Hampden a few years ago I came across an audio interview of I THINK Scotty Bernardi describing playing football whilst in internment on the Isle of Man during WW2. In 1940 Churchill simply said "collar the lot" and every single British resident of Italian and German extraction was interned on the spot, including, one supposes much of the Inverness Italian community who had been here for years.

So if I ever go in there myself, how will I know you, Dougal? Will you be the one with the blue and white Santa hat with "Bah Humbug" on it?

It was Salvadori's Jock. They did legendary ice cream as well with raspberry sauce if you wanted it. For some strange reason I have a random memory of sitting in one of Mr Salvadori's cubicles watching a Wimbledon final in the mid 60s on his TV where a German called Bungert got thrashed by, I think, Newcombe. I think the old man's name was Salvatori Salvadori and the son was called Vaaro. The daughter who, by the time I was taking notice of these things might have been late 20s early 30s, was indeed a looker. Salvadori's has been a Chinese takeaway for over 30 years now and indeed most Greig Street businesses have changed over the years. Champan's Garage is of course the ICT Social Club, Frank Hill's paper shop is a barber's, Mr Baddon's bike shop is a general merchant's, the Coop is Highland TV services, Jimmy Munro's grocer shop sells and mends computers, I'm not sure if the Post Office, which still has the gold letters embedded in the pavement, is still a Post Office, I think the Chemist's is still a Chemist.... and Diggar's is definitely still a barber's with his son Dennis, who must be a few years over 60 now, still running it. And the ghost of Diggar still stands out on the pavement, coupon in hand,shouting good natured abuse at John Brooman or any other passer by known to him......

I don't think the game on 2nd January will have any impact on our average attendance whatsoever. It won't now, but were it not for that last post, which drops a huge hint as to the real venue, the one person sitting on his own at the Caledonian Stadium on January 2nd waiting for derby action would have knocked a hell of a hole in the current average for the season!