Charles Bannerman

I'll definitely go with your verdict on that, ClassICT, since I only had a part timetable for one year at Midmills and wasn't about the staffroom a lot. I don't remember Donnie at Culduthel and indeed I'm now wondering if it was actually his girlfriend who taught Art at Millburn. So I'll happily defer to your more direct knowledge - and in any case that also allows me to duck the question put by IBM in post #32

As far as I recollect it was at Millburn that Donnie Munro taught Art. I'm fairly sure he was there during the year I taught at Millburn (1976-77) and don't think he was one of those who moved on to Culduthel when that opened in 1977. He left teaching at a pretty early stage as well.

Including darkest Lancashire! OK IHE.. enough.... as Kingsmills puts it.... "oxygen" for one day!

Doubt it - wouldn't be much different from what ICT are getting now. That would be missing the point though - who'd have thought you'd be trying to wind up the same prefect 40 years on!!! Johndo may indeed be fishing for a reaction, but if so I suspect it's not from me! This is just another example of IHE's well tried tactic of making an deliberately absurd statement just to see who will rise to the bait and take it seriously.

How do you know there's plenty more if you don't know them? Pure class!! The perfect answer! Or maybe Forza meets them at the annual congress of the Walter Mitty Society. But is it not now time to set aside 20 year old fantasies and move on?

(CUE THE HORLICKS MUSIC).... eeh lad... ah remember 't day when 15,000 Caley fans signed Buenos Hornell's petition against 't merger and 83% of nicked copies of 't Courier 'ad 't coupons filled in saying "nay lad"! Seriously, though, I think we now have claims of more refuseniks than ever went to Telford Street or Kingsmills in the first place However probably the most revealing statistic of the lot is that the most bitter year of the whole fraught affair - 1994 - saw the biggest ever percentage increase in attendance at matches. When it was Thistle and Caley, typical combined home gates, which were in decline, came to about 600. Then the first season of Caley Thistle - despite Baltacha's uninspiring tactics - average attendance more than doubled to 1275, which of course has gone onward and generally upward ever since. So in the face of all these alleged "boys at my work who don't go any more" (so what did they do instead - go off on holiday with Shergar and Lord Lucan?), crowds actually doubled in the first, controversial season of the new team. The last 20 years to a large extent boil down to the following single sentence - As a result of two clubs joining forces, Inverness progressed from the Highland League to the top half of the SPL and attendances rose almost seven fold. So quite frankly, if progress like that has been made, I don't actually give a flying toss about anyone who might have thrown the rattle out of the phone box and decided not to share in the magnificent experience. If 40 ex Jaggies and a few more Howden Enders have taken the hump, then that's a tiny price to pay. It's a wee bit like spending a pound to earn a hundred. And I really wish the Flat Earth Society would stop banging on with their wishful thinking about numbers which simply don't add up by continually returning to this now tedious and redundant subject. ICT is a top six SPL club - job largely done but progress still in process.

In terms of "major draw" crowds (ie 6000ish plus), at the TCS there have usually been three per season between Rangers and Celtic. This season that dropped to two from Celtic only, but with two more due to Highland derbies, this makes a total of four. On the other hand many of these have been at times other than 3pm on a Saturday, which tends to cause a fall away. A 6000 crowd compared with, say, the 3500 which it may replace gives 2400 extra which, across 19 home games, ups the average by about 125. Then there is the additional issue of Ross County joining ICT in the SPL. There are possibly two additional factors here. Firstly, I have heard it said that a number of away fans are choosing one trip to the Highlands and since Ross County in their first season in the league, several are going there to see what Victoria Park is like. Similarly there is, I believe, a floating support about the inner Moray Firth which has historically tended to patronise both grounds. Again with County in the SPL for the first time, the balance of these may well have drifted towards Dingwall this season. To what extent either or both of these factors swing back towards the TCS as County establish themselves as a regular SPL presence remains to be seen. Anecdotally it also SEEMS that there have been more non-Saturday 3pm KOs this season, which will also depress the numbers, but I haven't checked this out. I think we are dealing wirh a very complex range of factors here.

I am somewhat bemused at how one or two threads on here seem to be expressing the view that part of ICT's core business and obligation should include providing the opportunity for some kind of summer continental beano for the fans and that the competitive and pre season training policy should be amended to accommodate that!

Got it now. Intertoto Cup! I have to say that the arguments about Europe also tend to mirror discussions about a possible fourth stand at the Caledonian Stadium. How do the possible benefits stand up against the likely costs? I think you have to look at this in the context of a club whose finances generally tend to hover on or just short of the break even point. I suspect that the year to May 2013 will turn out a bit better than average for various reasons, but 2012-13 has been an exceptional season. I would suggest that priority number one has to be affording and sustaining a squad which can first and foremost continue to secure SPL football (remember how "squeaky bum" last season was in danger of becoming) and finish as far up the league as possible. I don't think ICT is in the position to put essentials at risk for the sake of high profile luxuries which - in the grander scheme of things - don't really mean that much in real terms. I also wonder how many of the people who are making a noise about Europe or about a fourth stand would also be among the first to complain if the team started to struggle for lack of affordable squad depth.

I don't think it's as much as that - it's probably nearer £80,00. I saw the figures once and I think the drop between 2nd and 3rd is over £100,000 but 3rd to 4th is rather less. Certainly what he said to me was that the club isn't geared up for Europe (and I would suggest nor should it be, given the remote chance each year which came a lot closer this time.) What I would be wondering is how the team would get wherever. For instance chartering planes is expensive if scheduled flights don't work out. Then there could well be visas to be acquired, accommodation to be paid for. Is there an entry fee for the Europa League? Are there any implications for hosting the home leg? And to echo the arguments surrounding that Diddy Cup whose name escapes me for the moment but which was given consideration in Charlie's time, what are the implications regarding being fit and ready to play by mid July - and the possible consequences for the next season? How much money is to be made from this stage of the Europa League? I am not saying that ICT qualfying for Europe would necessarily have bee a bad thing. But I would suggest that, alongside the kudos and the novelty, there would also have been a significant down side.

Completely off topic, but this has just reminded me of a tale I heard recently of Davie Milroy's French teacher Curly Stuart telling him he spoke the language "with a Clachnararry accent". When I confronted him with the anecdote, Davie cheerfully admitted it! To return to topic, with fans of both sides travelling from Inverness I would imagine the bridge will be pretty bad on the way north before the game, and much worse on the way back when everyone will be trying to get back across a much shorter time interval. When I was on my way back from Ross Co v Celtic a couple of Sundays ago, I didn't leave Dingwall until an hour after full time and still hit the back of the southbound queue nearer the Tore roundabout than the Munlochy turn off.

Aye, but Mantis anticipated that and deliberately gave out a wrong name for the Sky reporter! Mind you, Dougal is probably already heading for the phone box on Telford Street to look out his blue Santa suit and Bah Humbug hat. Oh yes, and the old footage of Cup Finals at Hampden in the 1930s with crowds of 130,000 who he will say are Caley fans meeting to protest against the Merger.

Maybe I should have said "guarantee" getting into Europe!

Well I reckon 16 and a half hours (excluding replays and extra time - when that eventually superseded multiple replays) through 11 rounds from the Q Cup 1st to the Scottish Cup Final and then whatever it took to get to the Cupwinners' Cup final. I don't know how long that was, but any Aberdeen fan would tell you in a flash! As for the £millions... probably about £56 for getting through the Q Cup part of it. On which subject, here's another reflection of how football in the Highlands has progressed since ICT came along. Remember the absolute joy at clubs simply getting to the Qualifying Cup "group stages" (aka the last four which meant you were in the "real" Scottish Cup)? A subsequent visit from Clyde or trip to Stenhousemuir would then be the highlight of the season. That was the situation as recently as season 1993-94 - when neither Inverness team did so since Jags put Caley out at the first hurdle before losing out themselves in the quarter finals to - I think... oops.... Ross County! So in 1993...you have to beat Ross County to get into the Scottish Cup. In 2013....you have to beat Ross County to get into Europe. You still with us Dougal?

Maybe you should outshine the Aberdeen fans and have an even bigger 30th anniversary celebration of that come 2015! Now there's an interesting thought! How many hours away from the Cupwinners Cup final was the first round of our old friend, the Qualifying Cup?

Look folks, maybe it's not a great idea to allow celebration of ICT's meteoric success and the 20th anniversary of the conception of that club to be sidetracked by the likes of Doogie. The first four posts were absolutely great, but since then, Inverness's answer to the Flat Earth Society has unfortunately become able to sidetrack this thread. Don't rise to it!

I read this as an article celebrating 20 years since inception. 20 years since a few people had the foresight to realise that an Inverness team could do what many other teams have failed to do even though they've been established for a hell of a lot longer. What I cant see is any reason why anyone would need to apologise for success. Precisely right Alex. There had been previous half baked suggestions about mergers for decades, but - apart from the 1973 vote when Thistle unsuccessfully went it alone - there was never an opportunity to put one into practice. May 1993 provided just that opportunity. I was going to say it's a pity that there are just a few people like Doogie who remain in denial and cannot acknowledge the reality that what happened between 1993 and 1996 has been a roaring and still developing success, which of course makes it stick in the throat of those who did their utmost to prevent it from happening and keep Inverness football in the dark ages. I am also now wondering if Dougal is really a staunch pro-mergerite having a long term laugh by posing as some kind of caricature Caley rebel and posting the stuff he does. I'm not really convinced that anyone could sustain the posting of such demonstrable rubbish and actually mean it.

When I saw the "M-word" in the title of this thread, I made the very safe prediction that when I opened it up, I would find that Dougal had already emerged from the woodwork to post at least once! But anyway, let's get on with what really matters. It's actually 20 years ago this month that the whole process started which has so far culminated in the top 6 of the SPL and which may further culminate in European status for Caley Thistle in Dingwall on Sunday. It was on 20th May 1993 that INE and the clubs revealed that they were discussing a possible merged bid for national league football and then at their AGM on the 27th, the SFL voted - only because Raith Rovers director Bob Paxton cast his against his instructions - to go to four divisions of 10 by taking in two new clubs. But if it's Europe we're talking about, let's go a further year back to 1992 and the ultimately abortive Superleague breakaway scheme. Inverness was making serious overtures to that too until it collapsed - and while talks were still ongoing, I did an interview with then Clach chairman David Dowling on what national league football could do for Inverness. In the course of the interview, he speculated that one day an Inverness team might play in Europe and he was roundly ridiculed for making what at the time seemed an inconceivable suggestion. Along similar lines, Dougie McGilvray was thought to be off his rocker in 1994 when he bet Tam Cowan live on Radio Scotland that Caley Thistle would be in the Premier League within 10 years - but so it transpired.

As I understand it, the decision not to allow pre match opening of pubs in Dingwall for Ross County v Celtic was made by Invergordon Councillor Maxine Smith, Convener of the Licensing Board, using delegated powers. Disruption of church services appears to have been a factor here. It was Councillor Smith's casting vote which earlier secured the (highly commendable!) binning of the Inverness midnight curfew. I have to say that the first thing I witnessed on driving into the centre of Dingwall around 1115 on Sunday was knots of football fans hanging around aimlessly on street corners, with some of the less well informed tugging in vain at pub doors, only to find them securely locked!

All the same.... just don't take the bait!!!!

The fabric of the High School is in a lot better nick than the Royal Academy, even though it's more than twice as old (1936 compared with 1977). The current Royal Academy building is a complete tip which began to deteriorate more or less from the moment it opened. It is also incapable of accommodating its projected future roll while much of the High School is surplus to requirement. In its heyday the IHS accommodated around 1500 whereas now it's about a third of that for various reasons - including because some snobby parents want their kids educated along with posher youngsters in other establishments. Here's an interesting angle on the Royal Academy fabric. As I said, the current 1977 building has become knackered after less than 40 years and will be rightly demolished in 2016. But its predecessors at Midmills (1895), Academy St (1792) and even the old Grammar School in Dunbar's Hospital in Church St (1668) are still in full use!

The information above is also consistent with what Alex says in his book. The original ground was about 50 yards nearer the canal than the later one. The original ground was on the clay excavations from the Canal. The later one was developed from 1920 on 2.8 acres of land bought for £275! So the £1M obtained in 1996 represents a return of nearly 400,000% on the original investment!

It's possible that Alex Main's 1986 centenary history "Caley All The Way" (which I don't have at hand where I am at the moment) may throw some light on that. On the other hand Alex was severely handicapped by the Telford Strret grandstand fire of 1950 which meant that so many of Caley's old records went up in smoke and were lost.

I'm with Gringo here. I think the 2-1 at Broadwood in May 2004 was a turning point in ICT's history. You can seldom put that kind of thing down to single games in a 36 match season and it was the St Johnstone result the following Saturday which clinched the First Division title and (eventually!) SPL status. But my memory of the result at Broadwood was that it created a wind of change throughout ICT in terms of thinking and perceptions, when a lot of people really started to believe that the title could well be on.

Interesting insight into a situation which nonetheless has still redeemed itself since the earlier, much darker days! Cheers HD.