Charles Bannerman

Not quite. SOME Clachers dislike ICT (sic) but there is also a lot of empathy. For instance you will very frequently find the Clach committee boys in the ICT (sic!) Social Club on a Saturday night and a number of their supporters. Since their own unfortunately had to be sold, the ICT (sic ) Club has almost become a new Clach Club.

Was it Whitehill who had the temerity to score first at the Caledonian Stadium in the Cup several years ago before losing 8-1? I always get mixed up with these non league teams down there - apart from Gala Fairydean because of Chairman Matt Hall's intransigence when CT was in its infancy and Spartans because everybody remembers Spartans!

Thoroughly to be recommended! What a performance just a couple of years after leaving administration!

Would there not be a wonderful irony if the absurdity which is the 11-1 were to be what eventually sank 12-12-18 if two of the "lesser lights" (no disrespect to st Mirren and - subject to tomorrow's board meeting - Ross County there) decided to vote against it. A refreshing case of a silly rule brought in for the protection of the big clubs being exploited by the smaller ones. "Gloriously hoist by their own petard" was the expression I used elsewhere.

I'm not in favour of 12-12-18 but basically I'm not sure there is ANY suitable format for a football market the size of Scotland's which includes two clubs which are sucking in a disproportionately large slice of it due to the unrealistically inflated "supports" they enjoy because they are the focal points for the opposing factions within west central Scotland's divided society. There simply isn't enough remaining cake to go round the other clubs to retain more than a token presence of full time football without the likes of what has happened to Dunfermline, Livingston, Motherwell and Dundee. Rangers are a somwhat different case but, although not (yet?) in administration, you could also add Hearts. And there but for the grace of God...... Because it was the early stages of embracing full time football which saw Caley Thistle on the verge of administration in 1999. The hugely distorting effect of the Old Firm is a major element in Scottish football's ongoing failure to find a viable and acceptable structural model.

For your information, just before 6pm the SPL issued a statement to the effect that since they were still in discussion with broadcast partners and police, the fixture list is unlikely to be issued today. Ironically the Highland League fixtures to the end of the season, including options to cover who may or may not reach the HL Cup Final, were issued at 5pm today.

Progress indeed. I have open in front of me Ian Broadfoot's ringbound volume of match reports for the first two years 1994-96. It is at the page "Saturday 20th August 1994 - Caledonian Thistle 0 Queens Park 4. Bell's Scottish League Third Division." which was CT's first league defeat. The crowd was1500 which by the turn of the year would drop to under 1000. The CT team that day was McRitchie, Brennan, McAllister, Hercher (MacMillan), Scott, Andrew, D. MacDonald, MacKenzie, Noble, Bennett (Hastings), Robertson. Unused - Gray. One week later there was a Third Division record crowd of 3157 in Dingwall for a scoreline of Ross County 1 Caledonian Thistle 3 which included nine yellow cards and two red (Gary Campbell of County and Mike Andrew of CT.)

Do you not mean another word that sounds a little bit like "prophetic"?

Scotty, your comments have, as always, been very reasonable and there's possibly not much more I can add to them given my status as a humble freelance (ie non staff) contributor to the BBC. I don't therefore know the basis of this season's changes any better than those who heard Richard announce them on Sportsound some months ago. I don't know either what the listener figures were for the various commentaries. But do remember that the Radio Scotland/ online slice of the Saturday afternoon audience was presumably being split several ways among Open All Mics and typically four or five live commentaries, either online or on air or both, some of these only going on air to local areas (Highlands, Grampian and formerly Gretnaland). As a result, the size of audiences in relation to the costs involved may have had to be looked at. I would also add that other functions such as post match interviews, online updates and online match reports, which directly or indirectly depended on having a commentary team at games, have been maintained by other means. I would actually agree that in an era of global football the SPL, with the kind of crowds it gets, can hardly be called a "top tier" league and hence it gets relatively generous media coverage as a whole. I am also interested that you have been able to confirm that the veto of certain individual SPL clubs is the reason for the withdrawal of certain online services outwith the UK.

Scotty I'm just pointing out that I think the BBC's coverage of what you define as not a "top tier" league - possibly justifably given that attendances are frequently less than 5000 - remains pretty substantial across radio, TV and online. I am aware that there is an issue about some online services being "geoblocked" but am not familiar with the reasons for that and, for instance, whether this is at the insistence of some individual clubs.

Until this season there had been a commentary team at all SPL games, which also meant that virtually all ICT games kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday could be heard online, on air within the Highlands and Islands and sometimes across the entire Radio Scotland network. As observed, live commentaries at 3pm on Saturdays have been reduced this season to one game. That, as far as I am aware, is the only cut. However the BBC does still offer Open All Mics as an integral part of seven hours of sport coverage on a Saturday afternoon, The Results Programme on BBC 1 Scotland, online text updates, online match reports and post match interviews, online video highlights which are also broadcast on air on Sportscene, and from BBC Alba there is one game per week shown "as live" or occasionally "honest to God" live, with ICT figuring fairly prominently there. But I suppose there is a limit as to what can be done within the two quid odd a week licence fee paid by UK based BBC users......

Sorry chaps, I don't know much about the online side of things but I can confirm that Sportsound will be coming live from the Caledonian Stadium on Friday right through until 10pm with Richard Gordon, Scott Davie, John Robertson, Billy Dodds and Jim Spence and full commentary of ICT v St Johnstone. That should be 810 medium wave and I expect online as well.

Nae me anyway, I'm in Magdeburg, fecking gutted at missing the game Are we not now safely in top six slot after Hibs being beaten last night? So you won't be in the ICT Social Club with your great granddaughter tonight then will you Michael?

I don't want to take this thread off topic so probably the best way of putting this is to say that those who are unable to be among whatever the attendance is can get live commentary on BBC Radio Scotland 103.5-105FM in addition to Robbo on Open All Mics on 92-95FM.

Alex.. let me first emphasise that we are debating a theoretical as opposed to a remotely possible outcome here! But I'm not even sure that what you would describe would relegate ICT. The reason is that not only Dundee but all the other intervening clubs would also have to overtake Inverness. I am not sure whether there are enough points on the board for that to happen although it might just still be possible this time given how dreadfully far Dundee are behind everyone else. The general point I am trying to make here is that theoretical, arithmetical safety for a club quite often comes some time BEFORE the bottom club can no longer catch them because you have to have enough points left to play for so that ALL the clubs can do so.

Good to see this happening again. I suppose it is an annual lottery to choose a Saturday which fits in with fixtures. But never mind... it could be and has been worse - in 2009 the end of season ball was on the evening of Falkirk at home which saw ICT relegated! I am sure this one will go as well as previous ones, even the 2009 function which was pretty good despite the general depression! I have to say as a matter of personal preference, I always find after dinner speakers at various functions a massive turn off. OK they do often raise laughter, but usually vastly inflated by the consumption of alcohol. Far too many of them also depend far too heavily on use of the "f word" in their attempts to achieve impact - to the extent that it becomes tedious. And even in the aftermath of a modest consumption of alcohol, it is perfectly possible to wake up in the morning struggling to remember what was said, or any of the "jokes". Quite frankly I would prefer to use any hiatus between eating and dancing to speak to and have a drink with other members of the company who were not at my table. At the Caledonian Stadium that is also a much cheaper option than at the Drumossie where the eyewatering drink prices are a rip off second only to the cost of taking part in running events organised by a certain local company! For what guest speakers cost, I really don't think they come close to value for money in terms of what they contribute to the evening.

The basis on which you seem to be calculating safety from relegation (not that this has been an issue this season anyway) isn't quite right. You appear to be going on the bottom club (Dundee) no longer being able to catch ICT. However for any club to be relegated, ALL the teams below it need to be able to catch it and the point at which there are no longer enough points left for this to happen is usually earlier than a lot of people think.

Commentary from Paul Mitchell with Craig Paterson summarising on 103.5 - 105 FM.

You are a bit premature. The BBC will have an audio outside broadcast at Victoria Park so will be doing.... * Full live commentary on 103.5-105FM. * Robbo on Open All Mics on 92-95FM. * Second half TV updates and full time report on BBC 1 Scotland. * Online commentary. * Text updates. * Full time online report. So choose any number from six options!

My understanding is that Alba had a 5:30 slot when they wanted to show the game but, in view of existing commitments in Dingwall, including a lunch time kick off against Celtic on March 9th, Northern Constabulary were unable to staff the fixture at that time. As a result it reverted to 3pm with no TV.

Interesting observation since at pre season training in Montecatini, which I watched, I noticed that Alan Morgan was among the best at the 50 metre sprints Charlie gave them!

I think the original criterion specified "in the SPL"... otherwise I would have been first in the queue to suggest Vetle Andersen with Gary Farquhar and Martin Glancy not far behind him!

Something's not right though, as just the other day we were quoted as being second lowest after Perth saints, with the cabbagemen being a couple of I would now like to amend my sums for the County average attendance in an UPWARD direction since the website I got the numbers from (footballwebpages) for some reason didn't include the Aberdeen game on 3.11.12. which had 6064. That increases County's average for 12 home games in the SPL to 4128 which is now slightly above Caley Thistle's 4017. However, as I said, ICT have had one local derby and two visits of Celtic while County have had one visit of Celtic and no local derbies so far. So if you undertake the (OK theoretical) exercise of adding 2 x 6000 to County's total attandance and instead divide by 14, the like with like comparison is 4396 for County and 4017 for ICT. As I said before, I am merely performing an objective numerical exercise here whilst passing no judgment or making any interpretation. However I think it is reasonable to suggest that any football club will experience some kind of extra bounce with any new situation such as joining the SPL - as both Highland clubs have already found more than once on their way up the leagues. PS - I think I have now worked out the problem 12th man had with his earlier post using my "quotes" and it's as The Fly suggested. It seems that if you select your quotes first and then try to write your post, the system won't let you out of the "quotes" box so it's very easy actuallty to post your post as a quote from the person you are quoting and it seems that this is what has happened to 12th man. So you actually need to post first and cut quotes afterwards.

And having had that explained to me by The Fly, I am happy to accept that this is the case whilst always wanting to be scurpulous about quotes. I would also say that I find quoting and posting after it a little more difficult with the present system than i did before... but that could just be my diffiuclt relationship with computers!

12th man.... your post #46 "quotes" me as saying something which I most certainly did not say (compare this with what I actually did say in posts 44 and 45). Quotes are sacrosanct and MUST NEVER be changed or, in thie case worse still - invented. MODS - can I please ask you to remove post #46 since it has content which has apparently been deliberately corrupted. That in my book is something which needs to be taken very seriously.