DoofersDad

I don't see what the 70's has to do with this discussion. Sure football hooliganism was a lot worse then but that doesn't make the lesser level of hooliganism now OK. Cable Guy has it spot on and it is unfortunate that some of the youngsters cannot distinguish between good vocal support for your team and being threatening and/or offensive to the opposition and their supporters. You do not need to be offensive to create an atmosphere. In fact you absolutely need not to be offensive in order to create a good atmosphere. The picture of the young lad "flipping the birdie" ictfcsince94 posted is an appalling example of how the behaviour at football matches still remains at gutter level in some quarters. I absolutely agree with nopyronoparty94 that the lack of any sort of vocal support from some of our older supporters is pathetic, but what he doesn't seem to understand is that the more subdued supporters are much more likely to join in with any vocal support if the singing and accompanying behaviour is not offensive. He also seems to miss the point that offensive behaviour actually keeps a lot of potential supporters from going to games in the first place. I'm no fan of Rugby as a game but boy can we learn a lot from them about creating a proper atmosphere. Go to any of the home internationals and you will experience an electric atmosphere with both sets of supporters singing their hearts out and cheering their teams on. Not only is there an absence of being offensive to each other, there is no segregation of the fans who, as a result enjoy a lot of good humoured banter at the game, followed by a drink or ten after the game. In terms of creating a good atmosphere we are a million miles away from that. The singing of the young lads at TCS is really welcome in developing a decent atmosphere, but as soon as the exuberance gives way to abusive songs and behaviour which is or is perceived by others to be threatening, then all the good the singing does is more than undone. As for the booing of Shinnie when he went off injured, well, words fail me. Shinnie gave brilliant service to this club and gave us lots of excitement over the years. He had every right to move to a club that could pay him more and he deserves our continuing respect. Is it any wonder more people don't attend matches when we get our own so called supporters showing such disrespect to the very players who have done so much to make the club what it is today?

It's a funny old game. Last weekend whilst Celtic were impressive in thumping The Rangers, Barcelona were losing at home to newly promoted Alaves. I am sure the Celtic starting line up will have a good few changes from last night with guys coming in looking to press for a start in the next Champions league game. But IHE is spot on. If we can contain them early on and then take a chance, then it will definitely be game on. Our lads will be in their faces and it is a game Celtic would rather not be having. I think it will be a good game but Celtic have quality in depth and I do expect them to win comfortably and go on to win the league at a canter. Of course, on the day, anything can happen. As I say, it's a funny old game.

There are clearly double standards in the way the relevant authorities deal with inappropriate behaviour. There is a bit of fall out between the ugly sisters after Saturday's game with the BBC reporting as follows:- "Rangers said it was aware of "the disgust" felt by fans who "were subjected to a sickening and shameful display of outright sectarian hatred". Rangers fans group - Club 1872 - said banners which read "kill all Huns" and "know your place Hun scum" were threatening and disgusting. Supporters were also offended by two blow-up dolls - one wearing a Rangers scarf, the other an Orange sash - which were dangled by ropes from the upper tier of the stadium. Directors at the south side club said they shared the anger of their fans." Celtic have responded by saying they don't want to get involved in a tit for tat spat. Apparently no apology or condemnation of their own sectarian supporters! Notwithstanding the fact that fans of The Rangers would,of course, never resort to singing sectarian songs, and trashing a toilet block is clearly fair game, why did the stewards and the police not deal with these issues at the time? The banners and blow up dolls The Rangers fans are complaining about are clearly inappropriate and probably illegal and did not just magically appear. Why did Stewards and Police not take action there and then? If the albeit OTT high jinks of some of our young supporters is seen as fair game for stewards to come the heavy, why was no action taken at Celtic Park? If (as I have heard said before) the police do not think it safe to intervene in that kind of situation, then sanctions should be taken to limit crowd numbers so that police can readily get to where they need to be in order to uphold the law and apprehend the sectarian scum that break it. Unless the authorities concerned take their responsibilities seriously and do the job they are paid to do, this cancer will continue to affect the game we all love.

You don't see how many red dots people get. You just see the net result. As I write this you have a net reputation of zero for your post but it might be that one person have given you a green dot and someone else has given you a red dot. But I agree with the gist of what you are saying - folk tend to give far more likes than dislikes and only a few posts get a significant number of red dots.

For goodness sake. No one is disagreeing that more should be done to help the "ordinary joes". But there are 2 points you seem to miss. Firstly, unless footballers get the help they need then they very soon lose all the privileges they had and become struggling ex-footballers. They become ordinary joes as well. Secondly, more openness about mental health issues within a high profile group must be good in generating a better understanding of mental health generally. It therefore helps both the footballers and the ordinary joes. It's a win win situation.

I disagree with both the Commissioner 's options above. There is no reason why allowing folk to see who put dots of either colour forces those who disagree with a post to say why. Rather, it makes people publicly accountable - a fact which will deter the cyber bullies who currently hide behind the anonymity. To abolish voting altogether is not really an option IMO. It is important that a mechanism exists to show support for something which really strikes a chord with the community. This could just be a summary of a game or perhaps acknowledgement of something above and beyond the call of duty by someone at the club - thanks for organising travel at short notice, perhaps. whilst I personally favour having both colours and showing who used the dots, the red dots are less important. No doubt a post which deserves a few red dots will get at least one reply which shows why it was a bad post. If we can only give likes then we have the option of liking the reply.

I do think people should be able to express their disagreement without always being expected to argue the case. Some posts are simply out of order in one way or another and the number of negative marks allows people to gauge the strength of feeling without people needing to respond. But the red dotters should be identifiable so that they can be identified just as the poster who they are criticising can be. One thing that is annoying about the current system is that you just see a net reputation for a post. There is no way for anyone other than the poster to know how many positive and negative votes they got . For instance, a post could have 10 green and 10 red dots but with the current system you would not know that anyone had been bothered to like or dislike it at all. I'm not sure whether option 2 would show who expressed both likes and dislikes but if it does, it would have my vote. It would allow people to see the extent of interest in a particular post.

I think someone is missing the point here. Mental health is not something to be judgemental about. The point is that the initiative I mentioned in my original post reaches out to a group of young men who, whilst on the face of it are privileged, are actually very vulnerable. One of the lovely things about this is that if the macho world of professional football can be more open about mental health issues, then it is more likely that others will acknowledge and get support for their problems too. Indirectly this should help those who Wynthank15 thinks are more deserving.

Unfortunately he's not been picked. I can understand the reasons for the captain's decision but it does seem harsh. He is after all ranked at about 20 in the world and that should be good enough , one would have thought. Living and playing in the States would also bring advantages. Looks like he will need to comit to the European Tour if he wants to be in with a chance in two years time.

Nobody seems to have picked up on the news item about Richie Foran supporting an initiative to help players who may have mental health problems. Inverness manager supports mental health initiative for footballers http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/37225204 In this story it is really good to hear that as team captain Richie would visit players who were out with long term injuries recognising that this can be very depressing. He also talks about the importance of recognising that some unusual behaviour on or off the park can often be a symptom of a problem. We moan often enough about what players get paid these days, but it is important to recognise that it can be emotionally very difficult for these young lads. They are often living away from friends and family, they are subject to the pressures of high expections from the club and to oftenunfair criticism from the fans and media. The mental health of the players is therefore a vitally important issue and it is brilliant to see our new young manager providing some leadership here. Well done Richie!

Downside today was all the empty seats and, in particular, mine. Had to be in for a delivery which was late. Gutted to have missed the game but delighted that the lads delivered today. From the previous home games I think Givmeaccccc sums up my feelings of the way the team is playing. I get the sense that regardless of where we finish at the end of the season, games are going to be far more entertaining than last year. This is the message that needs to get out to those who don't attend regularly so that they can be persuaded to come back with the promise of being entertained whether we win or lose. If the style of play can bring in more folk then that not only brings in more cash for the club, it creates more atmosphere and support for the team.

I suggest you go back and read Scotty's helpful post again. He is the guy who runs this excellent site and if he says this is not the appropriate route to elicit a response from the club, that's good enough for me. Personally, I am not expressing any view on the change to the badge but I respect your right to feel very strongly about it and agree that you have a right to expect a response from the club regarding your concerns. What I fail to understand is why you seem unwilling to do the one thing which you can reasonably expect will get a response from the club; contact them directly. Clearly you feel others ought to feel strongly about the club's decision on the badge, and it may well be that if others knew the answers to the questions you have asked they would be more inclined to support your views on the matter. If you want others to support you on this you need to get answers to your questions and, if those answers do not satisfy you, use the information in those answers to make an argument why the rest of us should also be concerned. Do that, and I might support you at the AGM. At the moment though, my position is this:- Do I think the Board should have consulted more widely regarding the change? Yes Am I bothered that they didn't? No. If you want others to support you, the ball is firmly in your court.

That's the way to do it! There is no point waiting till the AGM. Writing directly to the club should elicit a response which can then be communicated more widely on this forum if you feel it appropriate. If anybody is not satisfied with the response then they can still take it to the AGM, in which case there can be an informed debate based on the response previously received, communicated and, no doubt,debated on this forum. Further to what others have said, I see absolutely no reason why the club would respond on this forum to the concerns raised in this thread. Apart from the fact that it is not the appropriate channel, it seems pretty clear that it is just a very small minority of people who feel strongly on the issue. People criticise the club for lack of communication but the club is actually very open with regard to personal contact. I speak from personal experience having previously had a meeting with the Chairman over concerns I had a while ago.The Chairman was remarkably open on the issue in question and pro-actively asked me my views on other matters as well. The difficulty was not getting into the chairman's office, it was getting out! Bottom line is that this forum is for having a general discussion about things. That includes having a good old moan about this and that from time to time. But if you really feel strongly about something and feel something needs done, then you need to take the bull by the horns and contact the club direct.

Mad Gav, eh! Interesting. He's a pretty decent player but it would be a risk to take him on. It's all right him picking up the ball and walking off the pitch when he's playing against us but I wouldn't want him repeating that if playing for us. A bit injury prone too. He's probably the sort of player that just needs the right manager to bring the best out of him. Foran has had a rush of blood or two to the head in the past so may be just the person to relate to Gunning and get the best out of him.

I wasn't at the game but did notice the stat on the BBC website that we had 13 attempts on goal. They may not have been very effective attempts but it does demonstrate a more positive approach. Last season there were only a handful of games where we had more attempts at goal. Against County our midfield was consistently 2nd to the ball in midfield and it sounds that the same was the case against Hearts. A midfield containing Draper, Tansey, Vigurs and Polworth really should not be out-fought in midfield by any team in this league, Get that sorted, and coupled with the more positive approach we should be creating enough chances to win a lot of games. A lack of cutting edge puts pressure on the defence so perhaps taking an early chance or two will settle the team and get us back on track. We certainly need a little more depth to the squad to provide cover and competition for places, but we should have enough quality to hold our own in this league. Foran had it right when he said he hasn't got the best out of the players yet. I just wonder how much of this is to do with a change in playing style. When Hughes came in and changed things round we changed from being a side which played with confidence to being an absolutely dire, nervy side for some while. Once players got used to the new system and what was expected of them, confidence grew and we got much more assured (if boring) performances. We now have a transition to a very different style again, and that transition is particularly challenging for the midfield who tend to control the pace of the game, and for the wing backs who have a very different role. To be effective, what is required has got to be second nature, and until it is players will appear to be hesitant. For instance, where Hughes may have looked for a midfielder to sit back off a player with the ball, keep shape and make it difficult for the opposition to play through us, Foran may want the player to pressure the guy with the ball further up the park. Not only will players be expected to do things differently, they will be finding team mates are not always where they are used to them being. Adapting to this change in style does not come overnight and is not as easy as it looks. It's a bit like driving in Europe. Yes you can drive OK on the right hand side of the road, but it takes a little while before you can drive as naturally and hesitation free as you do back home. We need to be patient. It will be worth it.

...but we've got one more cup than she has.

Who for?

When McNaughton went off, it was the slowest walk to the touchline I've ever seen. It seemed pretty obvious it was not the sort of knock you can simply run off so I wonder why he wasn't taken off on a stretcher? Apart from the fact that trying walk was obviously very painful for the poor lad, putting any weight at all on it surely risked making the injury worse.

... subject to cost.

Hmm. The tactic of not marking Boyce didn't really work, did it? Disappointing result and very definitely 2nd best. It was crap but at least it wasn't boring. Foran is clearly on a steep learning curve, but in his defence I would say that between the Arbroath and the County games we have already had about as much incident as we had in the entire season last year under Hughes. An absolutely sublime strike by Drapes for the 2nd. The player we are missing most from last season? Danny Devine.

Developing the youngsters has far more benefits than any transfer fees we might one day get for them. Over the years several youngsters have been good enough to be valuable members of the first team squad. Some, like Polworth, manage to become regular starters whilst others like Brown and Sutherland spend more time on the bench than on the pitch but are capable of doing a job if called upon. Were they not in the squad there would be a need to bring in players for cover who would only be available on higher wages. There are also the unquantifiable benefits of a youth development system in embedding the club in the wider community. The involvement of the youngsters in the club brings the club closer to the friends and families of those youngsters. It makes the community more likely to support the club. The economics of a youth development system are very hard to quantify, but what I do know is this. Stop the youth development system and you rip out the very heart and soul of the club.

I think the club has tried just about all it reasonably can to adapt to be able to compete at the top level in this very difficult market. But there may well come a time when despite the best efforts of all concerned it is simply not possible to survive at the current level. At some point we may have to face the bitter reality that spending to survive would risk bankrupting the club and the sensible adaptation is to accept that we can only survive at a lower level. Unless by some miracle the crowds increase by 50% or we get a rich benefactor, we will always be a club which is unable to hold onto players whose performances lead to offers of much more lucrative contracts elsewhere. We will survive at this level only if we continue to unearth and develop players with ability who are under-performing elsewhere, and if we can produce quality players through the youth system. That's a very tough ask because all clubs, rich and poor will also be doing the same.

With TV pouring ever more money into the game UK wide, players are demanding and getting ever more and more money. The effects filter down to our level where any extra we may receive through these channels is more than accounted for by the money players demand. We cannot compete with teams from the lower reaches of the English league financially. I would imagine, therefore, that significant sums of money have been used simply to extend contracts of existing players. And whilst I would like to see longer contracts, players will only sign those if the salary makes it worth their while. To offer players such contracts is a gamble the club cannot afford to take. The blunt economic truth is that you need to spend more just to stand still.We will do very well if we can manage to retain our top flight status in the next 2 or 3 years and unrealistic expectations simply add to the pressures.

We have had a couple of disappointing performances and results but I guess the feeling of disappointment is felt more acutely as a result of the high expectations generated by outstanding performances in the 2 previous games. It's important to keep a bit of perspective here. Regardless of whether criticism of the Board is justified (some probably is and some probably isn't) the fact remains that given the resources available, our club has been kicking above it's weight for several seasons now. We have been helped by the problems some of the biggest clubs have created for themselves by their own financial mismanagement but they are now all on their way back (or, in The Rangers case, replaced by a clone club - The Clone Rangers) and this will make the top flight more competitive again. Top six will be a major achievement in the future and just staying in the top flight represents success for a club of our size. Our situation is also affected by the managerial position. Whilst some refer to Hughes as being our most successful manager ever, the reality is that the club has gone backwards considerably under his tenure. When he took over we had a great squad playing attractive football and who were 2nd in the league. He left the club with us relieved to have narrowly escaped the relegation dog fight in a weaker league. He transformed the playing style to one which bored the pants of most fans. And he oversaw the departure of many of our better players and, despite a bigger budget, was unable to recruit players of the quality of those departing. It is now left to Foran to pick up the pieces. Would we have beaten Alloa if Hughes was still manager? No! Had Hughes still been manager we would not have been playing Alloa as I doubt we would have got out of our qualifying group. What the Dunfermline and Arbroath games demonstrated is the kind of entertaining attacking football Foran would like to deliver. What the games against Partick and Alloa demonstrated was how difficult it will to deliver that vision on a regular basis against better and more organised teams, This is going to be a long hard season. We will all have our hopes and dreams, but the reality is that not being relegated will be a decent outcome for us. No doubt as the season progresses I will express exasperation at some of the things Foran does (for instance, like others. I think Draper needs to be starting) but I think we need to trust in the Board's judgement and in their faith in Foran in giving him a long term contract. He's been left a very difficult task by the previous manager and we need to give him our full support and be realistic about what can be achieved this season.