MrCaleyjag

Ironinally in an independent Scotland, Scottish universities would have to charge English and Scottish students the same.

The other irony is that we can only offer free university education to anyone because of the taxes English people are paying to subsidise us.

(Lights blue touch paper and retires...)

Think you need to take a closer look at the GERS reports for the last few years to see who is subsidising who. It's always better to take your information and form opinion from the source instead of relying on how one or other side spins it before putting it to press.

There is also the matter of taxpayers in Scotland paying more to subsidise expensive education for future fast food retail managers.

If we must payroll the free education for universities, instead of a gap year which many take introduce a community service program where they can make a genuine difference to their communities doing whatever their chosen career path dictates.

Yngwie, sign here.

Not a fan of university education then?

Last time I looked tax payers in Scotland pay their tax to Westminster at the same rate as the English, Welsh and Northern Irish and from there Westminster decide on a budget for each countries government. If the tax went straight to Holyrood I would agree with your point but it doesn't.

Of the 16 squad players tonight that Terry picked 14 of them were in some form or another brought in by him either through transfers or through the youth ranks, of these 14 players I am sure they have been picked very carefully from hundreds of others as he feels they can bring something individually and collectively to the team.

At the moment individually it looks like the players do have enough to be in the team but unfortunately we just cannot put it together and there is not one person that isn't as down or embarressed about this result than Terry himself and he sounded very down beat in his interview, he of anyone will be feeling very let down as these are his players.

For this reason alone I know that he will get them to gell together as a team, I am not sure what attitude he should adopt as would screaming and ranting help when players are at an all time low and most are quite young or does he look to his experienced players to get the young ones through it and step up to the fore. I am in no doubt he let them know just what this performance and result means and the effects it will have however at the same time I would hope that the players put it firmly to bed and move on quick sharp and I am sure this will be his message to them.

16 months ago we beat Ayr 7v0, tonight we got beat 1v0 and by the sounds of things with not much of a reply ........................ well Tell you got your wish, you got your players in during that time and guess what it's up to you to get us out of this mess. Yes we have a lot of new players in but we should not be getting beat by Ayr Utd regardless. I have faith in you still but please please sort it out pronto.

Tade on, Morrison off .............. ach we don't need a midfield anymore

Replays or extra time?

Extra time

Oh dear (as I shake my head) Sutherland off, A Shinnie on ........ from Saturdays showing hopefully he ups his game because if not what an awful substitution that is

Alloa @ 2.30 please

Was it a penalty, was it not? Oh what a surprise Chick Young thinks it was a stick on, anyone else hate him as much as me?

0v0 HT

Reading further into your post whether the fees have been in place for years are are just being put in place is irrelevent really but you make a good point about it in highlighting it anyway in whatever form.

Really the only thing I can see the Scots being guilty of is trying to provide free education for it's own students and protect the interests of those that are a domicile of their own country. Maybe the English should be looking closer to home at their own shody education system and be asking why more and more students are wanting to come to Scotland to study in the first place. Also why can they not offer students from England a cheaper rate from those coming into England to study?

The answer is they cannot sustain it and are trying to deflect the attention from the ridiculous power they brought in allowing universities from next year to raise their fees upto £9000 a year, a fee of which nearly 2 out of 3 universities have said they will make use of for some of their courses. While they are at it and attacking the Scots maybe they should attack the Welsh for their decision to charge others more than someone residing in Wales, is this not the exact same thing except for the fact that a fee of some sort applies just on different levels.

In my opinion there is nothing racist about it, there is nothing wrong with protecting our education system and making it sustainable for the long term for all to make use of they just have a bee in their bonnet as they are not able to or choose not to provide these benefits to their own students.

Obey

I had thought about that but tbh Caleyjag wouldn't have it, the thought of Sky turning round and saying ok then fair enough sorry your leaving and football on our tv coming to a stop for a while wouldn't go down well at all. I have left quite a strong complaint with them and currently now only have the tv deal so if I decide to go back for phone/broadband when I move I will see what they say.

I'll post again when I call back to let you know what happens.

I found this on the BBC News website, posted in July 2009 showing the fees at that time:

STUDENT FEES (2009-10) England: £3,225 p.a. N. Ireland: £3,225 p.a. Scotland: free to Scots, £1,775 to other UK Wales: £1,285 to the Welsh, £3,225 to other UK Students from elsewhere in the EU pay the same as those locally Those from outside the EU pay whatever the university charges

The Scottish Parliament has always had devolved power over student finances and can therefore set their own charges as they control their own education budget and from the 2009-10 figures above shows that what has Alex is speaking about has been in force already since then. If the EU directive was not in place then I am sure that Scottish ministers would be charging those from EU countries to study here, in effect they are trying to offer free university education to students from Scottish schools as charging EU students would mean charging Scottish students.

I see no difference in the propasals Alex has highlighted from those above or are the rates changing? Really looking at the fees above the cheapest place for anyone in the UK to study is Scotland. It is cheaper to come from England and study in Scotland at the moment but with the governments changes with the fees and them being able to be risen up to £9000 a year I thnk this may change.

This is a good post but think it has been misinterpreted by Alex as the charges are currently in place, take a look at this link which highlights I think what Alex's post is about: (sorry you'll need to cut and paste it into your browser as I can't get the link to work properly)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland/-14607122

Alex if I have read your post wrong then I am sorry and apologise in advance.

Sounds to me like Laurance is in his retirement years. How about retiring your username and log in for this site and stop patronising us with your nonsense

So it was 'we' at the start of the thread, now it's 'you'.

So nobody on here sees these major problems? Only you o wise one......

Read your first post again, which definitely invites a slanging match. You slag off everything including ourselves the fans.

The problem with you, since you deigned to move up amongst us, is that you think you are doing us a favour. Don't patronise us as if we have heather coming out of our ears.

And learn something about the club's history. It's obvious in some of your posts that you haven't bothered.

The fact is ICT probably has the smallest budget in the SPL and we do what we can to stay there. There was plenty of attractive attacking football in the lower divisions. We know Scottish fitba is shyte. If fitba is a big part of your life you should have researched it before moving up.

For most of us ICT is part of our life - not a lifestyle choice.

Spot on, I couldn't have said it better myself

I haven't read any of the previous posts on the thread yet since being at the game and had time to think about it now.

Sitting at half time I couldn't believe what I had just watched, it was probably the worst Caley performance I had seen, totally disjointed, no urgency, no pressing of the ball or closing down Aberdeen at all and void of an imagination in midfield, no one stood out as performing at all but one thing for sure was that the worst player on the park was A Shinnie, he unfortunately tipified our first half performance and was sacrificed after ten mins of second half kicking off which was probably the best decision TB made all weekend.

At least in the second half we started to take control of the ball more and passed better, G Shinnie looked very good down the left wing and Tansey really stood out in the centre of the park. We showed a great deal more urgency and broke down their play as well as pressing and pressuring them more making them look shaky on the ball and good to see we pushed up more. I don't know what TB and MM said at half time but whatever it was certainly worked and if we had of got a point it would have been well earned from the second half performance alone. Sutherland looked really good when he came on and made some good runs, the sort that we need of a striker that we are desperately crying out for, I don't think TB knows yet who to play up top or linking with Foran but for sure it's not A Shinnie.

I feel sorry for Golabart at being thrown in at the deep end and was shocked when I found out he was starting line up, apart from his mistake in gifting them the second goal I thought he looked good and hopefully it won't effect his confidence, the best thing for it is to leave him in the team for Ayr.

Overall if we play like we did in the forst half for the rest of the season or start too many games like that we'll get relegated!!!! If we can get the performances like yesterdays second half then it's only a matter of time until we get a win and from there I can see our season taking off from there. Hopefully we can get a settled team that can start to gell together but there were very good signs at times yesterday.

watching sportscene the kilmarnock manager could not understand why golabert went to ground at the edge of our box anticipating a cross from aberdeen player who then took 3-4 more strides before cutting ball back for aberdeen first goal. so i would say golabert at fault for both aberdeen goals.

dont understand why butcher keeps changing middle 2 at back. any 2 from tokely,hogg, aldred would be ok if he stopped chopping and changing

get a striker/ finisher in instead

Ah watching Sportscene, that old one again, yeah it's all too easy to rely on that far too much, funny how the very first two clips of the game were the goals and nothing else. Forgive me if I tended to base my assessment on the whole game rather than just what Sportscene showed. Also would that be the same Kilmarnock manager that said the report he got from his staff claimed Caley were pretty decent in the first half, lets hope that scout picks the Killie team next week then cause he's clearly clueless.

Golabart wasn't the only one at fault for the first goal and I tend to think he went for the tackle and realising he wasn't going to get the ball opted not to bring the man down, there were others in the box that should have picked up the runner. For the second yes it was ultimately his mistake that led to the goal but why put him in that position by making a pass that was the wrong one in the first place. Lets also not forget that he hadn't even had 24hrs with the squad either.

The only thing I do agree with you on is the chopping/changing, read my other posts on here as I've said it already.

Tuffey

Piermayr Hogg Golabart G Shinnie

Ross Tansey Morrison

Hayes Doran

Sutherland

Subs: Esson, Tokely, Aldred, Tade, Foran, A Shinnie

Unchanged back 4 as they need to start building up an understanding together, Golabart starts as if he doesn't I fear he'll dwell on his error too much

Midfield would be a 5 while on the back foot and Tansey dropping into a defensive midfield roll which when we get the ball turns into a playmaker roll starting the play from side to side through Ross/Morrison who would supply either Hayes/Doran down the wings or Shane up top. Hayes and Doran would need to work hard at tracking back for this to work overall but can easily be changed to incorporate Tade or Foran should we ned to bring them on.

Shane up front on his own, IMO he deserves his chance and if TB doesn't see him worthy of a place against Ayr then why do we have him in the squad?! He would be backed up by Hayes/Doran when attacking to make it 3 up top.

Foran on the bench purely with Killie in mind, I just don't think he could play Saturday/Wednesday/Saturday, he would try but come 60-70mins into the Killie game he would be running on fumes as happened last season as he always gives his all.

**Edit: added 'He would be backed up by Hayes/Doran when attacking to make it 3 up top'.

I feel quite sorry for him tbh, of all the times I have seen him play he's looked good and most of them has been from the right hand side which is not his natural position. If he can take the ball and run with it infield or down the wing and look composed I am in no doubt he can do it through the middle. He is a big lad as well with big upper body strength which would work in his favour up top, he also never looks down at being played on the right which is a sign of a good mentality within him.

Everyone is already putting pressure on MacKay hoping he's going to be the one that can get us the goals but lets be honest he is somewhat of an unknown prospect, do we actually know if he will be able to produce the goods? With Shane I think he could and what do we really have to lose at the moment by playing him? We aren't taking our chances as much as we need and he is at the moment the most natural scorer we have.

There just seems to be something that TB either doesn't like about him or isn't sure about, I hope he starts against Ayr up front and is able to bag a goal or two or at least put in a good performance.

I agree with CapitalCaley, yesterday apart from the mistake he looked a good player certainly someone who can do a job for us and he has the height that is needed for a centre half. He was very composed on the ball and lets face it in terms of the mistake it was almost forced upon him, it should never have been passed to him in the first place, Vernon was looming and the first rule of defending is never pass across your backline when a player is about. He'll learn from it I'm sure and next time hoof it but also others should learn from it too.

He was clearly brought in for his ability to play the ball on the ground and technically he looked good with his feet, for weeks we have been saying we need someone to play the ball out from the back to feet, I believe he can be the one we need for this.

I always keep the faith and have faith in the management team and the players however there are a few things that need sorting to get things going:

- a settled team selection for one must be sorted out, yes we have injuries/suspensions but we are chopping/changing other players not just through injuries/suspensions for reasons known to the management team. If not a settled first team a settled back 4 is a must. If they are settled it brings confidence throughout the team and much more likely not to ship goals.

- we need a decision on who our main striker is going to be and fast, if it is Foran then do we play with two wingers complementing him or one behind him or one with him, whoever or whatever way it is it needs sorting soon. If TB thinks we need another striker then hopefully he'll get one.

- we need to start better, a half time bollocking should not be needed to get the team going, if it is then they should get it before the game starts.

I saw signs yesterday to suggest we will be fine but we desperately need a win by whatever means necessary.

I haven't read any of the previous posts on the thread yet since being at the game and had time to think about it now.

Sitting at half time I couldn't believe what I had just watched, it was probably the worst Caley performance I had seen, totally disjointed, no urgency, no pressing of the ball or closing down Aberdeen at all and void of an imagination in midfield, no one stood out as performing at all but one thing for sure was that the worst player on the park was A Shinnie, he unfortunately tipified our first half performance and was sacrificed after ten mins of second half kicking off which was probably the best decision TB made all weekend.

At least in the second half we started to take control of the ball more and passed better, G Shinnie looked very good down the left wing and Tansey really stood out in the centre of the park. We showed a great deal more urgency and broke down their play as well as pressing and pressuring them more making them look shaky on the ball and good to see we pushed up more. I don't know what TB and MM said at half time but whatever it was certainly worked and if we had of got a point it would have been well earned from the second half performance alone. Sutherland looked really good when he came on and made some good runs, the sort that we need of a striker that we are desperately crying out for, I don't think TB knows yet who to play up top or linking with Foran but for sure it's not A Shinnie.

I feel sorry for Golabart at being thrown in at the deep end and was shocked when I found out he was starting line up, apart from his mistake in gifting them the second goal I thought he looked good and hopefully it won't effect his confidence, the best thing for it is to leave him in the team for Ayr.

Overall if we play like we did in the forst half for the rest of the season or start too many games like that we'll get relegated!!!! If we can get the performances like yesterdays second half then it's only a matter of time until we get a win and from there I can see our season taking off from there. Hopefully we can get a settled team that can start to gell together but there were very good signs at times yesterday.

Myself and Caleyjag have managed to get ourselves in the position where we have been able to buy our first house and are therefore furiously arranging everything for our move next weekend. I thought that I would post this to help people out when it comes to possibly selecting what digital tv package to get and with who along with broadband and telephone line rental.

Up until now I have been convinced that having digital tv, broadband and line rental was the cheapest and most efficient way to have them all but after my recent discussions and problems with Sky I am not so sure. Up until two days ago I had all three with them and while we pay a fair whack each month it was actually cheaper than having all three seperate, I filled out the online moving home form 31 days in advance of the move and received the usual email then a call two days later to advise that all was ok for the engineer to visit on our selected day to fit the digi boxes in the rooms we wanted.

Great I thought but what about the phone line and broadband? Mr attitude at the other end of the phone informed me that the line rental would need to be cancelled and takes 14 days to cancel down and the broadband cancels at the same time but takes 4/5 days!! Then when we move into the new house would take a further 14 days for new line to become active, not a happy chappy was I so decided not to cancel the line rental at that time. I called them three days ago to cancel the telephone line giving them the 14 days they required and was informed the broadband takes 7 days to cancel down and also the phone number we have for the house will be lost, we need to get a new one when we move. As well as this I was informed that the engineer visit actually hadn't been arranged at all contrary to what I had been told.

Effectively we will be without broadband for nearly 3 weeks and no phone line for 2 weeks, in effect by having all three products with one company has meant we do not have all three products running up until we move. It turns out I would have been better arranging to have digital with Sky, the phone line with say BT and broadband with say Orange meaning I could arrange all three terminations seperately to coincide with the day we move out then arrange the reconnections for when we move in seperately too. All the tosh with having it with one company was nonsense and actually made it worse for us.

To think on their website they say that they recognise moving home can be very stressful so let them take the stress out of it by arranging the whole move hassle free!!! What a lot of nonsense, suffice to say MyCJ was not a happy bunny and is seriously thinking about not going back to Sky for broadband and line rental even if it is cheaper and better.

If you are expecting to move house in the future make sure you know the down times for products before you take out the deal as you may just be left in limbo for a while during your move, the very time when a telephone line and internet access is most needed what with solicitors and banks and stuff to be dealing with.

The guy on the phone three days ago even admitted it was a poor service and they were actively working to improve it, why the advertise it the way you do when in reality it actually isn't that easy. and why not make people aware of all this when they take out the deals or make it visible online for all to see on the moving home page.

It certainly is a time to be depressed about our game in European terms looking at results for the past few years like Starchief has said rather than one game, with the exception of maybe Braga as they are not a bad side, did they not beat Arsenal at home and do not bad last season in Europe.

It is a different style of play compared to the SPL and unfortunately the managers were tactically naive, Rangers had the game in the palm of their hand and should/could have been 2 or 3 up at half time, McCoist took of Naismith at start of second half put Lafferty on and went to a straight 4 in midfield, game lost Maribor took control and they were caught out. Lennon is still learning his trade and without seeing or hearing the game I can't comment but I really don't think Sion are any better than Dundee Utd and Celtic turned them over 5-1!! Hearts were just very naive and let Spurs play far too much, nothing can be drawn from that game as this is a team who were in the Champs League last year, turned over Inter Milan amongst others and got to the quarter finals.

I think had Walter Smith and Jim Jefferies been in charge of respective teams the results would have been very different, as for Celtic a man like O'Niell would have sent a team out and beat someone like Sion 4-0 easily. For the fans of those teams they have to realise their managers are learning at that level and while it is not good to watch and take

it's the level they are at.

Our game is certainly in decline in European circles and there doesn't seem to be a way out, we may now be restricted to the odd season where one team from Scotland actually does something but even then this will become very few and far between. We have been saying for decades we are getting worse and are in decline but nothing seems to be happening, our game needs a complete overhall from top to bottom.

Must have been on the radar then if we swooped this quickly after the investment came in, those in the know obviously knew it would go through and was a matter of waiting.

Good to see a defender coming in and bolstering the numbers especially given our injuries, wouldn't be shocked if we bring in a striker now as well but probably on loan.