Gregor

19 hours ago, gingerjaggy said:

Now the dust has settled I will add my thoughts. Lots of people in the mallard used the thrase we were robbed but we shot ourselves in the foot like we have done with many of the draws of we accumulated so far. Our lack of cutting edge has cost us points and Saturday was no different. In all three derbies Caley have played some great football but lack of goals has seen us pick up 2pts instead of 9 that we deserved. First game was tightest but we should have been clear in the first hour and then our home game we missed a hatful. Saturday we dominated throughout, county had chances but we had the better ones before we murdered them second half. Had that been a boxing fight then county would have thrown in the towel. But we failed to take any of our glorious chances including a wonderful chance for tom Walsh, who was exceptional without having that killer pass or strike to back it up. We had a better team in 09/10 when we came back from 12 Pts behind Dundee and we are 13 Pts behind county but realistically we are in the battle to stay in the play offs and chance our luck in that. Mixed emotions so proud of the performance but gutted by the result but we stick together and whatever will be will be in 2019 -  Happy New Year to everyone!!!!!!

The other way to look at it was if we hadn’t conceded a goal in last 5 mins then we would have left with 1 point .

Says a lot that their keeper was man of match so to keep blaming missed chances when it was tremendous saves from Fox especially the ones from Walsh and White that helped them win.

11 players on the park it’s a team game and the team lost unfortunately.

Happy New Year everyone 

4 hours ago, Satan said:

We could play with 3 or 4 strikers, what difference would it make if they can't hit the target? We create more than enough chances.

We need one striker who can score.

Not true we need two on the park at same time 

White has scored seven in seven starts should be starting all the time with one other and should be tried playing with Oakley as we haven’t started any game out of twenty five with this pairing.

What would be the harm in giving it a go 

What we need is a player who can put a decent cross int the box that gets past the first defender as far too often this doesn’t happen but look what happened when it did from Walsh corner White met it so well and scored an excellent goal which most on here seem to forget that it was a cracking finish.

Wish the fans would get behind the guy and give him the vocal support he deserves or are we going to moan if he moves and does it elsewhere.

Confidence is everything for Strikers and chopping and changing does nothing for confidence , it’s starting games that count and the bigman whilst did have some poor touches on Saturday but all in all led the line well and scored an excellent goal Also I think it was him who had the diving header that was shown in County highlights, it was an incredible save by the keeper. Some other posters have said said that it would be good for midfielders to get on the goals too but it just seems to be that its White who gets the majority  blame for a perceived lack of goals.

Some joker even said he only gets taps ins , that’s what a good number 9 does ,  as he is where the ball should be placed for the tap ins.Listened  to Pat Bonner on radio the other day and he said strikers need good balls into box . It really is time to take the White hating glasses off and give the lad support like we do Coll Donaldson as the support to Coll is fantastic but don’t we all think that if we supported White like that it may help as surely as a supporter that is what we should go to games to do rather than be critics.

20 hours ago, starchief said:

We dominate the middle because we play 5 midfielders. We have possession without penetration. Our sole outlet is White against 2 central defenders. No-one there to get knock downs or to make a late run to draw markers off White. I'd take the chance of giving up some possession and see if Austin can take that deeper role. He's got the skill but can he be badgered into giving his all? Not convinced but, without buying, no-one else can do it.

Been saying for weeks we need to play with two strikers 

All our strikers have decent goals to starts ratios but our problem we only play one of them at a time

listened to the County manager at end of game interview and he had four strikers on at end of game as in his words he needed offensive players on the park as they are more likely to get a goal, we only changed when we lost a goal at 87 mins

9 hours ago, Alan Simpson said:

Yesterday's game proved we need to bin White and Austin who's out of contract anyway get rid of Beith whos never gonna play and get a half decent striker in even on loan without a goal scorer we'll struggle to stay in the top 4 another season or 2 in the championship gonna be the death of the club!

Are you for real mate you come to the conclusion we need to bin White

Were you at the game or are you just sitting in the house making things up?

2 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

We were the better team except where it came to the all important aspect of taking our chances. A regular theme and, unless we somehow manage to secure the services of a more clinical striker in the January window, is one likely to cost us our chances of promotion.

Well White has scored 7 goals in his last 7 starts 

Dont think Ronaldo or Messi fancy Inverness 

Is it not time to cut the bigman some slack and get behind him

5 hours ago, Shorty said:

Bored now.

What u bored with

20 hours ago, Snafu said:

We were playing 4-4-2 at the start of the season and it was chronic.

Lets keep 4-4-2 in the 90's and 00's where it belongs.

Even though we didn't play 4-4-2 under either Pele or Butcher

We need attacking midfielders

 

Well just watched the Rangers game on TV and when they switched to the 90s style 442 changed the game dramatically just liked we did against Queens when going two up.

2 up top is definitely the way to go in Scottish football imo.

Muirtown Jaggie it looked a 4231 to me and it’s was great to get the win but still think we sit in and allow the opposition to dominate play at times

Granted Robbo wasn’t going to change to two up as it doesn’t seem to be his way especially after we went two goals up.

Still convinced if we were more aggressive  and play more  offensive with two strikers we would win more games convingly.

The stats for strikers as you were asking now is 

White 13 starts 8 goals (ratio 1.62 )

Austin 7 starts 4 goals ( ratio 1.75 )

Oakley 11 starts 5 goals ( ratio 2.2)

All decent stats and thought although neither striker scored today they both played well imo

Also thought Trafford did well when he came on too and put himself about well too. Ridgers once again has to be congratulated as he certainly played his part in getting the victory.

We don’t make it easy for ourselves and missing the penalty really didn’t help when we could have buried them as they had just got a man sent off and I feel Morton heads would have gone down just before half time. Walsh and Doran did well in an attacking sense but feel we need an out and out left sided player like Calder to deliver balls into box from that side of pitch .Polworth had a mixed day and I watched more closely as others have said he gives up at times and that’s exactly what happened as he was in and out of the game and his slackness cost us the goal however he created one for us too  so that was good.

Looking forward to next week now as I feel we can go there with some confidence. 

You think White and Austin who have the best stats at the club wouldn’t get it done with a partner.

thats it settled then  

1 hour ago, Caley Stan said:

We've won 4 league games. 3 of them were with 1 up front.

Your stats show that we are more likely to win against part-time teams from the leagues below.

Thanks for pointing that out Stan as I had missed one of the wins and have updated the stats accordingly.

However we also won two of those three games against Partick who at the time of us playing them have been one of the poorer teams in the league.

Fact remains we have only won 4 games out of 15  starting with 1 striker against Partick twice ,Dunfermline and Edinburgh City who are also part time.

We have won 4 games with 2 starting in only 8 games instead of 15 against Falkirk, Raith and two teams who are part time in Cowdenbeath and Cove Rangers.

Certainly think there is merit in considering trying two strikers for the next 7 games and then we could get a like for like comparison of 15 games with each system, we would only need to win 1 game out of the 7 to be an improvment in win ratios, surely thats worth taking a chance on.

its incredible when you look at the stats you see the possible answer to our problems of lack of wins staring us in the face.

We have played 23 games so far this season

The stats tell us that if we start with two strikers from the start then we give ourselves nearly 2 times more chance to win games than playing with only one striker. As you can see below we have have only won four games from fifteen starting with one up top , but have won four games out of eight when starting with two up top.Add into the mix getting a draw  at Dumfries  clawing back three goals in the last twenty minutes by going two up. It is certainly the more attacking way to play. We only lose the same % of games but have 30% less draws which sicken us all.

We started the season playing with two up for the first five games and won 4 out of 5 games only getting beat by Hearts when we played one up top.

However as they say in investment terms past performance is no guarantee of future performance, but surely trying this formation again is worth the risk.

1 hour ago, Fraz said:

Dunno why this is in a barely readable font but the statement seems fair. 

1 hour ago, Fraz said:

Dunno why this is in a barely readable font but the statement seems fair. 

Copy and paste from twitter sorry

On Saturday, footage was shared on social media, showing conduct unbefitting of Inverness Caledonian Thistle.

The club takes this matter incredibly seriously.

Following a full investigation into these events, the Club has taken appropriate disciplinary action and reminded the team of their responsibilities to supporters, the community and the authorities.

The Club will not be making any further comment on this matter. 

Hope all continues to go well for you Scotty

1 hour ago, Alan Simpson said:

Our midfields not good enough to accomadate 2 up top they'd be overrun unless the lesser seen Beith is like Pirlo eh! Besides play all our strikers at once they'd still struggle to score just shows how stats can make eventhe worst of players i.e. White who wears lead boots look half decent!

I’ve come through the conclusion that you don’t like White has he stolen your girlfriend or something  

I reckon if he scores 20 goals this season and is our top scorer you still would like him.

6 hours ago, Caley Stan said:

4-4-2 has generally meant Polly being shunted out to the right from where he struggles to impose himself. It's all very well having him in a central 2 when we're chasing a 3 goal deficit, but if we did that every week teams would play through us. Playing two holders behind him frees Polworth up to make the the forward runs from which most of our goals are created. The system already plays to his strengths, it's just that the players around him aren't good enough.

Ok so we all think we need to play Polly and to play in his most effective position which is central mid.

We all agree we need to win games and our current formation of 4231 isn’t winning  is enough games

We have 3 Strikers who have good ratios and it’s my view that we need to accommodate more strikers on the field of play to give us a greater chance of getting more goals and therefore winning games

So if Polly and one other can’t be trusted in midfield as in you words ‘teams would play through us’ we need 3 in the middle but we also need two up top so that leaves another suggestion of playing to our strengths like Livingston do and employ a 352

Of the players available we could have McCart Donaldson and Brad who could play in a 3 central combination 

Rooney who most feel is better going forward than defending on right side with Walsh on the other side 

Centre 3 from Polly Welsh Chalmers Doran and Trafford 

Up Top 2 from White Oakley and Austin

Livi play to their strengths maybe it’s time we do too, get the two strikers starting get the ball wide get the ball into the box  and give it a go, can’t keep saying we haven’t got the strikers as the stats prove otherwise . We need wins we won’t win without goals and the players to get us goals are the strikers. 

What is certainly obvious is by playing only one striker we are not winning enough games .Keeping a striker on the bench who has scored 6 goals in his last 6 starts and continue to play 5 midfielders instead of him isn’t working.

A tweak is all that’s needed two up top instead of one is the change that’s required  but we need to keep Polly in the middle as on the wing he is a man down.

We need to be bold recognise where we are and play to the strengths of the players we have just like Livingston

Not doing them much harm is it.

36 minutes ago, TheMantis said:

I'll come back to the stats later. Excellent post though. Austin playing off a big man like White or Oakley has never really been tried. I fear that Robbo knows what most of us have worked out - Polworth is our best CM by a distance, but Polworth plus A.N. Other in CM ( e.g. Trafford or Chalmers) will get overrun. So he uses 3, which means we can often dominate the possession, but do sod all with it. Maybe if we got somebody like Draper on loan we could get away with it.

Now, back to the stats. You're trying too hard in repeatedly saying that the strikers are "decent". They're not, not at the level we aspire to be anyway. Bizarrely you've quoted starts/goals rather than the other way around.

You're implying that our 3 are somehow just behind Shankland etc. The fact is there is a huge gap between the best strikers and the rest. If you take White as 8/13 = 0.62, then Shankland is 18/16 = 1.13 (league only). That's double the strike rate. If you include Cup games it's 1.26.

White is 26 and has had 10 clubs. His most significant spell by far was 2 years at Livi where he scored 21 in 69. At 3 of his other clubs he scored no goals at all. For a big man he can't jump, and his second touch is a tackle. Oakley and Austin have similar histories. George had 3 years at AFC Wimbledon where he failed to score at all. OK, only 9 appearances, but he's been loaned out to lesser clubs and failed to impress. Somebody recently, an AFCW fan, said he was surprised George had ended up at us, as he thought he wouldn't make it at English League 2 level.

I don't know if you're old enough to remember Wyness, Ritchie, Wilson, Bingham, Hislop, Xausa, Christie. All players challenging at the top of the second tier and coveted by rival clubs. And later on, Hayes, Foran, Rooney. If any of the current 3 are transferred/loaned in the window it will be to Lg 1 clubs. I realise we are where we are though.

Shankland is having an incredible season but my point is that Oakley and White have only 3 strikers ahead of them in ratio of goals to starts.

I think if asked most fans if you could have  two strikers who would score around  1 goal every 2 starts then they would be very happy, my point is we have these strikers in Oakley and White and if we play them together we may get more goals.

If White  and Oakley had started the same total number of games as Shankland and Dobbie which is 23 then given the ratio

White wouuld be on 14 goals with Oakley on 11 which is more than decent halfway through a season.

49 minutes ago, Alan Simpson said:

Don't be fooled by stats White is without a doubt a shocking striker he's not even a grafter or a target man maybe it's just me but I think he's 1 of the worst strikers wev had in recent seasons!

He has scored 99 goals in his career so i will stick by what ive said  and seen mate

but you carry on and have your own view.

Some of our players come in for abuse and are overly criticised at times namely Polworth and the strikers.

A different way to look at this we have three centre forwards who have some of the best conversion ratios in  start/goals  in the championship , Polworth does get assists and is a decent player, but so are the strikers their goals ratio to starts would back that up, but I think we would get more from Polworth and more goals if we played two up top together.One of the best games Polworth had was when we changed to 442 after being three goals down to Queens away and pulled back to draw in last twenty minutes of game.Polworth got the space in middle of park to drive forward as we played with width, stretched the game, and defenders had two forwards to contend with and space opened up.

I personally think the formation is stifling Polworth with 3 in the middle and we would get so much more goal opportunities with having two forwards on from the start.In thinking all of this i looked at the stats of our strikers compared to their peers in the Championship and looked at our midfield to front players stats in their time with the club.

In my mind 4231 is not getting us the wins we need , so surely when we have three of the best strikers in the league at least maybe the manager should try them as a pairing to get more goals.

In all competitions this season

White 13  starts 8 goals ratio of 1.62 only Shankland Dobbie and McKay have better ratios of top 25 goalscorers from Championship

Austin 7 starts 4 goals ratio of 1.75 only Shankland Dobbie  McKay and White have better ratios

Oakley 10  starts 5 goals ratio of 2 only Shankland Dobbie McKay White and Trouten have better ratios

If you take league games only Shankland Dobbie and Mckay have better ratios than both Oakley and White, thats why I get annoyed when the strikers are constantly criticised as these two guys are decent players.

We play five midfielders every week out of six and only play one forward out of 3.

Have a look at stats below which is all games started for the club and goals scored, maybe this is  why we dont score enough goals, we are not giving enough starts to the players who will get the goals by only playing 1 forward every game. Actually we dont play Austin at all now and he has marginally the best ratio of all players. I understand the strikers should have the better ratios but to play five midfielders and only one striker is not helping our quest for goals.

player             starts     goals    ratio    % chance of scoring
                
AUSTIN            16         10         1.6                       62%
WHITE              13          8         1.62                      61%
OAKLEY           39          17        2.29                     43%
WALSH            21           7           3                         33%
DORAN           148         28       5.28                      19%
WELSH            16           3        5.33                      19%
POLWORTH   147        16        9.18                      11%
CHALMERS     63         5         12.6                       8%

Trafford has started 32 games and yet to score, Vigurs on the other hand in his last spell with us  here started 106 games scoring 21 goals ratio of 5.04 which relates to 20% chance of scoring a goal when starting. I think its fair to say we miss him as he brings a bigger goal threat than all other midfielders apart from Tom Walsh.

Some people dont like stats and say you can use them to prove anything, but surely they give a little insight as to why we may be hampering our chances of scoring the goals we need to win games

Maybe this  could be the  time for the manager to at least try something different and give two lads out of three an opportunity to start some games together for the benefit of all 4 players including Polworth and the club .If we dont try we wont know if a partnership of Oakley and White would work ,Robbo hasnt  tried these two as a  starting pairing all season, maybe now is the time.

Maybe we have the answer in front of us just by tweaking things and changing formation to 442

1 minute ago, Kingsmills said:

I don't know if you've noticed but there are a large number of female deities. I accept though that your personal deity is male.

thanks  mate no problem, but I do enjoy a discussion and its good to get others pov.

57 minutes ago, davie said:

I’m probably the most lapsed catholic that I know but I have to say that I find some of the responses in this thread crap beyond belief. I had thought, for years, that sectarianism was a problem that existed in the central belt and was largely absent here. I wonder how I got this so wrong, so:

 

“Oh dear, grown men on a night out using swear words. I won't be losing any sleep over it”.

 

So is a clear statement of sectarian hate acceptable? If it’s not acceptable to sing this in the middle of Glasgow on a Saturday night, it’s not acceptable anywhere. Using the expression “F**k the Pope” is, by definition, sectarian. If you said it at a football match, you would be prosecuted under the OFBA.

 

“It's not the smartest thing that has been done, but because it has been videos and published somewhere some drunken 'humour has been deemed to be sectarian. There's worse being said at play school”

 

This is wrong in its entirety. It is clearly sectarian and the very opposite is taught in schools.

 

The deleted post by “Gadgie Coff” was gone before I could screen grab it but it was stunningly poor to the extent that it was probably criminal in and of its self. There is a problem within the Catholic Church with inappropriate sexual behaviour but the assertions in that post were inaccurate and exaggerated. Those of you who saw it will make your own minds up about that.

 

“Racism is prejudice against people for what they are, and is many levels more serious than religious bigotry”

 

Wrong. Both are equally serious in the eyes of the Law and both have been at the root of untold misery- ask people in Northern Ireland. Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry.

 

“Yes it did go over my head, so why wouldn't the same draconian exercise be undertaken when someone blasphemes the name of God or Christ rather than the Pope? who after all is a mortal man masquerading as the Vicar of Christ on earth”

 

By all means hold your view but does that really have to demean others? Masquerading implies deceit through appearance. It’s not, it’s simply a different way of expressing faith to yours.

 

“No one is defending it, as Christians we are taught to love our neighbour of whatever belief , Romanist, Muslim, Buddist but the comments of  Bdu 98196 displays all the prejudices of the Roman inquisition. If no one accepts guilt you are all guilty, all must atone, no appeals. That said, why should anyone have respect to the Pope who has usurped the place of Christ. who says to followers of the Roman sect "come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her sins and that ye receive not of her plagues" Rev18:4.Note: MY people. Roman Catholics are MY brethren and I have many RC friends whom I hope to convert to the true path before this life is done”.

 

By implication, you do not recognise Catholics as Christian and given the rest of your post I can understand why. The office of the inquisition was abolished in the 18^th Century and to be honest you simply use the kind of exceptionalist arguments that they would have used against you. I wouldn’t ask you to respect the Pope, I’d ask you to respect everyone. By the way, Christ said nothing about Catholicism. His death predated and informed it. You are chronologically wrong.

 

“Acceptance by fans of religious hate crimes -really ? Tad hysterical don't you think”

 

No, for the reasons stated above.

 

“I agree completely with that, but it sits at odds with your previous post. Irish Catholics are hated in Scotland, not because of their religious choices, but because they belong to or were descended from a large group of migrant 'others'. That's where the parallel with racism comes in”

 

Are Irish Catholics hated in Scotland? Not in my part of it. Your history is wrong. Scotland was a largely Catholic Country until the reformation in the 16^th Century. Only then did Protestantism become the dominant religion, got exported by Scots to Ulster and the rest is actual history.

 

I’m not a RC but I’m a Christian and I do understand that RCs may find the term FTP offensive but as Christians we have to turn the other cheek as Christ taught us. What annoys me is the faux outrage that goes on today as we live in a blame culture and there is always some do gooder wanting someone to be punished for minor issues. Maybe if we adopted what Jesus said when he caught a woman in adultery. He said to all the accusers who wanted her punished, He who is without sin cast the first stone. Maybe we should all think about this before we criticise”

 

 Punishment? No, all I want is people to see that this tripe is unacceptable. Full stop, so I’ll criticise.

 

Sorry about the length of this but all this thread has done is tell me that there is a broad stripe of low grade sectarianism voiced here at the football club I have supported for years, some of it by people I genuinely thought knew better. My kids were brought up Catholic and one of them now teaches in a Catholic school. I know that they would be raging if they read some of the stuff here. I am on their behalf.

 

If you want dramatics, this is my last post here. I won’t be back.

 

Can i just ask 2 questions as you quoted my post and then said in summary there is a broad stripe of low grade sectarianism voiced here

Are you accussing me of sectarianism?

What do you think should happen to the player who said the offensive words?

13 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

As I've said, while I personally think it is bizarre, I have no difficulty with others who do have faith in a supreme being whoever she may be.

I have faith in human decency and respect for others. I may not have 'brethren' who may or may not need converting to my particular way of thinking but I do have brothers and sisters all over the world whatever their religious allegiance or lack thereof. Christians do not have a monopoly on decency, morality or respect for others.

What I find bizarre is that in saying you have no difficulty with folk who have faith, you have a wee dig at God refering to him as she.

so maybe think you do have a difficulty with it actually.

However I do 100% agree with you that christians dont have monolopy in deceny morality and respect for others, we are only human afer all.

3 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

I have no objection to those who believe in some supreme being for which there is absolutely no evidence for and ample evidence against.

However what I do object to is those who have a mission to CONVERT those of us who, in their opinion, have taken the wrong path.

Religion is at the root of much of the conflict in the world today and for the last two thousand years.

If you want to worship then it is your right to do so but please don't shove that nonsense down our throats.  As for converting your Catholic 'brethren' what dangerous  arrogance 

See here is a wee thing I could find what you have said to a fellow fan , saying what he believes as nonsense,more offensive than what was said on the team bus

However I wouldn’t want you sacked for it or disciplined by your employers for it.

Im not a RC but I’m a Christian and I do understand that RCs may find the term FTP offensive but as Christians we have to turn the other cheek as Christ taught us.

What annoys me is the faux outrage that goes on today as we live in a blame culture and there is always some do gooder wanting someone to be punished for minor issues.

Maybe if we adopted what Jesus said when he caught a women in adultery 

He said to all the accusers who wanted her punished

He who is without sin cast the first stone

Maybe we should all think about this before we criticise 

Anyway Kingsmills I have no problem with you thinking I’m stupid for having a faith in God and I wish you and your family a very happy Christmas and a great new year.

2 hours ago, roarer said:

Acceptance by fans of religious hate crimes -really ? Tad hysterical don't you think ?

Have to agree the team went on a night out sang songs which some now want to deem religious hate crimes.

It appeared to me that the lads were all having a good time and it was a bonding session , whilst I think it was unwise to use the term used it certainly wasn’t religious hate. 

I’m sure these guys all see this as banter but it should be pointed out to them in future that this would be well steered clear of and also to point out to stop taking videos and posting online .

We are all getting in a froth in this country about a harmless night out while our government are banning Gingerbread men

Whole country has gone to the dogs and needs to get a grip on reality

Maybe if we played two strikers out of 3  who all have good scoring ratio at the club up top together we may have a good chance of goals 

it’s quite simple other teams play two up have a look at Ayr two up every game

Ive advocated 352 but would go with 442 also but it would mean Robbo having to choose who to leave out of team betweeen Doran Polworth Welsh and Chalmers and for some reason he wants to play them all but leave players on the bench who would actually get him goals

Most blame the strikers but in fact we have 3 decent strikers but the managers continual 4231 formation is not working and we we need to change it if we want to start winning games