Gregor

52 minutes ago, Buster said:

Robbo is the top (equal) least losing manager in the league.

Statistically speaking he's better at managing than White is at scoring.

Haha nice one Buster but not losing will not really get us anywhere , it’s wins we need.

However I’m sure you  said only a few days ago that he wasn’t making any progress and would be off in a few weeks  

AJ has moved on from Dunfermline as they make a change in management. I had a look at their league position and they are only one place behind us with two points less than ourselves. It was interesting to note that AJ has actually won more games than Robbo having a 30% win ratio whereas Robbo has only a 26% win ratio , which is second lowest in the league.

Dunfermline deemed this not good enough so could  Robbo be under pressure if he doesn’t win next couple of league games.

Whats everyone’s thoughts on this?

On 1/9/2019 at 12:29 PM, Alan Simpson said:

The amount of chances we create they should be well in to double figures our leading scorers 9 goals in all comps pretty bad bud!

I think 9 goals from 15 starts is actually pretty decent return .

On 1/9/2019 at 12:29 PM, Alan Simpson said:

The amount of chances we create they should be well in to double figures our leading scorers 9 goals in all comps pretty bad bud!

20 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

Encouraging statement but, if there is money available rather than bringing in "one or two" I would prefer it to be spent on one forward of decent quality. Our ongoing issue is a persistent failure to convert chances made.

Cant agree unless we are going to bring in Shankland Dobbie or McKay below table shows me why we should find a way to get Oakley and White starting on the park at the same tme as it would lead to more goals.

The table below is of the current top ten scorers with Oakley and Austin,  added for comparison in the championship and shows starts to goals, White and Oakley  feature well.  In starts to goals ratio  White is 4th in league,  in mins per goal Oakley is 4th in league.What is interesting is where Walsh is in the table, while he has been lauded by a lot of fans as being an integral part of our squad which I agree with btw, the three strikers all have better goal ratios than him. Walsh has started all 19 games while the others have starts of only 10,9 and 3. Players will always have more confidence when starting and also their match fitness will increase the game time that they have. We all want more wins we all want more goals and I have always backed the strikers we have but we must find a way to always have at least two on the park at the same time.Suerley its the managers job to make sure we have every chance of winning and if we cant play with 2 centre mids as we expoae ourselve he either finds a centre midfielder that can cope with playing in a two, or change formation to 352 to accomodate the strikers who will get us goals rather than accomodate the midfielders as we are doing at present. So all this talk about misfiring strikers is a smokescreen to accomodate players who are not contributing as much as they should be.

White and Oakley have started the least number of games than any of the others  but have certainly done well.

Robbo hasnt helped the situation only playing one striker and constantly moaning about missed chances as he has virtually thrown the strikers under a bus. without actually having a true reflection of how we get to winning games. he walked off the park at Dumfries shaking his head in disbelief as to how we managed to come back and score 3 goals, well we had two strikers on the pitch and we went for it but the fact of the matter that once again we had concede 2 or more goals. Austin who has been forgotten has even a better ratio than Walsh.

I honestlty think it would be a total waste of money to spend it on another striker but so many on here think our guys are rubbish when they are clearly not compared to others in same league.

So maybe we have to look at other areas that needs improving than constantly saying we need a new striker.

Game management is one area we need to improve on, not conceding 2 or more goals in a match needs addressed and if we addressed these areas we would be in a better position rather than take the easy option of blaming missed chances.

The Mantis is correct I am passionate about this as I want us to start winning games.

CHAMPIONSHIP TOP 10 SCORERS.xlsx

1 hour ago, Alan Simpson said:

Pretty sure yogi had the 2nd lowest budget whilst in the prem and had us running like a rolls Royce ! Lack of funds is an easy excuse for poor scouting and tactics look at Livi lowest budget in the Spl or Ayr lowest budget in our league ! Better with quality over quantity get rid of as much dead wood as we can i.e. White Austin Trafford Beith and get in a striker!

I think you have some sort of mystical amount of goals in your mind they should be scoring.

1 hour ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Rather sheepish reply ? 

If you are referring to my reply then I dont think so , health is far more important than football.

3 hours ago, Stirling Observer said:

I liked him. Was he not 6 goals from 12. Gregor get the stats out 

18 starts 6 goals ratio 1 goal every 3 starts  

46 minutes ago, TheMantis said:

Right Gregor. I’ve spent all day hanging about the royal infirmary and I’m still here... plus I hate posting on a phone so I’ll be brief and then I’m out 

i said I don’t get to many home games these days. I get to the away games though. 

A lot of this essay of yours is nothing to do with me, you’re just venting and you’re tarring me with the same brush as all the posters put together. I never boo players, especially not Polworth. It’s not a massive deal to me if Robbo plays two strikers but we haven’t got the players for a 4-4-2 as Polworth + A.N. Other (e.g.Trafford )would get overrun in CM. Then there’s possibly  3 at the back in a 3-5-2 which is another story. 

Your stats for Jordan seem to be heavily skewed by the hat trick against City. Apologies if not so, but it kind of proves my point. One or two posters above have made my points for me so I won’t repeat them. Anyway, this thread is just a circular argument, you obviously feel passionately about it but, as I said, I’m out. 

No problem mate hope your health is ok 

3 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

What capabilities do you see that makes you think 2 of our strikers who haven't had match time together will be the solution? Robbo sees these guys in training so clearly doesn't think they complement each other so what is it you see?

I honestly don’t think you will know until you try at times mate. I mean centre forwards have changed to centre half’s at times in careers.

Also a recent one is the guy from Hearts who was signed for Cardiff as a right back and now plays as Centre forward.

Sometimes managers have a mental block about things and others are braver and try different formations and players in different positions, one thing is sure that 4231 with same players isn’t getting us the wins that we crave.

I feel that Oakley would run into Channels and in behind the defender where White when played as a two can come a bit deeper as he did with Austin on Saturday. 

If we don’t try we won’t know is where I’m coming from. I’m sure they were tried together in a pre season game which Barry Wilson they played well together.

However we haven’t tried them in a competitive game from the start.

5 hours ago, MorayJaggie said:

Gregor as much as you love Jordan the man love is obvious but he is the 11th best striker in the championship.  As you love stats goal to mins played ratio of 5 goals in 1044 mins played which equates to 1 goal every 2.42 start. Oakley has 4 goals in 640 mins played in championship giving him a goal every 1.82 games. White has played a full 11.6 games with a 5 goal return Oakley 7.1 full games with 4 goal return. White playing a full 4.5 games more than Oakley scoring one more goal. You tell me who is the better striker in this league this season. Previous accolades at different clubs in different seasons with different players make no difference to the here and now. 

My point of quoting stats was to counter  the argument that our strikers are rubbish . I think we have 3 good strikers and would like 2 of them getting starts together it wasn’t to say which one was better as they all have similar stats,  but Austin and White have more goals and experience under their belts than Oakley.

5 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

These stats are increasingly boring. Facts are simples. We have scored only 26 goals in 19 games which is less than every team above us (excluding Morton), while we have actually only conceded 22 which is less than several teams higher in the league. Goals win games and we dont have enough.

Churning out the same stats in different formats for indivduals does little other than fail to address that Robbo has tried many player options and combinations yet has failed to find one that works. There is a clear lack of goals from other areas of the pitch - the midfield offers little and the defense aren't scoring at set pieces.

We need creativity & goals from the middle of the park - perhaps then the strikers will contribute more, they dont have the ability to create for themselves which means we need to either alter how we play to get the best out of them.

Listening to talk sport this morning and Danny Murphy was discussing Defoe going to Rangers , his comment was  get the ball to his feet and he will score goals , the same goes for most centre forward as they depend on good service.

4 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

These stats are increasingly boring. Facts are simples. We have scored only 26 goals in 19 games which is less than every team above us (excluding Morton), while we have actually only conceded 22 which is less than several teams higher in the league. Goals win games and we dont have enough.

Churning out the same stats in different formats for indivduals does little other than fail to address that Robbo has tried many player options and combinations yet has failed to find one that works. There is a clear lack of goals from other areas of the pitch - the midfield offers little and the defense aren't scoring at set pieces.

We need creativity & goals from the middle of the park - perhaps then the strikers will contribute more, they dont have the ability to create for themselves which means we need to either alter how we play to get the best out of them.

Unfortunately he has never tried White and Oakley together also he has never tried Walsh up top with any other striker either so Robbo hasn’t tried all that he could try.

2 hours ago, TheMantis said:

 

 

I’m not buying all this, you say you like debate and then you imply that people who disagree with you are sheep while giving the old Devil’s Advocate excuse  

I gave you plenty of facts and figures to debate with in these two posts but you’re not offering much to refute them  except deflection. In all seriousness, how long have you been supporting ICT? You joined the forum in March which is not a crime in itself, but if you’re going to claim any credibility then you have to be able to refer back to happier days and better players which is why most people are peed off by where we are.

I regret if big Jordan is daft enough to listen to gossip on here. I always encourage the players at games but on a forum they’re fair game.

As you have said yourself you don’t get to as many games now, yet you seem to want to criticise players without actually watching the 90 mins in the stadium. Now I understand you may have valid reasons for not being there.

You have a problem with me using the term Sheep but isn’t that like being a sheep and following other people’s opinions rather than watching the 90 mins and coming to your own opinion.

I agree with you that some are peed off because we have been at a higher level but that is a problem of fans not accepting where we actually are. Expectation sometimes can be a hindrance and clouds ones judgement of players on the field of play. The booing of Polworth when he was subbed yesterday was a disgrace . We have to accept we are playing in the Championship which is a tough league Rangers and Hibs  found that out and took 3 seasons to get back to premiership and they have far bigger resources than ourselves . Now  Dundee Utd are in their 3rd year down here yet some of our fans can’t accept its where we are.

Its clear that some fans on here don’t seem to like our strikers or think they are any good especially White who gets stick constantly.

You quoted Shankland who is having an excellent season but he plays in a team who plays with two up top , he has also been with Ayr last season in a league below getting used to playing with his team mates and being in a winning side. Also Shankland starts constantly which is a massive benefit to strikers. Shankland is proving to be more prolific than ours but that does not prove that ours are duds.

When I last checked  only 3 ( Dobbie Shankland and McKay) players have better ratios than White yet many of our fans say he is a dud when clearly the facts don’t support that particular opinion. However it may be just a preference of a type of player and White doesn’t fit the profile of some folks preference , that’s fine in my book, but some of the abuse he gets on here is incredible when you actually look at what he has achieved in only his first few months with us.

Our strikers are in and out of team as the manager chops and changes the strikers , and I feel we have started with one up top too many times so based on all of this Our three strikers have done well to have the stats they have achieved but it’s still not good enough for some fans.

I stand by my quoting of stats 

 Goals / Starts/ratio

White 9 goals /15 starts:/ 1 goal every 1.66 starts

Austin 4 goals / 7 starts / 1 goal every 1.75 starts

Oakley 5 goals /11 starts/ 1 goal every 2.2 starts 

Most clubs would be happy to have strikers who are scoring a goal every couple of games. We have two who have better ratios than that and one who is just outside of that , but the problem is we only start one of them at a time.Austin is a forgotten man for starting games yet has decent stats, we started the season playing two up and won four games out of five . 

So Mantis do you agree the stats are decent or not.?

I have no problem with yourself or others  having a different opinion to mine, but to keep on just blaming the strikers after every performance is surely not an accurate reflection of the problems of the team.

2 hours ago, Fraz said:

Are you a Russian bot paid by the ICT forwards?

I love stats and their stats are decent.

2 hours ago, TheMantis said:

 

His share? I think you need more of your stats to prove this    At 6’4” he’s usually the biggest man on the pitch. Wyness was only 5’10” and won far more headers. Big Jordan can’t jump. You must be his mate.

That old chestnut  

No mate not his mate just a guy who likes debate and I also like to look at things from different POV to be the devils advocate if you like. I don’t like being a sheep and just following other people’s opinions for the sake of it especially if I think views are so out of kilter to what I’m watching.Different POV makes people think about what they say , oh and I’m also a lover of stats because they kinda cut through the haze of opinions.

18 hours ago, MuirtownJaggy said:

What frustrates me most, is that there is not a huge deal of difference in all the Champioship teams in terms of player quality. Each team ( as results have shown) can beat each other on any given day. Our players are no better or worse than the rest of the league. Where I think we continue to become undone, is our set up and tactics. Today and last week were a good example. Played better and conspire to lose. I don’t see any management injection that changes in response to the game to grind out a win. All I see is stick with the same pedestrian tactics and hope for the best. All players can do better (some more than others) but likely they are only following a set of instructions and set prices from training. I think it’s the training and tactics that need to change !!!!!!! What do they see that we can’t ????? And vice versa ?????

Agree 100%

35 minutes ago, tm4tj said:

You are correct about only two. Does that not ask the question why only two. As a striker, White should be involved in more than two of these opportunities, his anticipation is not the smartest. Ie appears to be either him or the keeper that is going to win the ball around 2.38 into the video, unfortunately it's the keeper.

If you read through the report on here White has been given the credit he deserves for his part in the goal, but conversely he must shoulder some of the responsibility when he fails. Noticeably poor at getting off the ground in aerial challenges, slow to link sometimes, cumbersome, not a prolific finisher although he has bagged some goals, not where he should be at times.................. the list against seems longer than the list for. I'm not ridiculing White, but the evidence is fairly obvious that he is not the one. I believe Austin and Oakley are better options, but that's only my opinion and we have yet to see the best out of them due to injuries. I hope White does get the goals to give us hope, but I'm not really seeing any improvement. Again that is an observation and not a criticism. By the way, that was not an analysis, that was based on the video evidence and and what I witnessed yesterday. Sorry if it all sounds harsh, but like catchphrase, I only say what I see.

Our midfield is not backing up the strikers to the best of their ability either, Polworth as culpable as the strikers yesterday. It's left to Walsh to be a goal threat, and him not being a natural striker shows where he also missed a few, but he looks like our best option at the moment.

Our defence has seen better days when a 36 year old guy can run rings round them, mind you that's Dobbie for you. Give him half a chance and he will take it.

Well if you can’t see that White got off the ground yesterday to head a pass to Walsh Then we will just have to agree to disagree.Does  he win every High ball no he doesn’t but will win his share.

He is a good striker and his stats back that up .But why let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

You say you hope white gets the goals , he has scored 9 goals from a total of 15 starts including 5 from 10 league starts , I really think you are wanting Ronaldo  or Messi up front  

45 minutes ago, TheMantis said:

Don’t get to many home games these days, but the text updates from caley100 are usually depressing enough and reflect the general mood on here. 

Didn’t realise amid all the doom and gloom that we’ve only won once at home this season yet 4 away, which really should have been 5 last week. So the away form is pretty much title challenger stuff.

I couldn’t help comparing yesterday’s result with the win at Firhill. Walsh scored in practically the exact same minute, and after that the players were throwing their bodies in front of everything to get the 3 points, including a penalty save. Seems like the TCS, or the lack of atmosphere, or the moaning,  just sucks the life out of the players.

100% correct compare and contrast the support away from home to the home support is massive in difference.

1 hour ago, tm4tj said:

Gregor, I admire your backing of our strikers/forwards. Here's a quick run down of yesterday's game. Make what you want out of that although it would appear that 99% of our fans believe that our strikers are not doing their job correctly.

Polworth trundled straight at keeper from 12 yards, Mckay side footed well wide from 12 yards on right side , Polworth not so clear trundler from 20 yards, White 1on1 should score with a bit of composure, Walsh good header off bar & White follow up blocked, Donaldson glanced header off post & Mckay follow up off shins, Walsh excellent goal, Polworth close free kick and another effort skied, Goal, Goal, Walsh trundler18 yards, Walsh great effort but wide. End of game.

Which part of my original post was rubbish, or was it all rubbish?

I changed  it from rubbish to totally disagree so apologies from my original post

However in all of these only two opportunities featured White ,and he is the only striker , don’t think there was a one on  one for him as just checked the highlights and they wee half chances which were blocked and saved by keeper so don’t agree with a lack of composure comment.

Also when we went two up front White ,the striker ,created the goal by a well directed header to Walsh who finished with aplomb.

So in reality of all the 12 chances you quoted only 3 included White and in the only chance when he had a decent ball played to him he picked out Walsh with accuracy the other two chances were scraps. I feel your post  actually support my opinion that we need to get more decent balls to the strikers especially White who will do something with the ball as proven in last 2 games.

To constantly ridicule our top scorer is just wrong mate,  and if you have a look at his past clubs in Scotland he has been top scorer with Stirling and Livingston and is now top scorer with us , so maybe we have to create more chances for Him and not blame him for the misses of others. 

Im convinced When we play with one forward the chances are falling to non strikers who don’t have the same ability to convert .

What your analysis  points out that maybe we need to acquire a goal scoring centre midfielder and accept that  in  our  last two games  Our 2 goals were scored and created by White by decent balls into box one by Walsh and other by Tremarco.

However we cannot get away from the fact we have conceded 4 goals in these games in the latter part of each game.

So thanks for your post as hopefully it helps clarify for others where I’m coming from.

2 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

On the whole, while the tactics do need to change, I think that Messi just might have put away some of the opportunities we have created and missed this season.

Yeah but that’s the problem we have tom  compare apples with apples and our strikers are decent championship strikers when you compare them to other championship strikers.

1 hour ago, Weekend Hacker said:

I must confess yesterday left me almost as gutted as losing in Dinge  Wall.  I genuinely (naively?) believe that our players have shown themselves to be as good as any other in the league on occasion. Problem is we aren’t doing that with consistency and like many I just think tactically we are crying out for a change.  We seem so pedestrian in attack with no real urgency to get forward and in behind and most of our goals have come from a quick passing movement not the laborious slow build up we seem to favour.  I can’t remember a game where we have had a series of balls played in front for someone to run on to, our strikers seem to have the ball played mainly when they are facing away from goal - fine if they are then laying of to someone on a burst but this isn’t happening.  Other results went our way Friday/ Saturday but we didn’t capitalise and it is now going to take a big effort for the players to step up every week or we are mid table at best.  Big game v Ayr, obvs, and a “must win” again.  In terms of a squad, we must get behind the boys and support but they also have to do their bit; but that must include the coaches/ Robbo giving them the right shape and tactics.  

Spot on mate 

keep on doing the same thing expecting different result is definition of insanity.

17 hours ago, tm4tj said:

Having just gone 1-0 ahead all in my vicinity agreed that the next twenty minutes were going to be a nightmare......................

And so it proved. I know we have scored more goals than some teams, but man for man we must have the worst strikers in the Championship. How often did good opportunities turn out to be wasted opportunities through lack of application or choice. The cracks we once had are now chasms of drivel. 

Priority MUST be a decent striker. Someone like Dario Zanatta might fit the bill. Has to be better than our static striker who looks like he his running in treacle.

Totally disagree mate have a look at the other strikers in the league and look at their ratios and compare with ours , only Shankland Dobbie and McKay have better ratios of starts to goals . We have decent strikers , Why are you looking at the strikers to blame for yesterday as in your own words you said the next twenty minutes were going to be a nightmare. That is because you don’t have any faith in our defence to maintain the lead but you continue to blame the strikers who have just created and scored and excellent goal , that doesn’t make sense at all . When  we went in front after going two up front with a well worked goal , that big donkey and traffic cone as some call him , having a very good assist and a very good finish from Walsh. 

But as in many times this season we proceed to lose two goals , that is what needs looked at as we can’t keep conceding two goals and expect to win games. The spotlight needs to be put on the defence but lots of fans like yourself keep blaming White especially, which is bizarre when he has a very good scoring ratio, and talking about missed chances and Totally overlooking the fact that we concede too many goals.

Last week we lost the game and so many blamed the missed chances but forgot that the county keeper had a good few outstanding saves  so much so he got man of the match.

I think missed chances  are sitters , and how many sitters did we miss in last two games but we have conceded 4 goals in last 2!games.

Priority is to stop conceding goals especially 2 a game.

On 12/30/2018 at 5:40 PM, Alan Simpson said:

Maybe it's the scouting network whoever looks for the strikers wow I no we ain't paying mega bucks but surely they could've got better just a look at Whites record at barrow should've been enough to no he wasn't what we needed specially with Oakley been a similiar tho slightly better style of striker!

Ah you are the one quoting scoring stats now  

Happy New Year everyone