Scotty

I dont know the numbers for what he was offered or what he wanted - and in some ways I dont really want to as that is private - but I do not believe RT was 'greedy'. If he was a greedy player he would not have spent 16 years at one club.

I am in two minds about this ...... One the one hand, it is a short career and players must seek to maximise their earnings while they can. That is human nature, and we all do it although those of us who are not professional athletes may have a bit longer to amass those earnings !!! Not every ex-player will find a job coaching, managing, commentating or doing something else within the game when they are done so I have no problem with them seeking what might be regarded as a higher wage compared to 'joe public' before they themselves become 'joe public'. However, like a lot of other leagues, I think many players do actually look to England and see the ridiculous wages being paid there in the Premiership, the Championship or even the leagues below that and think they should be getting more ... and therefore ask for it. Sometimes it may be deserved, but equally sometimes they may be asking for silly money. It also doesnt help that there is such a wide gulf between Celtic, Rangers (oldco), and the rest of the teams in terms of (previous) wage levels as players can look to them too and see that as a yardstick. (PS - lets not get into the whole EBT or Rangers stuff - there are multiple threads for that). I may be going insane, but I think this is one area where Vladimir Romanov actually made sense in his statement yesterday. I dont hold with the whole "Murdoch as the devil" picture he painted, but he is telling the truth when he highlights the pots of money poured into English football by SKY compared to the loose change thrown at the SPL as if it were a beggar on the street corner .... I cant help wondering if part of the new financial regulations within Scottish football should include a salary cap like MLS ? I was no big fan of the cap when I started watching TFC in 2007 but with each passing year it seems to make more sense .... The league has a minimum salary and a maximum 'normal' salary and your total wage bill must come in under the cap amount. You can 'overpay' a maximum of three players (designated players) and in that case each one is only charged to your cap at the maximum salary as per the agreement, not their actual salary which might break the cap. The coaches then decide whether they want a few high earners and top up the squad with younger players on lower salaries or whether they keep salaries somewhere in the middle and get a team of 'decent' players .. but they cannot go over. In MLS it also helps to foster youth development as younger players earn less, and there are salary cap incentives for signing younger 'star' players who are signed as DPs compared to signing say a Beckham, Frings or Henry where the older players are charged to your salary cap at the maximum amount but a younger 'star' costs maybe half that...... Transfers are classed as 'extra' money for a team (called 'allocation dollars' over here) and although a bit complicated, the rules dictate that some of it can be used to pay money over the cap amount to players but a significant proportion (50% or more I think) has to be used for infrastructure improvements or youth development. Winning the league, the cup, or qualifying for the (concacaf) Champions League also brings in extra allocation allowances so a succesful club can get a bit of leeway to spend more. Allocation money does however 'expire' after a year or two so its not something a team can look at as a permanent increase in their cap level ..... As complicated as it sounds, it seems to work well for MLS and does level the playing field a bit more for smaller teams in the league who can end up being quite succesfull .......

Although not strictly "ICT" subject matter, and the OP posted it in the correct forum for non-ict and non-football topics, I have "used my admin powers for good" and pinned and moved it from there into ICT as that is the forum that gets the most views and hopefully more people will read it and sponsor Julie. If anyone wants to complain about that action ... please contact me by PM and not in the thread !!!

Miguel Aceval, Luis Silva and Nick Soolsma might be available !!! These were the three who were sent home from Houston after being arrested ... no word on any internal club punishment yet ! TFC played Houston last night and it was actually entertaining to watch. Because of the three players getting sent home only 4 on the bench for Toronto last night so not too many options ... Houston were league runners up last year and are always in and around the silverware come the end of the season. They had not lost a game at their new stadium this season and were shell-shocked when TFC went in with a 1-3 lead at half-time despite a couple of players playing out of position and an already shaky defence having to make do with a youngster (but a good one) and a right back as centre halfs ..... Heat, humidity and slackness meant Houston were able to come back in the second half and tie it up 3-3 right at the death, but getting a point away in Houston with a 15 man squad is actually progress !!!!!

What a twat !

yup .... you think ICT were bad in 2012 ..... its painful to watch TFC this year .... but still Canadian Champs However, where MLS is concerned its more like chumps ! Just to add to your summary, you forgot the fact that Aron Winter was sacked as headcoach a couple of weeks ago - well, officially offered a job 'upstairs' but declined - and has now been replaced by Paul Mariner who was Director of player development until then. His first game was Saturday against Kansas who are a good side. no superstars, but work very hard and for each other and do it for 90 minutes in every game .... then the team headed for Houston where they play tomorrow night and as you mentioned, 3 players - A Dutchman, A Chilean and an American were all arrested at 2:45AM outside a bar. TFC official statement was ridiculously short --- "We are aware of the charges filed against Miguel Aceval, Luis Silva and Nick Soolsma in Houston earlier today. The players are presently with the team and we continue to investigate this matter. As such, the team will not provide any further comment at this time." So Houston tomorrow ... then its a home game against Mariner's former club New England on Saturday ..... then away to Montreal in midweek and capped off by a home game against New York the following weekend. I get the feeling its going to be a long two weeks !

indeed !

last year was Shane Sutherland's home top, Gavin Morrison's training top, and Tokely's boots

I find it ironic that the potential "saviours" of Rangers over the last year have been messrs 'Green and Whyte' .... definitely agree they should be made to jump through 'hoops'. sorry could not resist it.

it is the intention, yes. I am currently still sorting out last year's draw and who will get the goodies that are being held for us (details to follow when we schedule it and get it done) and when thats over with we will look to this year's list. I also understand that some people's participation in this may be dependent on how ICT vote in the Rangers saga so likely a week or two before we post it looking for names.

told you before ......

John Calder, Jamie Duff, Barry Wilson ... and just signed Wyness ... and now this strip !!! PML

as per the stats page (and confirmed in Ian Broadfoots stats) Home Attendance Record by Division 9530 vs Aberdeen (SPL, Pittodrie, 16.10.04) 7753 vs Rangers (SPL, Tulloch Caledonian Stadium, 20.01.08) 6092 vs St Johnstone (Div 1, Caledonian Stadium, 15.5.2004) 3279 vs Livingston (Div 2, Caledonian Stadium, 27.02.99) 5525 vs Ross County (Div 3, Caledonian Stadium, 15.03.97)

Our official capacity is 7753 as we reached that for a single game Vs Rangers (oldco). 2280 sounds about right for the main stand as I remember that figure from pre all-seater days. North/South stands are somewhere between 2450-2550 each (not sure exact number) and west stand-ette is about 4-500 or so .... overall it adds up to 7753 (officially).

that was the issue .... like many other projects (not just stadiums), the projected costs were a lot lower than the actual costs turn out to be ... one day's delay costs thousands, a 'slight tweak' to a design costs tens of thousands, and thats before you even consider the inefficiencies of some contractors, genuine mistakes, or changes in the infrastructure surrounding the stadium that had nothing to do with the actual stadium build but came out of the same pot of cash .... There's been a lot of "soccer specific stadiums" built over this side of the pond in recent years and the costs are staggering !!! 13 of the 19 MLS teams now play in proper football stadiums, as opposed to community stadiums or NFL stadiums, with another team due to open a new one next year, and the costs range from $28.5m for Columbus' 20,000 seat stadium to $220m for the 25,000 seat Red Bull Arena in NY. Most (8) seem to be in the $100m and upwards range and hold between 20-30,000 fans. Toronto's 22,000 capacity BMO field was $62.5m and other than the main stand the other three are 'temporary' stands like TCS

You're probably too young to remember the funding issues when it was built. It was a modular design with the potential to fill those bits in later if required, so rather than shooting them, I would commend their vision You could of course just have left the ends off and reduced the main stand to 1700, but with the wings it takes 2200. Besides, I rather like it. It's unique!i have it on good athourity, that the roof on the main stand was originally planned to extend another 30ft toward the pitch, giving better cover from weather and creating a better atmosphere, but again, cut backs had to be made I believe you are both correct. The main stand and its roofing, was originally supposed to cover the full length but costs dictated some economies had to be made and we now have what we have ! I have also seen plans where the rest of the ground had stands that connected to the main stand. These were low profile and 'flowed' round from the main stand and seemed to integrate with them rather than just be 4 'blocks' waiting for corners to be filled in.

for those despairing that he has been playing P/T ... just remember that Dougie Imrie came to us after progressing from Juniors to SPL in a short timeline ... and he did ok for us !!! it may not be a common occurence, but its not impossible. Give the guy a chance ....

Charles Bannerman's new favourite player ...... Danny - please tell us what subject he was hoping to teach ? It will make a big difference whether CB or Mantis is his biggest fan !!!!

I like those two quotes in particular. Know nothing about the player or his ability so cant really comment on whether he will work for us or not !

Highlighted a couple of sentences ... 1st is correct, and for the second, I believe the club included Tokely in that list when they made their comment. Rossco (or people close to him) subsequently indicated via Facebook/Papers that he wasnt going back as the contract offer didnt meet his needs. I understand that comment, and I agree it is tantamount to an official statement from the player, but I dont know what - if any - conversations have taken place with the club. If the contract offer has not been officially rejected, the club cant make an official statement. The fact of the matter is that current Social Media use means that fan forums are constantly awash with news long before an official website can put out the same info. Clubs also have to be very careful about posted stories as they can be held liable in law, and also by the SPL/SFA for the content on official sites. That is one of the main reasons that CTO stopped being the official site 9 or 10 years ago !!! We were offered the chance to continue but the terms meant that we would have had to literally close down the forums or sanitise the content to the point where it was palatable to the SPL ... As over-moderated as users think they may be at times now, that would have been disastrous so we would not do that, and instead we amicably agreed to run in parallel to the official site giving fans an independent voice and not getting the club into any bother ! I know its probably not relevant in this particular situation ... but lets assume the club did put out a statement saying the offer was rejected. If the player had not done so officially, and there was no expiry date on the actual contract he was offered, then whats to stop the player taking action against the club over it? We do not know whats in those contracts, we do not know if deadlines were officially set in those contracts (or just verbalised generically), and we dont know who has spoken to who about what ..... For my own part, I would like to see Rossco playing for ICT next season and transition into an off-field role, and would hope the club considered his impact for ICT not just in the past, but also in the present in the contract offer they made. From the player's comments, it seems clear that he does not think that is the case and given the choice, I would like to see the club make an improved offer to him. I dont think it will happen, but that is what I would like to see ..... I have never met TB but I would have thought he was a 'strong' enough character to not feel threatened by almost anyone? I would also have thought that after the departure of Grant and Russell last year .... especially Grant, that he would be more than aware that kicking another club stalwart out the door this year would pretty much make most fans very critical of the coming season in terms of results ... but then again, as a few folk know, there are more personalities in the backroom team than just TB (or MM) !!! If Grant does well over the bridge next season, and Rossco is not replaced with a solid and steady defender then the manager has created a rod for his own back whereby fans will be ready to turn on him at the first sign of trouble and use Grant, Russell, and Rossco as the ammunition. Its a very risky gamble, and I hope it comes off, because even I am not a 'happy clapper' right now !!! Because Aberdeen went official about the signing, then the player denied it .... what did the club officially say about Jonny ? Not much really ! I can see that happening too. Assuming we do actually lose every player we think we will during the close season then next years team will be very different and if results are weak in the opening 1/4 of the season the pressure will be on, with the added fuel that many fans will be feeling resentful over their perceptions of the treatment of Tokely and others before him. The alternative of course is that TB has scouted out suitable replacements for those players and we unearth new gems (or rough diamonds) rather than lumps of carbon ! The contract offer seems to have been rejected via Facebook and The Sun .... the club cant really make an official statement until its been rejected to them officially.Isn't Tokely quoted in the papers as saying that he messaged Butcher to say he would not be accepting? Of course the papers could be adding that bit in or maybe he never got the text.... No Tokely is in the papers saying he contacted Butcher to say the offer wasnt good enough and Butcher texted back to say his hands were tied .... no official rejection on either side, and the club position is that RT has been given more time to decide.

The contract offer seems to have been rejected via Facebook and The Sun .... the club cant really make an official statement until its been rejected to them officially. Gutted as I am about the Tokely situation (and make no mistake, I am gutted about it) - and the blame game that is and will get played - lets all just calm down here. The club wont be issuing statements every 5 minutes about something or other, especially in response to Facebook, Twitter, or Tabloid comments or speculation or because a few forum users demand it ... and we should not be getting our knickers in a twist when they dont do it ....

If you think that's bad, a previous design for the North Stand showed that the club at one time intended to call it "The Dolphin Stand"! I think that was a mockup drawn by a fan !!!! I have the pic somewhere ..... yup, just found it. They took Gordon Gillespie's famous ICT stadium photo and drew in a stand .....

There are going to be those who say he got an offer and rejected it, and those who say he was forced out because the offer was derisory. Honest answer is that I dont know the truth so until I do (if ever), I am going to ignore that and focus on the Ross Tokely legacy and the 16 immense years of service he has given the club. To answer someone else's question, I dont think RT has a an agent or at least he didnt last time he signed a contract .. I remember him saying in an interview that he had approached Pele for advice as his mentor. I do agree there should be some lasting legacy to RT at the TCS. We will never have a player that stays as long or as loyal to the club ever again and that should be celebrated. I doubt he will get a full stand named after him, but maybe one of the hospitality suites or maybe the shower room ? (The Ross Tokely 'early bath') .... another idea, which is something Toronto FC have instigated is a "Wall of Honour" as opposed to a "Hall of Fame". When a player of significance to the club retires they put up a picture of their shirt with the players name on the back ..... like the image below. Might that be an idea for ICT? or does the "Hall of Fame" cover that ?

very disappointing news ... thats about all I can say just now !!!! With Tokely, Tansey, Tade, Tuffey, Piermayr, Proctor, & Hayes all gone or going and Gillet & Tudur-Jones still mulling over their offers there are going to be some very big shoes to fill next season, none moreso than Rossco a true legend of ICT and as noted, our sole link back to the early days. Rossco was player #41 signed by ICT and if he is not coming back (and Proctor #96 is also gone) then our longest serving player will now be Ryan Esson (#135) followed closely by Richie Foran (#143) !

I mentioned in our last blog that we would be updating the rules/terms/privacy/copyright and cookie policies that we use .... and we now have !!!! The rules, as well as our privacy and cookie policies are now posted and active and can be accessed by clicking on one of the links at the bottom right of the page. We have done away with the lengthy rule set that tried to cover every eventuality that happened on the site over the last 18 years, or may happen in the future because not only were they unwieldy and unwelcoming for new users, but they were also like a lightning rod for the tiny minority of users whose sole function on the planet seems to be a desire to create chaos or discord or to try and get one over the mods by finding something we hadnt covered ... Those guys can continue to play their games somewhere else, but the vast majority of users are not going to be subjected to a huge rule set just on their behalf. We're not playing that game anymore. The new rules are about as generic as we can make them and although we have added a few specific examples based on things that have happened on the boards and which required moderator or admin intervention over the years, we are pulling back a bit and putting the onus on users to police their own behaviour somewhat. Lets face it, most of you know what is appropriate or inappropriate in terms of the words, images or links that you post or the attitude you display. If you have to wonder whether you will get away with something you post, or the tone in which you post it then maybe you need to think again ? Thats all we are asking !!! I know some folk will read this and not bother to click on the link, so for those users, here's a list of a few specific things that will bring you to the attention of the mods. Its not the full list - read the rules for that - but just enough to fill this blog post ! 1. Personal Abuse / Agressive Behaviour: As we note in the new rules, we do have a minority of users who seem to delight in this and in making everything personal. We will continue to take a dim view of this and those who want to carry on doing it will soon find out how the new points system works. Its fine to disagree or discuss and debate the issues with someone, thats what forums are about, but you should be able to do it without making it personal or aggressive. We would also include passive aggressive behaviour in this such as posting snidey comments that denigrate someone for starting a topic you dont like. If you dont like a topic, ignore it and dont post in it rather than again making things personal .... 2. Inappropriate Posting / Swearing etc: Its a football forum with a primary demographic of male users of a certain age range. there's going to be swearing and there's going to be things that are perhaps not totally "PC". We are not going to get our underwear in a knot if someone lets the odd profanity go, or there is the odd image or link that gets close to the edge, but be aware of where that edge is. We have an audience that ranges from teenage to 80+ so bear that in mind when posting. 3. Illegal Content: There is nobody who likes to see ICT on the telly over here more than me, and yes I have partaken of 'dodgy feeds' to get that fix, but please dont post those links in open forum. Also, please try to refrain from posting copyrighted material if you dont have permission. We're not saying this to be assholes, we're saying it to protect the site from even the vaguest hint of action from various organisations or the authorities. We have developed good relations over the years with the club, with photographers, with the likes of the BBC or other media, and with people within the SPL/SFL/SFA and we still work closely with a lot of those folks ... it allows us to post things other sites may not get, or just to get verifiable info and such like. We wont allow anyone to jeopardise that. 4. Topic Hijacking: Topic Hijacking is not to be confused with going a little "off topic". We can all go a little off-topic here and there and thats to be expected and wont get you in the bad books unless you do it all the time and all over the place. Topic hijacking is where you purposely try to bring the topic around to your own different and unrelated agenda by changing the topic entirely rather than drifting into off topic territory ... and is usually quite recognisable as it is done on multiple threads if the poster feels strongly enough about a subject or wants to get a topic across. This is tantamount to bully boy tactics and wont be allowed. You want a topic on your subject, then start its own one ... if its of concern or interest to site users it will gather its own momentum. So thats my personal top 4 .... like I said, there are a few more in the actual rules, but its basically all just common sense stuff ..... With regards to the privacy policy, we didnt change anything there other than making sure you could get to it from the link at the bottom of the page, and adding an additional portion to the end detailing the cookie policy. The next post in this blog will be details of our re-vamped Verbal/Yellow Card/Red Card warning points system, but this will probably be next week now as the mods are still going over the finer points of it ... we want it to be fair, transparent and consistent and I think it will be ...