Scotty

No-one has officially said anything for months .... but the signs are there, especially when you step back and view all the recent events then have a wee chat with a few folk who are, how shall we say, a little closer to the action. I will concede however that in this kind of scenario, small pieces of information from disparate sources do sometimes equate to 2+2=5 Our playing budget has always been tight, but it seems to be tighter than normal now. I have no doubts that Darren and his team are trying to bring in revenue and it must be a lot harder now we are back in the 1st as its not so attractive without TV coverage. At the end of the day, putting all opinions aside, all the rumours could be quoshed if people who have the full facts just spoke up. Why will they not do this?

I do have a loud voice but even I would struggle to make it heard from 3600 miles away from the TCS ! Wasnt getting at you CaleyD. You have done far more investigating of the spiderweb of companies involved, just making my point that at the time there was no other real options as far as we were led to believe. What happened afterwards has been detailed by you on numerous occasions and does not sit well. At the end of the day, I would just like those that run our club to be more open ... open to talk, open to discussion, open to investment, and open to ideas. There are 6 or 7 people making decisions and coming up with ideas ... If they expanded that group in terms of who could be heard or even listened to, (rather than expanding the size of the actual board which I am not advocating) then maybe, just maybe, a few gems of ideas or different ways of looking at things would be found.

just a little bump to this topic as its coming up soon

I am kind of with you on this one .... David Sutherland / Tullochs have certainly faced a lot of criticism in the recent past due to the change in our circumstances (relegation / financial worries etc). Is it deserved? Is it part of an evil plot? are we putting 2+2 together and making 5? or are we all just paranoid individuals with a larger sense of entitlement than we should have? These questions and more make for a lively debate anytime the subject comes up. For my own part, I have to say that I do respect David Sutherland for all he has done for ICT in the past. I also respect virtually all of the businessmen or football men (especially Jimmy F) who have - over the years - been a part of bringing their varying levels of business acumen or administrative skills to the running of ICT. There are a couple who I feel were erroneous appointments but they didnt last long in the general scheme of things. David Sutherland brought us back from the brink in the early part of our existence when we were sinking in debt from the cost of building the stadium and access road. I know CaleyD has opined in extensive fashion about the magic tricks, or perhaps illusions is a better term, that saw the debt disappear, along with the stadium but I still firmly believe that without this action we would not have a club right now, or at best we might be propping up the 3rd like Elgin. Does it make it right? Perhaps not, but at the time it seemed like the best of very few options. At that time Sutherland also did a lot of things quietly that most never knew about, whether it was supplying furniture to the club, reducing the outgoings by transferring some costs to Tullochs, getting Tulloch Group tradesmen to do work around the stadium for lower than normal rates, or even supplying staff who were on the Tulloch payroll and not the ICT one. None of this was shouted about but it happened even if I am a bit hazy on the full details. Fast forward a few years and after reaching the highs of the SPL, we felt our first real low point with relegation. Until then the ICT story had been one of constant progression with very little setback. However, it now appears we are once again on the brink. We dont know the full details and the board are staying very silent on the matter (as is the norm these days unfortunately) but I dont think this can all be laid at Sutherland's door. We cannot expect or demand that he throw money into the club. We can hope he does but that has been his choice not his obligation when he has done it in the past. Sometimes he got nothing out of it, sometimes he got his payment in terms of positive PR for Tullochs or in advertising presence (Tulloch Caledonian Stadium mentioned on TV almost every week when we were in the SPL). He probably sold a few more houses before the recession hit on the back of this positive PR so he certainly got "paid" one way or another. I would like to see him (and our board) be a little more open about our problems and how they hope to address them. Keeping a secret at the TCS is like trying to store water in a sieve ... it just doesnt happen and everything trickles out in the end so why do the ostrich act again and hope it all goes away and those nasty folks on the interweb start talking about other things. I would also like to see a long term plan for the club. We achieved the "road to premier league football" (or whatever it was named), now we need another plan similar to that one which details how they hope to get out of the malaise we are in now and back to where we were. If its going to take 2 or 3 years to recover from relegation (optimistic I know) then say so ... dont give us the bull that money is in place (or will be if needed) for the manager to make the best effort possible to bounce back at the first attempt and then barely 4 months later fail to actually admit we are skint and cannot even afford a nominal sum to keep a player the manager wants on loan until the end of the season. Personally, I would say that the existence of a long term plan should also seek to put some of the conspiracy theories to rest. I have heard them all, and have known of the local plan for the Allanfearn to A9 at Kessock Bridge leisure/entertainment corridor for many years. One of the first parts is already in operation (the new marina) and the original plan called for hotels and other leisure and sporting facilities along that corridor with the TCS at the very heart of it. This does make the land very valuable but it should also make ICT and the stadium a very attractive place to invest. I dont really care who owns the land (or more correctly the lease on the land) or indeed the stadium. I dont begrudge others making a profit due to past benevolence (or some might say astute investing) ... My only caveat is that when doing so, no harm is done to ICT and if possible that the club shares in some of the benefits of any development. Anything else is unacceptable. At the moment, the very clear perspective is that ICT is going backwards and some would even argue "being run-down" ... this is also not acceptable. We do need to cut our cloth to suit but at the very least the board should be open and honest with us so we can work together and get through this ... if that is the aim? Going back to investment, I would definitely say we need some and should look at how Dundee or Partick have done it. Dundee have found themselves in far worse situations than us over the last few years but now they do appear to have their act together, have brought in new investors who do want to move the club forward and barring a complete meltdown, they have to be favourites for the title. Partick had to drop to Div2 before they were reborn but they also look pretty solid now. We need to do similar. We have millions of unissued shares gathering dust and perhaps our larger shareholders have to bite the bullet, encourage investment in the club and allow others to have at least a bit of a say for that investment. Investment may dilute the share percentage owned by most but it may also allow us to begin bouncing back ....... and that is what matters most. (rant over)

a low budget one I presume ?

Its not a rumour so not in the rumour mill, but I noticed on the SFL website that he is hoping to get a team in the SFL ..... thoughts ? http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/news...amp;newsid=3210 Former Kilmarnock, Norwich and Scotland midfielder 36-year-old Gary Holt is looking to move back to Scotland after having been released by Wycombe Wanderers. Holt said, ?I am still fit and want to return home with the ideal role in my career just now being a player/coach one.? If you would like to contact Gary please e-mail [email protected]

Another couple of Dingwall inventions The Mixer Tap The open top limo

in the past they have been told to contact the club to do so. Not sure if it is the case any more but when they were made available as part of the share issue, 250 shares @ ?1 each was the minimum purchase block

Not sure that we actually pay for them to come over. Most trialists pay their own way. 1. From the clubs' official websites Airdrie - No DoF, all 4 directors named Ballantyne but they do have a Fans Rep on the board Ayr - No DoF, 7 directors, 3 honorary Presidents Dundee - No Office Bearers listed Dunfermline - 12 Directors including a Director of Football (Jim Leishman) ICT - 6 directors including Grassa who is DoF and Vice-Chairman Morton - No DoF, 5 directors, 2 Honorary Vice Presidents (one of whom is Arthur Montford !!) Partick - No DoF, 8 directors, 1 Honorary President, 2 Honary V-Presidents, 1 Fan Rep QOS - No Office Bearers listed Raith - No DoF, 8 directors including a fans rep. County - No Office Bearers listed but they do show DoF (George Adams) in the contact page [i also found it funny that Raith's ClubGuide pages are still using a format (complete with red/blue images completely ripped off from the old Sportnetwork ClubGuide we created about 10 years ago :022:] 2. I wont argue the perception of crony-ism in our ranks but I would argue the investment point. Most of our directors are running their own businesses first and foremost and ICT is not their main business. Should they be using funds from their own businesses or their own personal money to prop up ICT? thats a big debate. David Sutherland is maligned quite frequently but he has put a lot of money into the club over the years without much return other than being viewed as the top dog who has the ultimate say in how ICT is run. However much we would like to think so, none of our board are rich enough to be a "sugar daddy" to ICT to the level we would like but I do think they could reduce the pressure on themselves if they could see their way to relinquishing at least some of the power they hold so that new investors could be encouraged to come in and make a positive contribution to ICT both in terms of finances and ideas. No. It has certainly 'drifted' but not the most off-topic ever !!! However, rather than back-seat moderate, just hit the report button and the mods will review it and if required split the topic in two or move some of the posts to another topic that is closer to the subject. When you hit the report button, all mods can see this report as a new posting in the mod area and will discuss it and either agree or disagree with you ... if you just make a back-seat comment on a thread (any thread), it may be missed as not everyone reads all threads !

ok, having read through this thread again, I am making an executive decision and moving it to non-ICT. There is very little - if any - 'rumour' in this thread, and as per the disclaimer/advice at the top of the rumour mill forum we will move "wishlists" to the non-ICT forum as wishlists are about players who are not on our radar even though some of us might like them to be.

I dont think that is the thinking but if it is it is a very dangerous tactic !!! I am not sure of current contract dates but will take the number "4" quoted earlier as how many players in our squad are not free to talk to other clubs RIGHT NOW as it sounds reasonably accurate .... The other 20+ players in our squad have personal lives, families, mortgages etc to consider so what do they do? Is it fair on them to say, wait until May, June, July or whatever to find out if you still have a job in August? If it were me, I know what I would do and that would be to tell my agent to start looking around pronto as my family and personal wellbeing are far more important than that of my employer..... Conversely, if my employer were to say, "look, here is the best offer we can make you right now" and it was a first division salary (with win bonuses) and a promotion wage rise clause of 'X'% then I know I would seriously consider it and then work my bo*****s off to try and gain promotion so I could get that wage rise ! Indeed, and I believe this was once the case. Those who took us from the 3rd division to the SPL (all of them) are to be applauded for what they did in the past ... but that is in the past. We are in the here and now and as far as I can see we are in some extremely soapy bubble financially and there is zero in terms of positive signs coming from our club and even less by way of communication ...... We have laid off a lot of staff, a few others have left because of things going on behind the scenes, we are told there is money set aside to pay off Niculae yet we drag it on and on and then offer 35K, we are told that we could secure Bully for "a small fee" yet cant get that done .... need I go on !!! As for investment .... Other clubs like County and Dundee have ADVERTISED for investors and sold shares to them ... we have several million outstanding unissued shares available ....... join the dots !!!

I dont really have a problem with Butcher's signings, some have worked, some havent (yet?) and some parts of the squad - both good and perhaps not so good - he obviously inherited ... I pretty much agree with your assessment especially about the "working in more difficult circumstances" part. My growing concern right now is the often repeated phrase that "we dont know what division we will be in next season" as an excuse to justify the lack of contract offers to almost our entire squad. It just doesnt wash and if it is not sorted out before too long we may go into next season as favourites ....... but this time, favourites for the drop.

the last few posts are extremely scary !!! At the end of the day, players have families to consider, mortgages to pay etc etc etc and if our club cannot offer them any semblance of job security for another year or 2 years then we simply cannot moan and groan at ANY player when they choose to sign a pre-contract with any other team. It amazes me that we are expected to believe the bull*** excuse that "we do not know what league we will be in next season" when County are also in the same boat yet have now got basically their whole first team squad signed up on extensions. Note to the board - just in case you havent looked at the league table lately .... Although we are all eternal optimists and wont quit believing until its mathematically impossible, it is highly unlikely that we are going to win this division this season. There are so many rumours surrounding our perilous financial state, and if even half of them are true, it cannot fail to affect the morale and team spirit that is required to grind out results and build a winning run, so unless you are fearing we are going to drop to Div2 then you have to plan for Div1 next season and get some of these players signed up or at the very least, if you cant make players "an offer they cant refuse" at least make them one they can consider. To do anything else is nonsensical and a dereliction of the duties you were elected by the shareholders of this club to do. If you allow a mass exodus at the end of this season by not acting or sitting idly by while others do not act then you should consider your positions untenable before a groundswell movement of small shareholders calling for a vote of no confidence in the board begins .... which I believe it will if this apparent slide in our fortunes continues.

The one part of your equation that you seem to have overlooked is that their league season starts again in March. The current deal - which is similar to the Landon Donovan or David Beckham deals at Everton and Milan respectively - sees the player with us whilst his normal team are not playing and sees his contract (with us) end during one of the European transfer windows so he can return to his club. If we were to keep Nauris (like Milan did with Beckham last year) he would not be eligible to play for them until after the end of our season and they would have to sign another player to replace him or to have as cover. In that scenario, it seems reasonable for them to ask for a fee. The question we should be asking is about how much the fee they asked for was? (because it has already been described as small by TB) and if the manager wants to keep him (which he seems to)why we dont seem to be able to raise it? ... that is more worrying.

The inability of the club's board to communicate with the management, the players, the staff and of course least of all, the supporters is not only unacceptable - it is an obscenity. you forgot to mention shareholders (with the exception of one of them !)

indeed, top 6 in action against each other and realistically with the right combination of results it could keep the race open ..... Saturday, 30 January 2010 1st V 2nd: Dundee v Ross County 6th V 3rd: Dunfermline v Queen of South 5th V 4th: Inverness CT v Partick Thistle

man, it feels like such an anti-climax when you have no commentary or updates at all ..... the score was up on sky sports ticker before it was on radio scotland ..... the price of not being one of the featured games I suppose !

Rooney (43 pen)

Lee Cox booked Hibs 3-0 Hamilton - Alan Preston says its the best 30 minutes of footy he has seen in the SPL this season.

I don't think it's Daisy!! you are right, just looked at their website and its a different Davie Ross (who scored just a minute ago) but its still a bit of a old-boys reunion (and Stevie Hislop playing for the other side) :022:

QOS 0-0 Dundee ....... Hutton just saved a Harkins penalty in 3 minutes.

just looking at the Peterhead starting lineup for today ..... Bobby Mann, Barry Wilson, Martin Bavidge & Daisy Ross ... a blast from the past there !

.style2 {text-align: center;}.style6 {border: 1px solid #FFFF99;text-align: center;}.style8 {text-align: center;border-style: solid;border-width: 0;}.style10 {color: #FFFF00}.style12 {font-size: 18pt;font-weight: bold;} THE MATCH Airdrie Utd -V- Inverness CT PREVIEW Excelsior Stadium, Airdrie 3:00 PM ...follow us on Twitter @ http://twitter.com/ICTOnline ...discuss it during the game in the CHATROOM Live Match Coverage AUDIO: BBC Open All Mics (browser) BBC Open All Mics (Real Player or Windows Media Player) Moray Firth Radio (browser) [uK/VPN ONLY] TEXT UPDATES: BBC Sportbox SKY TEAM LINEUPS

I agree with you on both points ..... unfortunately.

to answer you both ..... http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.a...1572238?UserKey On Mitchell: "CALEY Thistle aim to finalise a loan extension deal for defender Nauris Bulvitis today after dropping their interest in trialist Ashley Mitchell. Mitchell, 19, formerly of Reading, Aldershot and Basingstoke, failed to impress manager Terry Butcher". On Bulvitus: "Tranzits Ventspils, who finished third bottom of the Latvian Premier League last season, hold the registration of the player and want a fee if he is to remain in Scotland. If a deal cannot be brokered Bulvitis will return home on Monday but Butcher wants to resolve the issue before Caley Jags travel south to play Airdrie United in the First Division tomorrow. He said: ?We are speaking to Nauris?s club......Saturday could be his last game but we are hoping it is not. He is very keen to stay. The Latvian season starts in March. They are not playing at the moment but they have to bring in someone else to fill his position. They would have to pay for someone to come in. It is not a great deal of money they want but we are on a tight budget." On "Plan B": "Ashley Mitchell won?t be taken on and it might be a loan deal we are looking at now. I have one or two possibilities as we don?t want to leave ourselves short in defence. Stuart Golabek has suffered a recurrence of his hamstring problem and we had to move Ross Tokely to left back against Motherwell. Lionel Djebi-Zadi was suspended but will be back to face Airdrie."