CaleyD

Possible ID-Ten-T error....seems to be working ok now.

Whether you agree with Burley or not doesn't matter as his idea would never see the light of day. He's talking about a setup which involves kicking out 6 teams and there's no way any of the Div 3 clubs would vote to see that put through. It's for the very same reasons that we won't see a 16/18/20 team top league (my preference).....because there's SPL teams who will not vote to get rid of (the chance of) that extra home fixture against Celtic We can stamp our feet about not liking the current proposals all we like, but nobody has come up with an alternative which would be acceptable to the majority of clubs...or in the SPL's case 11 of the 12...and that is the sad reality of where Scottish Football finds itself at this moment in time. The only way to break that deadlock is to implement what is being proposed because if it's rejected then Scottish Football is going nowhere other than into continued decline for the foreseeable future. This is not only about getting a new league structure, it's about getting rid of the stranglehold the minority have on the way the game is run. With these proposals come a whole new setup and levelling of the playing field on the voting/power front. No longer will change/progress be totally stifled by the need for 11/1 majorities, so if the 12-12-18 isn't working then change can be agreed and implemented without all the political nonsense and BS we are witnessing at present. Those who think Chuckles Green is in any way concerned about being in the third tier next season should it go through are being distracted by all his bluster and bravado...the reason Green does not like the proposals is because it removes the future power Rangers would yield if/when they return to the top tier, the power they lost when they were dumped down to where they are now. The proposals might not be what we hoped for, but they are a step in the right direction for Scottish Football. If not, immediately, on the playing/product front...them most certainly from the political setup and balance front. Until that is changed then we have no chance, ever, of getting the game to where the majority of us want to see it.

Who would I get to kick about?

That can't happen so long as the current SPL rule is in place.

Well known that I could start an argument in an empty room, but this is really stretching it...!!!

As I understand it, there were other issues with those leagues....can't be ersed going to check for certain, but I believe at least one of them had a 2 point win system and one of them had some convoluted formula so that teams in middle league kept a proportion of points at the split. Not saying we should totally ignore what happened with these leagues, but need to be careful of viewing them as a direct comparison.

Alex made a funny

I agree with this. I know a few Junior sides that feel making the step up will ruin them. The best junior side from the West is Auchinleck Talbot, could you imagine them having to travel to Elgin and Peterhead every other saturday. A lot of the fans from the Juniors and EOS,SOS leagues would like the option to deny promotion, I'm not sure how the highland league are taking this but they do not feel making the step up is worth it at this moment. This could be a problem and would make a mockery of the set up in suggestion. The lower 18 should be regionalised into two leagues of 10, automatically promoting two non league sides to make up the difference geographically. I won't name names as I'm saying this from memory and don't want to inadvertently misquote anyone, but I've talked to 3 managers/ex-managers from lower league & Highland League who have made the same point as you. There's a good few clubs out there who are fairly happy with where they are at because they have a setup which works and stretching to compete at higher level would destroy them. What they are/were hoping to get from reconstruction was a regional setup which would, as you say, increase the number of local games (derby matches) and reduce travelling because those are the games which draw the crowds and bring in the money needed to operate. Personally I get a little fed up with the constant attempts to "fix things from the top down" in Scottish Football and just as much, if not more, attention needs to be given to the lower, junior, amateur etc leagues so that things are being fixed from the bottom up and so that we have a strong product down there in which to feed both players and interest in the game to the upper leagues....and let's not forget the need for home grown talent for the National squad!!! There might not be enough money in the game to filter much more down to that level, but there's things that can be done to save these clubs money and give them the opportunity to grow themselves....this is the ideal chance to put some of these things into place.

They're trying to push this through for next season. Alex.

But you're only guaranteed one home derby...so no change in that regard. Alex has given the figures....this year is also, to date, higher. The biggest "gap" between the two leagues is a financial one and this is being addressed under the new setup which, as I understand it, will see an additional £1 Million (minimum) being filtered down in order to address the situation. The new financial model, again as I understand it, will also go some way towards levelling out the distribution of funds with the top two places getting less and each position below that getting the same, or more, than they get at present....this goes all the way down through all 24 places in the top tiers.

With the current split you are not guaranteed your derbies either and as it's a 50/50 split with 6 teams in each you are even less likely to get them than you are with the new setup where you would keep two thirds of the top tier intact. Why is that any different from what we have at the moment? You buy your season ticket without guarantee of 4 games against any team. Personally, whilst I would be disappointed to see us in the bottom 4 come the split, I'd actually be looking forward to a second half of the season against some new opposition and a chance to visit some different grounds. I'm also not so sure the drop in crowds argument holds much water....you're team are effectively starting afresh and pushing for promotion back to the top tier for the new season. A scenario that is far more likely to get fans out supporting their team than the many meaningless bottom 6 clashes that we have at present. I've never agreed with the standpoint that there's a huge gulf between top half of Div 1 and bottom half of the SPL, so I think games will be far more competitive than you give credit for. What's more, because the split is due to come at the start of January, teams will have the transfer window in which to make preparations for the remainder of the season as they'll know where and who they will be playing against. A situation that doesn't exist at present and one which will allow the middle tier to become even more competitive and exciting.

That's pretty much where I am at in my thoughts, DoofersDad. It's not my preferred choice of setup, but I've resigned myself to the fact that we're not going to get a 16/18/20 team top tier....and although I don't have all the information to hand, I can kinda see why moving straight from what we have to that would generate financial issues which rarely get a mention when the issue is being discussed by fans. As I've said elsewhere...the status quo is not working and everyone wants rid. For that reason I see the new proposal as progress, because the only workable alternative from what I can gather is going back to a 10 team top league. The bit that worries me most about the proposals is the 18 team third tier which is going to generate a shed load of travel for smaller teams....and the expense that comes with that for clubs and fans. They'd be better inviting in another two teams and splitting that into two regional leagues of 10.

No, what I am saying is that people cannot establish an educated opinion without communication/marketing.

There's a lot of misinformation and questions doing the rounds, which means people can't really make a properly informed/educated decision for themselves. Those championing the new setup really do need to get their act together and start communicating/marketing the whole thing a lot better if they want to avoid a situation where people will give up on the idea before it's even had a chance to demonstrate for itself whether it's good or bad.

SFL proposal was a non starter as a 16 team league only gives you 30 games....clubs could not afford to lose revenue from 4 home games a season.

Kant

How do they determine the winners of the second tier if the top four play off with the bottom four of first tier? Obviously it's the second tier from the 8-8-8 as that is how the season ends.

From the above article..... Great gesture by our Chairman don't you think!!!

At roughly £120 each (fitted) they'd be mugs to spend money installing them....what clubs need to do (since ultimately it's clubs who make decisions on SPL policy) is stop paying lip service to this nonsense and just let people stand....it really is that easy!!!

There's already a number of threads on this subject, but I'll give my tuppence worth again..... Stadium law/legislation in Scotland does not state that a person must sit....you can happily stand at any event in any stadium in this country other than an SPL match because "you must sit" is an SPL directive. By simply leaving Health and Safety issues to those charged with implementing it, then people could stand at SPL games without issue.

There's a very good chance Rob stole it from someone who stole it from CTO on Facebook....although, in fairness, I stole it from someone on Twitter an put in on there!!!

Very much "at least"....I'd imagine it was maybe more like a multiple of 4 or 5 times given that they were saying it was the best financial offer they (Barnsley) had ever made to any manager.

Or ICT 4 v 0 Ross County