CaleyD

I'd keep a look out for it being available around the 8th February 2010. Don't have any more information other than that at the moment.

Next year.

The survey is now closed. Thank you to all those who took the time to complete it.

The referee clearly made the wrong call on allowing the goal to stand, but you have to admit that there's a little poetic justice in the fact it was thrown by a Liverpool fan and it cost his own team. Poor lad will cowering in a corner somewhere afraid to show his face ;)

We're heading a bit off topic here, can we start to direct things back towards the original discussion.

Limo

My fear is that the current stance is being taken because we're already in a position where paying could sink us. So it could very well be a case of "nothing to lose" by risking an appeal.

May be useful to some travelling to the Ayr game this weekend..... NEWS RELEASE NEWS RELEASE NEWS RELEASE M8: KINGSTON BRIDGE TO PLANTATION FOOTBALL FANS URGED TO CONSIDER TRAVEL PLANS Football fans travelling to watch Rangers v Hibernian this weekend (Saturday 24 October) are urged to leave early for the match at Ibrox stadium as major roadworks resume on the M8 motorway this weekend. Approximately 45,000 fans are expected to descend on Govan and a very large number of these will require to negotiate the works to get there. Essential maintenance works to resurface a one mile section of the M8 kicked off last weekend (Friday 16 October) between Kingston Bridge and Plantation. The ?1.15m project involves major traffic management restrictions each weekend and every night overnight (10pm to 6am) until mid November. Two lanes in each direction will remain open in each direction at all times throughout the works on the busiest section of motorway in Scotland. Maximum delays during last weekend which was the first weekend of the job were in the region of 40 minutes therefore Amey is appealing to football fans, particularly those travelling from Edinburgh and the East to plan ahead. This section of the M8 is used by 130,000 vehicles every day and the east and westbound carriageways have become worn over time. Amey, working on behalf of Transport Scotland, is resurfacing this stretch of the network to ensure it operates safely for years to come. The work is deliberately programmed for weekends and overnights only, which are generally quieter on the network, but delays are unavoidable. Drivers should observe the 40mph speed limit to ensure the safety of both drivers and the operational staff on-site during the works. Road users can keep up to date with the progress of the works by following Amey on twitter www.twitter.com/AmeySouthWest allowing them to make informed decisions about their journey planning. Colin Mackenzie, unit manager for Amey who have designed and will manage the project said: "We take full consideration of events taking place when programming works, however sometimes it is unavoidable that our works coincide with the likes of football matches. We liaise with the police, the clubs themselves, and the media to help get the message to fans so that they don't miss the start of the match. "Football fans should take the works into consideration when planning their journey to get to the game." A spokesman for Rangers football club said: "Fans attending Saturday afternoons match against Hibernian should plan their route well in advance as serious congestion is expected. They should also leave plenty of extra time to ensure that they get through the roadworks and get parked and into their seat in the stadium in time for kick off." Chief Inspector Stewart Carle from Strathclyde Police said: "The Road Policing Department will have additional patrols on duty to deal quickly with any breakdowns or crashes that occur on the motorway, but we urge motorists to 'keep the head' and be patient on what will unavoidably be a very busy route. Help us reduce vehicle breakdowns by ensuring your vehicle is fit for the journey ahead and has plenty of fuel, water etc. If possible please consider car-share or park and ride alternatives. "Similarly, people travelling to Glasgow Airport should allow extra time for their journey via the M8 Motorway - don't miss your flight. "Finally, please tune in to the traffic reports on the radio so that you are kept informed of any developing delays and diversion routes." More information on the scheme and updates on lane closures and other traffic management measures during the works are available from the Traffic Scotland website at www.trafficscotland.org. Alternatively to find out about public transport options visit www.traveline.org.uk Amey urge drivers to take a 'Cone Sense, Common Sense' approach to roadworks: Keep to the speed limit: it has been implemented not only for your safety but for the workforce's too. Speeding vehicles are a serious threat to staff Concentrate on the road ahead, not the roadworks Be alert for roadworks traffic and personnel leaving or entering the safety managed roadworks site Keep a safe distance ? there could be queues in front Observe all signs ? they are there to help you Get into the correct lane in good time ? don't keep switching -ends- 21 October, 2009 For further information, please contact: Amey, Scottish Trunk Roads Press Office, 24hrs, Tel 0141 781 6995

I have a vague recollection of something in the papers about the club refusing a lesser bid from someone else.

Steve, I'm trying not to allow this to drift into a discussion on defending/chastising the merits of players or the management. You know as well as I do that our current position is not a product of the current team on the park or the man who's leading them....yet these are the people out there on the front line carrying the can. How many players and/or managers do we have to go through before people realise that the problem lies elsewhere and that it will never change so long as we focus our anger on the people who are just out there trying to do the best they can, taking the flak for a situation of someone else's making? When you have a tree with diseased roots then it's never going to produce healthy branches or fruit. You can keep wasting your energy throwing away the fruit and pruning the branches, but nothing is going to improve until you deal with the problem at it's source.

Yes but Don we were playing SPL opposition then, we are decidedly average against 1st Division opponents now, I am not sure that is any better Had we managed to maintain our SPL Squad then I might be more inclined to agree with where you're coming from. (Some) Players have had to adapt...and are still doing so. The Club has had to adapt...and is still doing so. Unfortunately we have large parts of our support who have not adapted and who are of the opinion that they should not have too and they can still expect "SPL Quality" performances from a Div 1 setup. It's the old "managing expectations" argument that's cropped up on here a number of times in the last few years. Post-relegation and preseason all we heard was "Bounce Straight Back", "Bounce Straight Back", "Bounce Straight Back"....so part of me totally understands that this is what fans expect and that current results are just not good enough to achieve that. However, I also expect most fans to be able to think for themselves and realise that all the promises made mean nothing when they aren't being backed up by actions. That's not a reference to action on the pitch, it's reference to the fact that we lost a good few players we could ill afford to lose if we were to have a realistic go at bouncing straight back and NO money was made available for transfer fees to bring in comparable replacements. With that in mind....what do people actually expect to be seeing? If the players on the pitch are not good enough....that's not their fault, they've been asked to go out there and do a job and so long as they're trying then we can ask no more. If the manager doesn't have the players/resources to allow him to fulfil the promises....that's not his fault. He can only use what's available, and given he never had a penny to spend in transfer fees, I don't know what kind of players people were expecting to see. Perhaps if we took just a moment to appreciate what we do have on the park, instead of beating them up because they're not what we expected, then we might just all enjoy our football a touch better and perhaps if we put a little less pressure on the players then they'll open up and show us that, like past ICT teams, the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. I could be totally wrong and it might not make the slightest bit of difference, but right now it's the only real option available to the fans, so it has to be worth a go, surely?

Played 9....won 3, drawn 3, lost 3 - that's decidedly average, couldn't be any more average. Compared to Brewsters last 9 games.....8 losses and a win or something along those lines!!! Not trying to say things are great....and home form is what's letting us down, but we're a long way (thank god) from where we were when Brewster parted company.

Think you're trying too hard to look for an argument that's not there to be had. I'm not blaming the fans for the current form, but then again, I don't think it's as bad as some would have you believe. I guess what I'm saying is three things..... - Things aren't as bad as some people are making out. - The nature of some of the things being said is only adding to the problem instead of improving it. - Only when we (the fans) are doing all we can are we in a position to point the fingers at others. I'm not just talking about what happens on matchdays, I'm on about some of the things being said on here as well. It's the name calling/personal jibes and sweeping accusations about players/managers commitment I'm having a go at, not the constructive criticism/discussion.

I don't believe I offered any comparison between ICT supporters and those of any other team...domestic, or otherwise.

How do you know your formation would have resulted in a different outcome? I put it to you that there is no way you can know the answer to that question and your assertions that you were right and Butcher was wrong don't even so much as have a toe in the real world where the rest of us live.

I think it's more than a little unfair to say the players aren't working.....people might have just concerns over ability, but these guys can only go out there and give their best, and for the most part, for most players, I think that's happening. I certainly don't think they're out there thinking "I can't be ersed, so I'm not going to do any work". As fans, there's certain limits on what we can do to influence the outcome of a game. I sit hear reading reams of p*sh about how fans are entitled to boo, jeer, criticise...or whatever. In itself, that's not the problem, the problem is that these very same people (often in the same post) will rant about players/manager/club not doing their bit or being good enough, and fail to realise that they have/are becoming as much a part of the problem as all the rest. Here's a really radical idea.....why don't the fans try getting behind the team a bit more and not be so quick to turn on them. I'm not saying it's fans fault we are where we are, and I'm certainly not saying that the players, manager and club don't have any failings.....far from it. We all like to think our ideas are better, our formations are better, that we could get more from the players or whatever, but the fact of the matter is, we have little or no influence on these things on a day to day, week to week basis. What we can influence is the support we give, and only when we've been standing (sitting) out there week after week screaming until our lungs bleed can we then point the finger at others and say "we're doing all we can, it's time for you to up your game". Criticism is fine, a bit of venting is acceptable....we all do it, and I think it can be quite healthy. However, some of the mindless crap, slaggings and abuse dished out at players, manager etc is quite disgusting, unmerited and uncalled for.

Oh for the days when we had fans who would have been willing to get involved in something like that.

I'd be interested in studying this fact....where can I get more information on it?

I can better that for number of blood relatives all playing for the same club (although not football). 8 of my lot...3 sisters, 1 brother, both parents, 1 nephew and myself have all played for the same bowls club at the same time and regularly make up between 50% and 75% of the team in any match.

Seems to ring a bell, he was looking for a "Pay per Play" type deal or something and we were one of the clubs that he was linked with.

I had to admit to taking a large slice of humble pie on Tuesday Night. Arriving at Starks Park and hearing the team lines and him starting I was f'ing and blinding and making comments about him being a useful utility player and we had better have suffered a load of injuries in order for him to have been handed a start.......after the game, I ended up giving him my MotM Spoke to him briefly before the game on Saturday, congratulated him on his goal from Tuesday and told him that it wasn't the prettiest, but it was deserved for shear effort.....and that I'd happily take another of them against the Pars.....and he didn't let me down. It's only a couple of games, but he's fast losing his "Utility Player" tag, and I'd now be a bit hacked off if we weren't seeing him in the starting line up again next weekend.

All but 3 or 4 on that list we could/should have kept at the club, IMO.

I think it's a combination of some of the above things....plus one other thing not yet mentioned. First off, we don't go out at home and get stuck in from the first whistle. We always start off cautiously, perhaps even nervously, and then try and build ourselves into games. As has been said already, we're so scared of conceding that I think we lose sight of the fact that the aim of the game is to score. Until we get the above sorted out, it's not going to matter a jot what formation we put out there. The big question is WHY we are this way. Again, as has been said already, I think this is in part down to our 5 seasons in the SPL where survival was so important...more important than gaining an extra place or two...that teams were/are almost forced to play more defensively. I also think it is, in large part, down to the amount of pressure on the team at home. As I've said many times, on many threads, our fans expect much too much from the team. They are basically lambs being sent to the slaughter when the exit that tunnel at TCS. The Board started it with promises and pledges of "Bouncing Straight Back" and the fans are a little too fickle to realise that whilst they (the Board) were making all the right noises, the noises we perhaps wanted to hear, it takes more than words to compete, let alone be contenders. I still remember the days when going a goal (or even 2 goals) served to get the fans more and more behind the team. It's quite the opposite these days....not only do we have a more subdued crowd, but we have a crowd who tend to get on the teams backs far too quickly. One thing that really annoys me and does nothing to help is this tendency for our fans to be more worried about what's going on around them, who might be "looking at them", when they their focus should be on supporting the team. Unfortunately there's no switch than can be flicked to cure things en masse, but we do have the power/option to take responsibility for what we do as individuals. If you're one of the more vocal fans then stop looking around or worrying about what others might be thinking, and if you're one of the lesser vocal fans then sit there and enjoy the game the way you want to and leave the rest to enjoy it the way they want to. Being loud or quiet doesn't make you any better or worse a fan......but stopping/preventing other fans from enjoying the game the way they want to does as it means people are not doing what they should be there to do.....supporting the team. So......from what I can see, it's a bit of a catch 22. So long as the fans are quick to get on the teams back then they're not going to have the confidence to do anything other than what they are out there doing at the moment, and so long as the team are out there doing what they are doing at the moment, the fans are going to find it hard to change their habits. No one person has the ability/power to fix everything, but if we each do our bit then things can be changed, and changed for the better. We all have a part to play, and we all need to look at ourselves and what we do, just as much as we might look at others and what they do.....and that goes for the fans, the players, the management team and the club staff and board.

What we have to start doing is sending in a player behind Rooney to mop up from his unfortunate misses and knock the ball home.....like Proctor did on Tuesday.

Your powers of deduction know no ends!!!