CaleyD

We all know that Hastings has a tendency to get ideas above his station, so I wouldn't be surprised if their was more to his non-appearance this season and now his transfer. Golly is a battler and probably fits with Butchers mindset/idea for the team he's trying to create. Unlike those who will no doubt immediately jump on the guy before he's kicked a ball for us (again), I shall reserve judgement until I've seen what contribution he makes. Where did I put my Golly Badge???

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Some of the language being used in this thread is getting well out of hand. Criticism and opinion is fine, but the abusive remarks aren't.

Whole of this season?

Ahh.....the memories.

I would like to see Nick Ross get a start on the right. He's done nothing but impress me every time he's come on and I think away from home where we don't have the width to be using a left footed player on the right (who can cut inside) we really need a naturally right footed player in that position. Nothing against Eagle, think he's been ok, purely tactical thoughts. Stratford has also been "ok", but I think we might benefit from having McBain's engine working in the middle of the park alongside Cox. Tokely has to come in at RB. In saying all that I wouldn't be too upset if the only change we made was to bring Tokely in. We've a lot of new guys in the team and the more settled a starting 11 we have the faster they'll improve.

I appreciate where your coming from, I just don't agree with it or some of the justification for it. Football is all about idolising players/managers etc....it's what drives the passion, builds the atmosphere and pushes people on to perform at their very best. For that reason I don't see any problem with people getting a little excited over Butcher (or any of the players). It's part and partial of the game and has been since Charlie Bannerman was a boy. Yes, fans can be fickle, but that's part and partial of the whole football scene. Brewster was ripping the heart out of the team, and as a result, the fans, and I think that's why people turned on him so vociferously....that was my own personal "biggie" against the guy (as manager). He did himself no favours on the PR front either. Butcher can work the press, and his words alone will win round a lot of fans.....but surely that's a good thing, as the more people you have on side, the more support the team gets on matchday and the bigger the lift the supporters provide. It all helps, and whilst I don't think he should go without criticism when things don't go according to plan, we're looking at one (really) poor result here and a good few people seem to have totally lost the plot on the subject.

:D

Given a bit of encouragement I think he has the potential to be the mirror of Rosscoe and a real asset to ICT. Yeah, he makes the odd mistake, but less so when those beside him are on their game and his confidence is raised a little. Believe.

I remember the days when you actually contributed something to these forums other than the constant stirring you are prone to these days. My situation has changes somewhat in the past 6 months or so, and whilst I might not be as vocal about things on the forums you can be assured my opinions on some things have not changed in the slightest....I just have more efficient means of getting my views in front of the people that I think need to be hearing them. Let's also not forget that the club is now in a very different situation that it was when in the SPL. Some of the issues have gone as a result of relegation and our current financial situation makes other issues/demands insignificant in the grand scale of things. You'll still find criticism where I think it's due (in this very thread in fact), so you can take your snide remarks and shove them where the sun don't shine.

I'm not offering any excuses, just calling it as I see it. We can all claim this that and the next thing about players being let go and the reasons. You say it was footballing reasons, as I understand it some were demanding wages that we weren't willing to pay....neither of us can prove our statements, so no point arguing them. We are where we are, last season is done with and we can't wind the clock back. One more goal last season and we Butcher would be hailed a hero, but being typical fickle fans (much like any other club) he's seen as some kind of villain in the eyes of some. I've always claimed that any Manager should be allowed to succeed or fail by his own hand. ICT's failure last season was not of TB's making...ok, so with hindsight we maybe should have done some things differently, but with hindsight we might also have got rid of Brewster long before we did and given the new Manager more time/opportunity to save us from relegation....que sera. It still baffles me that someone who was so keen to give Brewster an extended stay of execution would be so quick to try and poison people against the current incumbent. You cite Butchers managerial record as a reason to have got shot, but the very same reasons were given for not re-appointing Brewster...and in fact they still stand good to this day....whys should Brewster have been given a chance last season...after proving unable to turn things around, and Butcher, who has done a lot to turn things around, not be afforded the same courtesy? Was it not you who started a thread on the site Archives and the content of them and pointed out how fickle fans could be etc? Perhaps worth taking another crawl through them to remind yourself of just how much you were condemning others for doing exactly what you seem to be doing now???

you seem to be defending him quite a bit!! Would he be in your starting 11? Without hesitation.

Can we cut back a bit with the expletives please. The word filter is not there to allow people to swear at will and have the system star it out to make it "all ok". It's there to pick up the odd word that someone might post without thinking. Some of the recent posts look like a page for the "learn morse code" manual. We appreciate that people are wound up and upset after yesterdays performance and result (we're in the same boat), but if you could just scale it back a bit then it would make for easier/better reading and your point actually might come across more clearly. Please also don't be using full stops and spaces in the middle of expletives to bypass the filter either. It only creates additional work for the moderators who have to go behind you to tidy it up and that's not really acceptable....nor is it possible to keep up at the moment so people who persist with doing such things may find that the quick option of just deleting entire posts is used instead of editing. Much appreciated.

Having a Financial Services background I'm a great believer in the strap line that points out to people that "past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results". I will also only judge Butcher on what he has done since coming to us, and as far as I can see he's done pretty well with what he's been given to work with. Part of the problem we have at the moment is that the club have filled the fans heads with this "We'll bounce straight back" promise, but we've not seen any real evidence that they are supporting that. Our board are making promises that they are expecting other people to take responsibility and liability for. As I said, given the fact Butcher was given no transfer money, only a wage budget, is proof positive that those making the promises aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is....instead they're driving this club towards financial disaster with half ass'd attempts at going for promotion and the kind of wishful thinking that saw us relegated in the first place.....and it's Butcher and the players who will carry the can if that doesn't happen. As it happens, I do think Butcher has amassed a squad capable of deliver....that confidence comes from my being a fan and it being my place to have confidence in the manager and players until such time as they prove otherwise....and one bad game/result doesn't prove otherwise. If Butcher starts making the same mistakes week after week and the players continue to perform below what I think they are capable off then that will be the time to criticise....but we're only 4 games into the season in what is an historically tight division where nobody is running away with it and where we're not cast adrift from the top so I see absolutely no reason for the hysteria and panic.

In this instance, the only thing I'm taking the PotY voting as a measure off is the fan opinion, an opinion which is being blown all out of proportion by the very same folk who have been voting for him in previous weeks. It wouldn't surprise me to find that some of our fans are fitted with nose rings given how easily led they can be.

As I've said already......

He's not been a consistent liability at all....you're starting to exaggerate and get carried away with yourself. I've not totted up all the points for the PotY voting so far, but there's a couple of games where Lionel has scored pretty well, and if I could be bother going to check then I'm sure some of those getting hysterical will have voted for him at some point. Not defending his performance yesterday, but some people really do need to give themselves a bit of a shake.

We've got at least 3 or 4 other threads discussing Butchers virtues as a Coach/Manager, we really don't need another one, so I'll close this one off since you've had your answer on the censorship issue.

If we're dropping players based on yesterdays performance then it;ll be a totally fresh 11 for the Partick game....hope they have a good game or we'll be all out of players the following week.

Looking over the last few weeks games (yesterday aside) I don't see any losses!!! We've won a game we should have drawn, drawn a game we should have won and drawn a game where we probably weren't expecting much more....and we're still in both cups. You'll forgive me if I'm struggling to see whatever point it is you're trying to make.

I think most of the guys on this thread are just far to shy to admit they love Lionel. Repeat after me...... I Love Lionel You'll feel much better for it, trust me.

C*unty fans were going to be loud enough without me providing them with any entertainment....hence the more sensible shirt :026: Following the various feedback I've had I'm playing with just how much "interaction" works in terms of what the majority of the crowd want/can tolerate. I also couldn't wander too far from the tunnel area as I was waiting for the Tartan Marchers to come through etc.

I'm not disappoint in Butcher at all. and I'm a long way from thinking his appointment was a mistake or that any consideration should be given to replacing him. Look at just how fecked up this team was when he took over and how he managed to lift them and at least give us a fighting chance of survival last season. He then had to do the job all over again to lift the guys after relegation whilst working with a signing remit that made wages available but gave him nothing for signing fees meaning he had to find players for free. This is one bad game, and the fact that (given all of the above) we've managed to put together a squad who have managed to compete with Dunfermline, Ayr and Dundee is not bad going IMO. What we witnessed yesterday is what Brewster was dishing up week after week and yet we have the very same people who were insistent that we give Brewster chance after chance now hitting the panic button and asking for Butchers head? I think that (some) of the moaning has more to do with sending some kind of misguided "get it up you" message to those who supported the sacking of Brewster than it is about what Butcher is or is not doing....it's as if some so called fans are almost willing disaster upon us this season to prove some kind of point!!!

Lionel is a Legend in the making....in fact, I'm going to get a Lionel T-Shirt for the next home game.

I think so. Every game i've being to its being a ICT player so i think so. CaleyD must be out having a few drinks after the game. Be on tomorrow sometime i would think Was only a couple of soft drinks for me after the game, then home to bed as I had to be up at 3am this morning for a run to Edinburgh. Not long home, but will get the poll up after I've had a bit of breakfast lunch.