Renegade

Probably didn't deserve a point today, ICT played quite well in the first half but Dunfermline still looked a bit better. Bayne look to be causing Munro problems, and Dunfermline's passing to the wings, especially their left back (the number 3) looked dangerous, using the whole width of the field. ICT's passing though, was to be put it bluntly, awful. Some of these guys (mainly Proctor and Stratford) couldn't pass the ball to save their lives. I actually wonder if they actually practise with the ball in the week, cause some of them don't have a clue. My results - Esson - :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02: - Looked fine to me. Had a great save in the first half to tip the ball and looked confident throughout. Tokely - :huh: - Had a quite game, not particularly amazing. Another one who hasn't a clue how to pass. Bulvitis - :022: :024: - Had a good first half and looked pretty solid, though seemed to disappear in the second. Also needs to learn to pass on the ground instead of these long mindless punts up the park to no-one. Munro - :024: - Had a quiet game. Didn't have a particularly bad game, nor a good one, but he wasn't quite as good as he's normally been this season. Golabek - :024: - Another one who was quiet. Not really in the game at all and at the age he is now where he's too slow and can no longer get forward. Proctor - :022: :huh: - Took his goal well and was unlucky when he hit the crossbar, but can't pass the ball at all. Looked a little better in the centre of midfield than on the wing though. Cox - :022: :022: :022: - Fairly zipped about and fought for everything. Put in a decent shift. Stratford - :huh: - What does this guy do exactly? Wasn't in the game at all, and when he was he gave the ball away. Not good enough IMO. Hayes - :024: - Not bad on the wing, but had a quieter than usual game. Went off injured towards the end. Imrie - :022: - Started up front and seemed to get crowded out an awful lot. Moved over to right wing and did okay. Fought for everything but maybe isn't quite fully fit yet. Foran - :022: :022: :022: - Fought for everything today. Looked dangerous on the ball and unlike the rest of them, can actually pass it. God knows why he was taken off. SUBS - Rooney - - What does he do exactly? Can't pass, can't pressurise the other team's defence, can't control ball. Pretty hopeless to be honest. Sanchez - - Same as above really, doesn't seem to do anything. McBain - B) - Only on for a short time, but in that time did more than Stratford had done in the whole game. -------------------------------------------------------- Butcher - - I was going to give Terry credit for the first half cause ICT seemed to look alright. Started with a 4-4-2 formation, but then switched to 4-5-1 with Foran upfront by himself, and only Proctor occaisonally forward to help . ICT looked okay for the first half and the first part of the second, though passing has to be worked on, it was abysmal throughout. As time went, and especially into the start of the second half Foran was looking more and more dangerous. Then, Terry mucks it all up once again, and takes Foran off.......for Rooney! A player who came on and did essentially nothing. He then takes off Imrie, a player who was at least trying and puts on, Sanchez, another who did essentially nowt. He put on McBain towards the end for the injured Hayes which is understandable, but the big points are still simple. Far too defensive at home. Went 1-0 up and then tried to defend the one goal lead for the rest of the game, which is ridiculous. Barrowman seems to have disappeared, as has Ross in recent weeks, yet his beloved Stratford, stays on for 90 minutes, and he's rubbish. What Butcher see's in him, I haven't a clue. Not good enough Terry, a lot of stuff needs to be sorted.

And while folk are on the subject of Tokely, I'm surprised no-one has brought up my very snazzy avatar I have now.

Nice to see a team puting up highlights of a game, that are fairly decent and fair, showing the chances of both teams. Unlike the Partick ones. that seem to suggest that they run every team ragged in every game.

The reason being is that he's slower than a week in jail and can also be a bit prone to bloopers. Still like him though. :021: Another Tokely bashing post. That's new....

As the title says, who's the best player at ICT? If you can give a few reasons why as well. For me - Esson - Seems to be a very good all round keeper and never seems to have a bad game. Did consider Hayes, Foran, Tokely and Munro, but for me Esson takes it.

Oh come on, is this lets bully Renegade day? :019:

Too right. It's obvious that 4 defenders aint working, may as well just go with 2 and have the rest of the team attacking. That way you don't need so many staying back.

Why thank you. I did read though Man City were considering using it this season. Man U did something a bit different as well last season, and Roma have done it as well and that's the 4-6-0. Apparently it pulls the opposition defenders out of position and they can then attack with a front 4.

It was used up until the 40s and early 50s I believe. According to Wikipedia - 2-3-5 (The Pyramid) The Pyramid FormationThe first long-term successful formation was first recorded in 1880.[1] However in "Association Football" published by Caxton in 1960, the following appears in Vol II, page 432: "Wrexham ... the first winner of the Welsh Cup in 1877 ... for the first time certainly in Wales and probably in Britain, a team played three half backs and five forwards ..." The 2-3-5 was originally known as the Pyramid with the numerical formation being referenced retrospectively. By the 1890s it was the standard formation in Britain and had spread all over the world. With some variations it was used by most top level teams up to the 1940s. For the first time a balance between attacking and defending was reached. When defending, the two defenders (fullbacks) would watch out for the opponent's wingers (the outside players in the attacking line); while the midfielders (halfbacks) would watch for the other three forwards. The centre halfback had a key role in both helping to organize the team's attack and marking the opponent's centre forward, supposedly one of their most dangerous players. It was this formation which gave rise to the convention of shirt numbers[2] but can appear confused when applied to the classic 4-4-2 line up, i.e.: 01 ? Goalkeeper 02 ? Right back 03 ? Left back 04 ? Centre midfielder (more defensive-minded) 05 ? Centre back 06 ? Centre back ('Libero') 07 ? Right winger 08 ? Centre midfielder (more attacking-minded) 09 ? Centre forward 10 ? Offensive midfielder (playmaker) / Second striker 11 ? Left winger [edit] The Danubian school The Danubian School of football is a modification of the 2-3-5 formation as played by the Austrians, Czechs and Hungarians in the 1920s, and taken to its peak by the Austrians in the 1930s. It relied on short-passing and individual skills.

That's the big problem. For a team of it's size ICT's team has a heck of a lot of attackers and far too few defenders. Munro and Duff are the only natural centre backs in the ICT squad, and one of them is out for the season. Poor management really.

Oh please, can't you Lionel haters give it a rest. Grow up little boy. eh? i could count how many times ive seen him play well with my eyes. hes a joke. shyte left back, shyte going forward and shyte as a footballer at any level. Eh, don't think so. He was always better going forward, even when he first signed. Poor at times at left back, but not always. The impression I get though is there was some who didn't like him no matter what he did, good or bad and were desperate for him fail, and when he did it was all this "told you so! Look at me, I was right!" nonsense. Probably quite enjoyed a wee inflation in their little egos and little bit of light into their grey boring little lives when he was dropped.

4-5-1, what evidence have to seen that says that style works at home? No offence intended, but given some of the formations you come up with, you're in no position to be questioning what anyone else has to offer I believe in attacking football, especially at home. Just because my formations aren't the norm, doesn't mean that they wouldn't work. We now live in a footballing society, where everyone is petrified to concede, and that is the downfall of football. The winner of a football match is the team that scores the most goals, not the team that can keep a clean sheet. 4-5-1 isn't a defensive formation, if you leave 1 sitting midfielder to protect the defence the remaining 5 players can all be given a license to attack. With your formation Gibson & Graham would crucify us on the wings and all it would take would be a couple of cross-field passes. I understand your urgency for an attacking team but that doesn't just mean throwing all your players as far forward as you can, even Brazil ain't that stoopid! I go back to my previous point. If you score more than the other team, it doesn't matter how many they score, you win the game. After all that's the aim of the game. Melbourne FFS!!! Considering there are so few teams that play such an extravegant formation you must find football very boring. At times yes, especially the defensive showings of Mr Butcher. No wonder football has gone that way. Years ago, the 2-3-5 was the most common formation, there was more goals, more entertainment and the aim of the game was to score more than the opposition. I like to think that over time, football will return to that philosophy.

Who's that then? Oh right, Discuss. I've never heard of him, is he a new poster?

Who's that then?

Anyone else noticed that some players seemed to have just disappeared recently. First off this season it was the aforementioned Roy McBain, and now Barrowman seems to have followed him, as well as Lionel Djebi-Zadi. Also notice that Nick Ross and Graeme Shinnie have also seemed to have disappeared recently too, who were at least playing semi-regularly this season, especially the former. It's not just this season though, Vigurs disappeared when Butcher came in, as did Hastings (as well as for part of this season) and Wood who were all regular players under Brewster. The same could also be said for the now departed Gathuessi, Byrne and McGuire who never featured under Butcher, though could be for that fact that they weren't very good. It also seemed that Mihadjuks and Duff also seemed to be going that way as well, with Butcher preferring Tokely at centre-half. Esson seems to be the only one to disappear and then return but would probably have been out the door had Fraser not been away. Does anyone know why these players are disappearing, and being replaced by Butcher's mediocre favorites, ie - Bulvitis, Stratford and Eagle. Is it a failure of managerial skills on Butcher's part? Discuss.

4-5-1, what evidence have to seen that says that style works at home? Could ask you the same about you're 3-1-3-3?? Defensive football doesn't work for ICT, especially at home. Never has. Attacking football has to return. 4-5-1 does not work, three strikers at home, that appeals to me. If you keep attacking the Pars on Saturday, that means that they'll have to hold more players back. Simple, and with Bayne probably going to run poor Bulvitis ragged, that's the best thing you can do and thus knock him out the game. Infact, can you name a team in the world that plays or has played that formation? Yes, Melbourne used it for for a good chunk of the season in the A League last year (was slightly different though, they went with the 3-4-3 with a diamond shaped midfield). They won the league, and were scoring for fun in some games. BTW - did consider bringing going with the world greatest ever formation, the 2-3-5, but with all the uproar there'd be from our boring football loving fans, I just couldn't be bothered arguing about it.

Brew was very big on that formation, and look where it got him. You'd be better off playing a minimum of two strikers at home, if not three, and forgetting the long ball, and passing to the wings along the ground to attack and attack and attack. After all, it's what Caley Stadium was built for.

4-5-1, what evidence have to seen that says that style works at home?

Your last point is the most important. Butcher seems to think that only two formations exist in football, the 4-4-2 and the 4-5-1. In fact he even says in that interview from last night, that he essentially doesn't want to play attractive, attacking football, he just wants the win. Away from home, if it works that's fine, but at home, in front of your own supporters, I think we deserve to be entertained. This defensive style might work well away from home, but it doesn't work at home, where ICT's record has been rubbish for years now. Butcher seems to go on about how there's been more season tickets sold this season than last, and there's also those (like myself and others) who go to the games regularly, but don't have a season ticket (no yet anyway). I for one believe we ought to see, no deserve to see an exciting game. For the first time in my ICT life, I've gone to games, and actually asked myself why I bother coming. It's just so boring these days and I've even thought about bringing a book on Saturday! Look at this final coming up. A few seasons ago, I'd have jumped at going down to Perth to see that. Even more so seeing the ticket prices, but I just can't be bothered. ICT will get nowhere this seasons unless attacking football returns to Caley Stadium. Holding back a bit seems to work away, but playing 4-4-1-1/4-5-1 at home is ridiculous. It's ineffective, it's boring and it's a rip off to the fans. I personally, and I suspect I'm not the only one, do not ask to see ICT win the league, do not ask to even see ICT win, all I want see is a good game. Under Butcher and Malpas, we see the complete opposite.

Going by the P and J today, the mighty world-beater that was Dean McDonald is being looked at by Celtic. He was also on Arsenal's books when he was a youth player.

You gotta bare in mind though, that after his injury he was apparently a shadow of the player he was.

Attacking football at home for me - -----------------------------------------Esson--------------------------------------------------- -----------Tokely-----------------------Munro-----------------------McBain------------------- -------------------------------------------Cox---------------------------------------------------- ---Hayes--------------------------------Imrie----------------------------------Djebi-Zadi----- ----------------Sanchez--------------Barrowman-------------Foran--------------------------- Subs - Allison, Proctor, Rooney, Ross, Golabek/Shinnie/Duncan

According to Imrie in the Record the other day, today/tonight there's going to be, or was a "bounce friendly". What's a bounce friendly? Where is this bounce friendly? Who's in this bounce friendly? Can I go to this bounce friendly?

True, but you still gotta know what to do tactics-wise. Even at St Mirren he was credited with playing exciting attacking football.

Stupid formation. Deserve to get beat if you go into a game like that.