dougiedanger

quality patter

Quite right girls. Great to have women fans nowadays. They add so much that was lacking before. Maybe the club should have a nail painting concession installed by the pie stand, in fact make the pie stand a cup cake joint or some such. Also, sales of work could be a real moneyspinner.

Dougie, I refer you to my previous answer regarding Souness. Souness and his band of brothers were universally despised in the same way as Lennon was last season. Those you refer to as 'the people' are widely despised, mainly because of their triumphalism and arrogance, but they would not have ascribed sectarian motives to this, neither now, nor back in the days of Souness. The other lot (or 'not the people' as they could perhaps be called in a reference to a once famous fanzine ) seem to have a problem separating sectarian motives from other motives. And no, I'm not excusing the actions of a handful of lunatics who see fit to send bullets or attack Lennon in the street. Thankfully, to most of us it is just a game. I do see what you are saying and respect your point of view, but it seems to suggest the old idea that one lot is as bad as the other, when it appears more complicated than that. One is not simply the flip side of the other. Souness & co may have been unpopular, but they never received bullets or bombs. I agree absolutely that it is only a game, and that is how it should be.

Yes, thanks, that's what I meant. We can all dislike Celtic or any team for the reasons you suggest, and it certainly does not make us sectarian to do so. Nor does it implicate us in sectarianism if we admit there is a sectarian problem in our country. To constantly deny its existence however is to perpetuate the problem (not meaning you obviously).

So Lennon and several other high profile Celtic supporters are sent bullets and put in fear of their lives by death threats that beyond any reasonable doubt come from supporters of another football club, and then Lennon himself is subject to a disgraceful show of hatred at Tynecastle, and yet the "real danger" in the whole thing comes from those nasty "Celtic fans," who to my knowledge have not retaliated to the very real anti-Celtic (and no doubt anti-Catholic) intimidation that characterised last season's Scottish football. This whole episode was a disgrace to Scottish football and the whole nation. Even the Sunday Post condemned it at the weekend! The real issue here and probably the "real danger" lies in the blind denial that there are sectarian issues at play in all of this, and in the implicit idea that somehow Lennon, Celtic, and their fans deserve it, that "they bring it on themselves." After all, they are not "the people".

Actually a decent point and I am sure Mr Bannerman would be confident enough to stand his version against conflicting viewpoints. Or maybe the "refuseniks" should go ahead and write their version. If only there were one who visited this site...

Not really wanting to get into all this again, but the Hearts security official, a former police officer, testified that he heard the assailant call Lennon a "Fenian b**tard." Not sure of that is sectarian enough for the jury or indeed for some on here, but as Scotty says, seen from the outside, the whole episode must paint Scotland in a very poor light.

I know, the Gers do get lucky with their chairmen. Murray leaves after a glorious reign and next minute they have another billionaire on board, wealth off the scale, lives in a castle, everything.

To be fair, that first post was so full of genuine 'rage' that he is probably still seething after the result. It was real 'crush a grape' stuff.

Hats off dougal, you always reel them in.

Sad thing is we are so used to this kind of decision making that we start to question our own judgment, while outsiders can see there is something not quite right going on.

Think Billy Davies would be ahead of TB for that job.

No, but he will be next week.

Excellent news! Good luck to them.

Way man, for Tudor ah'd climb a mountain.

Did we play 4 times at Ibrox last year?

Great posts on this thread by Charles and Oddquine. No one seems to have the courage to deal with the underlying issue of the OO and the absurd, outdated views it espouses. As long as they are tolerated there will be absolutely no progress made on "sectarianism". On a side note, Charles, it would be career suicide for any of your Central Belt colleagues at the BBC to criticise the OO in the way that you have rightly done. Sadly, the truth is less important there than placating the elements that shame and embarrass this country with their prejudices.

Well done to the lads. Can't wait to see the "after" photos.

Aye, Mark and Dean were some players.

The Guy has been charged with breach of the peace and assault, both aggravated by religious prejudice. See hear That's fairly meaningless at this stage. He'll have been hit with the heaviest possible charge as a matter of course so as to ensure they can get him for as much as possible. Easier for the Procurator Fiscal to do that and then back off on the charges than it is for them to have charged him with a lesser offence and then try to increase the charges. So, to summarize. The guy in the Hearts top standing in the Hearts end at a Hearts home game running on to the Hearts pitch to attack the manager of the team playing Hearts may not be a Hearts fan. And the people sending live bombs and bullets to a group of people (not just Mr Lennon), each one with Catholic/Celtic/Irish connections, may not be religious bigots. Keep it up, Poirot. Already conceded the fact that it looks very likely (practically certain) he's a Hearts Fan. Time will tell on the second point, but yeah, they may not be. P.S. I'm not much of a Poirot fan, he relied far too much on the assumption that certain types of people committed certain types of crimes...far more befitting of your take on the situation. I far prefer Sherlock Homes, and as he once said....."It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data."

The Guy has been charged with breach of the peace and assault, both aggravated by religious prejudice. See hear That's fairly meaningless at this stage. He'll have been hit with the heaviest possible charge as a matter of course so as to ensure they can get him for as much as possible. Easier for the Procurator Fiscal to do that and then back off on the charges than it is for them to have charged him with a lesser offence and then try to increase the charges. So, to summarize. The guy in the Hearts top standing in the Hearts end at a Hearts home game running on to the Hearts pitch to attack the manager of the team playing Hearts may not be a Hearts fan. And the people sending live bombs and bullets to a group of people (not just Mr Lennon), each one with Catholic/Celtic/Irish connections, may not be religious bigots. Keep it up, Poirot.

Well he had a Hearts top on, so a wild guess he is a Hearts fan. The fact that you do not like Neil lennon does not make you a bigot, but in this case there is overwhelming evidence of a widespread, cowardly sectarian campaign against Neil Lennon and other Catholics in this country. Partaking in or tacitly approving of this campaign probably does make you a bigot. Continually being in denial of the existence of such a campaign and continuing to place the emphasis on the target of the campaign, the worst by a mile in the history of Scottish football and a national disgrace? I'm really not sure what that would make you.

If none of this has anything to do with society, bigotry or religion why were other prominent Catholics and/or Celtic fans also sent bombs? And if this is all Neil Lennon's fault, why were bullets also sent to his players McCourt and McGinn, two self-effacing, inoffensive individuals? And if you think it was only one Hearts fan that was full of anti-Lennon hatred last night, you are sadly mistaken. And on the other point raised about Celtic fans' pitch incursions, these were unacceptable, one-off incidents, not the latest chapter in a 10-year campaign against an individual whose partner and child are forced to live in a safe house when he is doing his job. People can deny all they like or plead ignorance, but the facts are there. Sadly, going from the evidence on this thread and others, the reasonable people of ICT are at least matched in numbers by the petty bigots. It is your choice what kind of club and what kind of country you want, just don't try to take the moral high ground over the OF when your own prejudices are but mirrors of theirs.

Contrary to what some on here seem to believe, Neil lennon did not invent sectarianism, and if he were to leave this country sectarianism would not disappear. It is a measure of the extent to which the "petty bigotry" that Dewsburydude talks of has permeated the society that there are a good number on this very site who have a blind, irrational hatred for Neil Lennon. It shows us that this is far from being a solely OF problem. The hate campaign against him started when he was issued death threats by Northern Ireland fans, and was first taken up in Scotland by fans of Rangers FC. It has since spread to virtually every club in the country. Anyone who says this is down to his "combative style" is deluded. It is because he has refused to apaologize for being who he is and has refused (so far) to back down or be intimidated by cowards and bigots. Neil Lennon has done this country a favour in bringing to the surface the bigotry that apparently lies within fans of virtually any Scottish club. Whether he leaves or not, the treatment handed out to him as a visitor to this country is an absolute disgrace, and reflects badly on the whole nation. It is good to read some of the reasoned posts on this thread, but distressing to see so many wrapped up in petty bigotry and downright ignorance. This is a sorry episode in the history of our game and our country, and those who support the irrational vilification of this man should take a long hard look at themselves.

The Rangers for me, for several reasons. Walter and Ally and their impeccable dignity, the onfield panache of the lads in light blue, and finally, the quintessential good humour and harmless banter of the proud and lusty denizens of Ibrox Stadium.