Charles Bannerman

Yes, they would... wouldn't they!? James in practice was kicked out at the end of 1688. When King Billy landed in Devon, King Jimmy saw that the game was up and did a runner. He had been a really bad egg, sacking Parliament and putting Church of England Bishops on trial etc etc. But as a convenient expedient Parliament, when it returned, declared that he had "abdicated" (it was a wee bit like the ICT Board saying Sergei Baltacha "resigned") and I'm sure your Catholic school was very pleased to grasp at that line. However he already was married to a Catholic princess - Mary of Modena, who earlier in 1688 produced a son, James Edward Stuart, later aka "The Old Pretender", and therein lay the problem. When he was born this ensured the chance of a Catholic succession in the UK so King Billy thought he'd better sort it out so he got the troops to pop on their bowlers and their sashes and over they came. This is also why Orange Walkers carry umbrellas. Billy had been told it was very wet in Britain to he instructed his troops to carry them. A couple of other points. George was indeed the "Elector" of Hanover because he was one of the people who elected the Holy Roman Emperor (who wouldn't presumably therefore have been a great chum of Billy, being "Roman"). George got the UK job in 1714 because, failing surviving issue of Queen Anne, he was a grandson of James VI and I, through his daughter (Charles I's sister) Elizabeth. It was a wee bit like Philip's family, who were really German/Danes, getting the Greek job because there wasn't a suitable Greek so rather than do the sensible thing and declare a republic, the brought in foreign labour- hence "Phil The Greek". Finally Laurence, you say "dates... are of little concern" to you. So where the HELL did you get the Original Post from???!!! :lol:

By definition you mean and English (/Welsh?) record don't you? I was also interested that in the "3rd or 1st" thread you have a rather offbeat take on late 17th century British history in that:- * James II and VII did not "abdicate", he was thrown out during the Glorious Bloodless Revolution of December 1688 and he and his supporters both in Scotland and in Ireland spent the next 18 months or so attempting to get him back on the throne. These efforts continued on and off for several decades until they were finally extinguished at Culloden in 1746. This in effect was one of the last post Reformation power struggles. * William was not to all intents and purposes a moden day Prince Philip (and I don't simply mean that he was Dutch as opposed to German-Greek). William was actually joint monarch along with his wife Mary (James' elder daughter) from after her dad was chucked out until she died in 1695 and he continued to reign on his own until he died himself after a riding accident in 1702. Mary's younger sister Anne then followed and when she died without surviving issue in 1714 they decided to recruit in Germany rather than go back to the Catholics. * There were many Scots who were in effect "Cavaliers" and supported Charles I against the Parliamentary forces during the period of the English Civil War. Their figurehead was the Marquis of Montrose who fought battles in several places, including at Auldearn near Nairn and Carbisdale in Sutherland where he was finally defeated, captured and condemned to a grizzly end. But hey... for Gawd's sake let's not go back there! If they're still insisting on celebrating this ancient stuff, let's just leave them to dust off their umbrellas and bowler hats on Thursday and get on with their "funny walks". (And yes Alex, I agree it should really be Wednesday - the Boyne was actually 1st July 1690 under the Julian Calendar which became the 11th under the Gregorian) But I'm far more interested in how big an impression the Highland teams can make on an SPL with just one Old Firm team in it for up to three seasons.

Ann Summers' cousin?

This really has been the most boring non-story of the year! There NEVER WAS any chance of Ross County having to play at the Caledonian Stadium. The only reason the issue arose at all was that due to the now familiar plethora of "SPL rules", Ross County had to lodge with the SPL by 31st March, by which time they hadn't yet won the First Division and their own stadium obviously wasn't compliant, the name of a ground that trhey would play at in the event of their own not having become compliant by the start of the season. But there was never any chance of that happening - this was simply a vastly over publicised and equally misunderstood case of Ross County having to jump through an SPL hoop. By the way, County's single "home" pre season friendly against Coventry City on July 18th will not take place at Victoria Park (which WILL be ready by August 4th) - but at Grant Street Park Inverness.

Even of you'd said "another 1000 fans per game ON AVERAGE" I might still have queried this on the basis that it would mean that the other SPL clubs "welcomed" :love02: a total of 19,000 (1000 x 19 home games) Rangers fans per season across their average 1.5/2.0 home encounters with them in the bottom/top six. However since I'm not in a position to do the sums, I'll not press this one and would be prepared to be persuaded if someone came up with definitive numbers to back up this claim of 1000. However, specifically in the case of ICT - and WITHOUT the County factor - Rangers formerly came to visit, on average 1.5 times a season. Even adding in Rangers fans slipping into the home end, 3500 would seem to be a fairly generous estimate of average attendance by Rangers fans at games at TCS. That's 5250 (3500 x 1.5) a season or, if you divide by 19 home games, about 275 per game, which is much lower than the 1000 stated. As it happens, if Highland Derbies are similarly attended, that should cancel out the above effect and - all other things being equal - gate receipts should be unaffected. Also take into account that there is now only one and not two clubs to claim a disproportionately large share of revenue which should leave more for the rest. As for the "new" SPL, well obviously the departure of Rangers now makes the top 6 and European places that much more accessible which by definition makes the league more competitive. And in any case what's the difference between two teams being able to win the league and one team being able to win the league? Answer - the outcome of Old Firm (or should we now call in "Former Firm") games which per se are of no interest at all to the other teams in the SPL anyway. There is also, I believe, a chance here for a new beginning in Scottish football. There is a glorious (I hope that's not an inappropriately triumphalist or hubristic turn of phrase! ) opportunity here for our game to free itself from this absurd duopoly by two clubs both made artificially and disproportionately larger than the rest by religious division and Irish politics in an area a long way from here - factors which don't even have the remotest connection with football in Scotland. One further thought - where will all the ex Ibrox Glory Hunters go now?

Did they serve fruitcakes? The baker at the bottom of Stephen's Brae was Skiiners, as mentioned earlier. I had a feeling that there was some kind of very dangerous IHE- Wishee Washee combination going on in Burnetts!!!

On which subject, does anyone remember Marshall Grant (formerly Notman - Highland RFC hooker and North of Scotland distance running champion) delivering rolls from a mini van which he kept rolling driverless in second gear along the street as he ran from the van to various houses dropping rolls on front steps? Mind you in the early 60s the chances of another car coming round the corner were relativelt low!

Simple answer....."The Split", which means we won't be making identical journeys. Yes this was what i was originally unclear about. The statistics are based on the ACTUAL number of miles travelled in accordance with each team's allocated fixtures rather than the average number of miles from each team to each of the away venues so ICT's slightly bigger numbers are due to the fact that their "double aways" are to significantly more distant venues than County's. I suppose you could argue both ways here - that by the way it's done here you are observing two variables at once (geographical location and H/A fixture allocation) or that you are examining the actual scenario for next season. However across a number of seasons (no cheap shots about County's SPL longevity please!) where H/A inconsistencies iron out, County will in fact be the furthest travelled by a short head from ICT. The graphs do show what you would expect - that (perhaps apart from St J) you would expect there to be very little among the most favoured 7 whereas with the other 4 (Killie, Dons, County, ICT) it's pretty much in line with how far from the Edinburgh - Glasgow axis you are. I'd still be interested to see the figures for each club in an "average" SPL season - in other words the average distance from each club's ground to the ground of the other ten. What we have here is somewhat skewed by ther single season anomaly of differential home and away fixtures. The differences may be msall but still significant. But possibly the abiding message of this topic is that it originates from newspaper reports and, Rangers apart, this is very much the silly season.

Given that County and ICT have to travel to each other plus to the same ten other venues, how come County's average per game is slightly less than ICT's despite County having to travel about 15 miles to get to the same access point (in effect the Kessock Bridge roundabout) to the south and east as ICT who in effect have to go zero miles to reach it? Or have I missed something in the numerical basis of this claculation?

So what would have to happen here if Brand New Rangersco were to be elected into the SFL? They would need to go into the South/ West section of the Ramsdens Cup while Dundee or Dunfermline went out of the North/ East section into the SPL, resulting in the need to switch one team from SW to NE. Geographically the most obvious candidates would seem to be Livi or Stenhousemuir so what do the SFL do? Completely redraw the first round or give Rangers these clubs' draws away to Annan or Stranraer? Remember, the Ramsdens Cup starts on July 28th - four weeks Saturday, or 24 days after the SPL's formal vote - so there's a whole lot of detail to be sorted out in a very limited time in a large number of ways. Also, is this a long enough time for any attempt by the SFA to overhaul the entire show? And on the subject of a vacancy arising in the SFL due to Dundee or Dunfermline going up, what does the SFL do? Does it simply have a quick vote Yea or Nay solely on Rangers gettng into the Third Division or does it also give other potential candidates the opportunity to apply for the vacant place? Might a better idea not be for Son of Rangers to take a year completely out of football to give them the chance to sort out player contracts and to allow the relevant Governing Bodies time to sort out what on earth to do while the 2012-13 season gets under way cleanly for the rest of the clubs? Even that would presumably mean Division 3 going ahead with nine clubs and the Division 1 and 2 playoff final losers also getting promotion to these leagues.

Did anyone mention Skinner's? There was certainly the shop at the bottom of Stephen's Brae which was much loved by "Kaddie" pupils on their way to and from school. But I think there was also another Skinners? Was it by any chance in Kenneth Street near the bottom of Ross Avenue? The Skinner family were great BB people (5th Company I think.) Morrison's where Ailsa MacInnes' opticians business now is opposite the Heathmount was also popular among pupils who would drop into Frankie Jew's for sweets (or a single if they were smokers) and then on to Morrison's for a pie. On the subject of pies and IHE's reference to Burnett's, there is a story - possibly apocryphal - that IHE's school contemporary Jimmy Chisholm (of Wishee Washee and Jimmy Blair fame) used to work in Burnett's and was partial to a game of football with the said pies. IHE - can you confirm, deny or even admit to have been part of this!?

Possibly further justified by the link that ICT's Hon President and biggest benefactor is a leading light in the Archie Appeal.

Not at all Alex... merely highlighting the very relevant parallel that what we are seeing here is simply a standard symptom of how the Highland minority has historically always been treated by the central belt majority in Scotland

This is really nothing new. People from south of the Highland faultline are quite accustomed to "gnash their gooms and weep and wail" (to quote a certain poet from quite near Mr Shiels' current stamping ground) about having to travel outwith the classic circle of 40 miles radius, centred on the mid point between Edinburgh and Glasgow. This was one of the main secondary sources of delight for me when it became apparent that Ross County were going to join ICT in the SPL - it would wind up these people up even more that there were now TWO clubs in the Highlands that would have to be visited! A certain national broadsheet - which has a long, long pedigree for moaning about this, going back to the days when Partick Thistle fans got distraught about having to abandon their Byres Road bistros to make several First Division trips to the Highlands - was at it again this week. It was the same Kenny Shiels story as appeared elsewhere, which presumably went out to all the nationals via a press conference or maybe a freelance, but with the added dimension that - horror of absolute horrors!!! - CELTIC also had to travel north TWICE and on CONSECUTIVE WEEKS.... amid trying to qualify for the Champions' League! Terry Butcher is very good at rubbishing this kind of pathetic Central Scottish parochialism (which, incidentally, you will be voting to allow to dominate the Highlands totally if you vote "yes" in the Salmorendum in 2014 ). Butcher's answer is that in England the likes of Northumberland and Cornwall are all part of the same league set up, so journeys of several hours are commonplace, so what are the Central Belt teams moaning about? Similarly a few weeks ago I phoned Craig Brewster to congratulate him on Crawley Town's promotion, gained after an away win at Accrington. I caught him in the middle of of a very long journey back down the road from Lancashire to West Sussex. This kind of nonsensical complaining is a very Scottish thing where over 80% of the population live in this wee kailyard and have great difficulty seeing beyond its geographically limited confines. As a result the rest of Scotland, including the Highlands, suffers. Remember Jack Steedman of Clydebank FC who, successfully for a time, fought tooth and nail for years to keep Highland teams out of national league football. Maybe now is the time for the A9 to be renamed Jack Steedman Street!

Not if Ross Jack and Barry Wilson have their way!

I dare you to have it on July 12th instead with everybody dressed in Dundee United strips!! :lol:

No clash with Celtic home fixtures, unsurprisingly. But Club 12 does clash with Dundee Utd's home games, which coulod turn out to be a problem. At a very quick count, I think I spotted no fewer than nine occasions when Dundee United and "Club 12" are both playing at home at the same time, so if Club 12 were to become Dundee, then that would mean substantial disruption possibly for both Dundee teams. On the other hand there are no "Club 12 - Celtic" clashes, now that Celtic aren't playing on August 11th. Nine clashes is just about statistically what you would expect for two teams being drawn H - H if their fixtures had been set out completely independently of each other (it's actually 8.25 - a quarter of the 33 games - but you can't have 0.25 of a game). What would seem to have happened is that the SPL fixtures will have been made up, starting possibly as long ago as it became known that Dunfermline were down, and when there was no serious risk of the now ex-club which was formerly Rangers not being in the SPL so they jigged them to keep what would now have to be called "The Split New Firm" apart. The more recent introduction of serious doubt about the final composition of the SPL has then possibly resulted in "Rangers" being replaced game by game by "Club 12" on the list at a much later stage. On the other hand some may prefer to adopt the conspiracy theory......

That's not George MacRae on the left of that photo is it?

Oh yes? Well take a look at this then..... http://www.bbc.co.uk...t-fife-14734520 Maybe it's also worth remembering other SNP pet projects such as centralising the Police into a single (central belt dominated) force and forcing local Councils to adopt their Council Tax freeze to the detriment of local services. Salmond is very good at banging on about his referendum (where he is actually asking Highlanders to vote to have their lives completely dominated by the sectarian ridden central belt) and how a Yes vote will end up in more self determination. But what he really means is that he wants the lives of every Scot to be totally controlled by his own little fiefdom at Holyrood. Devolution for him is fine as long as it concentrates power in Edinburgh which is exactly what he is doing by removing local control over the likes of police and what local services can be afforded and concentrating it right in his own back yard. As for the A9, it's actually not a bad road and what cause a lot of the problems are some of the total lunatics you find driving on it - a point already very well made by Mrs Jnr. Slow traffic (even though Tesco lorries are no more) is also a problem and a combination of the two is not good at all. Actually one of the biggest liabilities I have seen on the A9 is on a Saturday morning when fans driving to football matches in the south are better than most at behaving like complete nutcases.

What you really mean is that the total number of goals exceeded ther number of fingers and toes which even you collectively have so you lost count! Great to see the old BA lorries, albeit rather more "modern" than the ones I used to drive. A lot of BA vehicles were "SR" registrations which was Arbroath in the old days - where the company was really based. In fact I think another name for it was "Inchcape Minerals". The terminal "X" suggests about 1981-82 reg which was a decade after I worked for Tommy Robb. And you will also notice that the date on IHE's Pomagne bottle is 1944 so it's reasonable to assume that he first discovered the stuff when he struggled off the Normandy beaches, laden with rifles, machine guns and other military equipment, in the June of that year - at which point Pomagne was still probably quite a respectable drink.

Heigh ho neddy - rhubarb and bananas laddie - there are NO hammars in the even numbarred benches - mark it with ay bradawl laddie! But to return to the OP, that really brings me back to the student summers of 1971 and 1972 which I spent driving a Bon Accord 3 ton truck round about Inverness and latterly the Highlands as far afield as Aviemore, Strathconon and Fort William as a sales promotion rep for Tommy Robb. Ten quid a week and 5p a dozen commission for all new sales. I also used to go out on the lorry at times with a guy from Elgin called Bob who was rough as hell and then there was Jimmy who was BA's answer to Trigger. When Jimmy spoke, he used to make lengthy pauses between individual phrases which he used for thought and which he filled with a long drawn out "F***...ING". So you could meet him out on the road in his lorry and it would be "F***ing....any Bona Cola?... F***ing..... none left.....F***ing.... ALL DONE!!" I was also told to try to sell the stuff to shops but usually got a pretty dusty response since they regarded Bon Accord lorries also going round the doors as unfair competition to themselves. It was also at Bon Accord that I first crossed paths with Roy Lobban who was assistant manager there for a while. At that time the lemonade was actually made in the factory in Anderson Street and from time to time there would be one hell of a bang when a bottle burst under pressure. Loading the lorries at the far end of the factory was also hard work. The Anderson St factory was downgraded to a warehouse a long time ago but I have a feeling the company may not exist any more even in Aberdeen or Dundee. Tommy Robb, is certainly long dead - as indeed is his son Vince. I think we were quite lucky for lemonade up north because apart from Bon Accord being pretty good, so was Cruickshanks and even Hays.... and of course the late and lamented MacKintosh's!!! And to finish on a pedantic note for IHE's benefit... the score for Arbroath against Aberdeen Bon Accord in 1885 was actually 36-0!

So what do you reckon TBB? If they'd called it "Caledonian" the team would have been SECOND!!

Se my post #7 on the "Where is the £250K?" thread.

God almighty Scarlet! Whose history class were you in at the IRA? We had to be content with World War I, the Unification of Italy and the Jacobites and never got any further into the Yanks than their War of Independence! On the other hand, when you were at school there was quite a lot less history to be covered! :lol:

Because of my various out of school activities, I actually quite often get taken for a PE or an English teacher. For God's sake, come to think of it, even David Currie presenting The Results Programme once referred to me as an English teacher! But on the other hand, recent progress made by the CB and Mantis escape tunnels may sooon render such considerations redundant!