Charles Bannerman

I would be the first to agree that this was certainly a significant element in many situations and I indeed took it as a "given" that the good fortune I referred to was to a very large measure accompanied by what Yngwie speaks about. I don't think ICT could have got to the SPL and survived there for five years without decent measures of both benefits - ie the right people being there at the right time allied with a number of rather fortunate breaks I'll go through each of my points in the context of Yngwie's suggestion. *I really don't think anyone would really want to attribute the eventual emergence of the merger out of the chaos of Rose Street, Deryck Beaumont's office, the Sherriff Court and the District Council chamber to "brave decisions and initiatives from the boardroom" although a couple of resolutions put to the Third Battle of Rose Street were as shrewd as they were merger saving! *Certainly the Board in 1999 played a significant part in getting David Sutherland involved and it was very fortunate that he, his influence with the Bank of Scotland and Tullochs' money were all around just when desperately needed... especially with regard to the manner in which the BoS became involved in spiriting away the debt. Again I don't want to become involved in a debate over the nature of this arrangement and whether or not the means justified the end, since without this it very probably would have been - the end. *ICT coming back from the dead to win the First Division had little to do with the Board but a great deal to do with John Robertson, Donald Park and a great bunch of players. But to be realistic, with two games left, no one would really have given ICT a snowball's. * It cannot be denied that ICT were simply fortunate to be in the right place at the right time when the SPL changed their arrangements amid the chaos of Partick Thistle's legal rearguard. However I would be the first to acknowledge the contribution of chairman Ken Mackie during that fraught summer of 2004. Ken's diplomacy and determination amount to one of the most telling contributions made by any ICT chairman at any point in the last 16 years. This was by no means the only example of the club being lucky to have the right chairman in place at the right time, although he was in no position to influence the internal machinations of the SPL. * The combination of my last two answers becomes my answer to the next point about ICT being rather lucky to get into the SPL in 2004. * Again there was the good luck to have the right man in de facto charge and calling the shots at the right time when you need to build stands very quickly - ie a builder who is also prepared partly to finance the project. (I do realise, by the way, that since relegation certain fans have undergone some kind of revisionist conversion as far as David Sutherland is concerned.) * I would have to suggest that SPL survival for five years was a combination of good football management and good management from the Boardroom at a time when the lower reaches of the SPL were unable to sweep away a club with all the disadvantages referred to in the original post. *My original post here principally referred to the final 3 or 4 games where a 4 point cushion became relegation on GD when victory, or in the last case even a draw, in any one of three games would have meant safety. There has to be an element of bad luck there in addition to any other causes you might like to attribute it to. So I think Yngwie has actually inspired an excellent question for this year's "Higher ICT" Paper - "Assess the relative contributions of good luck and of good on field and boardroom management to the progress of football in Inverness from the Highland League to five seasons in the SPL". Oops... forgot! They don't set Higher questions like that these days!

At the risk of reviving one of the catch phrases of the old days on Caley Thistle Online ("I agree with Mantis" :( ) I have to say that in the case of what I have quoted above, I actually do. :( Consider the following:- * ICT is extremely lucky to be in existence at all. On several occasions between 1993 and 1996 it very nearly didn't happen or "unhappened". * ICT was very lucky not to go under in the 1999-2000 period. It was only the "Trust" deal which prevented financial oblivion. NB - that is a fact and not an invitation to reopen any debate on the nature of the "Trust". * ICT came back from the dead to win the First Division in 2004. * ICT was very lucky indeed that its winning of the First Division title happened to coincide with the very marginal decision made by the SPL to allow groundsharing and to relax its 10,000 seats requirement. The window of opportunity to get into the SPL in the summer of 2004 was very narrow indeed - rather reminiscent of the narrowness of a similar window through which the club managed to squeeze itself to come into existence in the first place after both sides of the merger had painted themselves into corners in 1994. * ICT therefore was very lucky to get into the SPL at all. Remember that in 1997 Dougie McGilvray laid a bet with Tam Cowan that they would do this by 2004 and the response was almost universal derision. * ICT was very lucky to avoid another potentially fatal financial crisis by baling out of Aberdeen at the end of 2004 and getting back to two very rapidly constructed and resourced stands in Inverness. * ICT was widely expected to be relegated instantly but, miraculously, held on in 2004-05 and in the end survived fairly comfortably. In similar terms ICT survived another four seasons in the SPL despite all the disadvantages of geography and low attendances and turnover. * ICT was then rather UNLUCKY to go down last season after battling back from 4 points adrift to a 4 point safety margin and then spurning three opportunities to grasp safety. In as marginal a situation as ICT has been in right from day minus one, it only required one bit of bad luck to send the club back to the SFL. It would therefore either be a very bad mistake, or the result of the inexperience of youth which has known little else, to assume that SPL status is the natural order of things for Invernes Caledonian Thistle.

I have a distinct recollection of being in B and Q's car park, waiting for a FT (sorry... Full Time score, not Football Times!) before going into the shop when that late equaliser went in at Broomfield. Then, to my infinite and ongoing regret, I was not at the replay and on this occasion - unlike February 8th 2000 when it simply was not practicable - it was a conscious decision. I basically decided that I really was due a night in with my then young family, plus the fact that the BBC had staff covering the match so I was surplus to requirements....and the freezing weather probably put the tin lid on it. That is one occasion which I really, really regret missing. I can just imagine the atmosphere in the Howden End during the shootout! I also note from DJS's excellent account on the Caley Nostasgia Page that the 20th anniversary of that night comes up three weeks today. Oh, and also that the crowd was "only" 3000. I might actually have expected more even though it was so cold - given that almost exactly 2 years later 6000 plus (allegedly although I have heard claims of more!) packed out Telford Street for the St. Johnstone game. And indeed I really wonder if, IN PRACTICE, that 1992 attendance has not actually been beaten by a cup tie in Inverness since that day, notwithstanding the size of the crowds for the Aberdeen game in 2000 and the Celtic game in 2003?

I suppose the next question the weather may pose could be over this coming Saturday's Scottish Cup tie against Motherwell. Realistically, even if there isn't a significant thaw, it would really require another hugely badly timed big dump of snow to bomb this one out. But, looking out at the winter wasteland brought back a number of memories of Baltic weather and Cup ties in years gone by. For instance - Early 1979 - Inverness Thistle v Falkirk. The late 70s produced two consecutive extremely hard winters (to the extent that there was speculation that we were entering another Ice Age!) and this tie at Kingsmills was postponed a record 29 times before it eventually went ahead weeks late (and Jags unforunately went out.) January 1990 - I seem to recollect that the legendary replay where Caley put out Airdrie on penalties at Telford Street sailed pretty close to the wind in terms of the weather and went ahead on a really bitter night. Amazing, isn't it, that the 20th anniversary of that famous occasion comes up in a few days time. February 1992 - in similar terms Caley v St. Johnstone looked very unlikely to go ahead but the frost relented and a famous 2 all draw took place in front of a packed house on a pitch the consistency of treacle. January 1996 - ICT v Livingston at Telford Street. This came at the end of an incredibly cold spell with temperatures below minus 20! No one thought there was any chance at all of this game going ahead but the frost suddenly gave way and the pitch thawed out in the nick of time but was again pretty viscous. ICT took a 2-0 lead but were pulled back to 2 all before Alan Hercher SPRINTED (sic) :D through to grab the winner. Subsequent defeats of East Fife (in a replay at Methil) and Stenhousimuir (1-0 away - wonderful Brian Thomson goal) paved the way to a quarter final against Rangers. It's a while since we've had a really cold spell and in fact the current one is probably the worst since that extremely severe 95-96 episode, but this weather certainly brings back a few frozen Cup memories. Let's see what this weekend brings.

Oh My God! Interesting isn't it that the people who seem to whinge most volubly about this decision to popstpone are not the ones who would actually have to contend with the consequences of any problem which might arise as a result of it being given the go ahead. On the other hand, bitching from the sidelines is SO atypical of CTOL.... isn't it??????

Very generous of you to say so but, to be honest, when I posted that I hadn't by that stage touched a drop! (That came later and is now wearing off!) But hang on... anyone who can use "grammaticise" accurately at 2:53 on New Year's morning needs major respect! :music03:

If they have snow ploughs in front of them... the more the merrier! :( Seriously... the thought of Ross County fans helping to clear the snow at TCS, as realistically requested by Darren in his press release, really caught the imagination of the BBC "dahn sarfh" who couldn't help but see the contrast between this and the unthinkable prospect of one half of the Old Firm helping out the other. It sort of injected an element of civilisation into Local Rivalry. On the strength of this, ICT's snow clearing activities found their way on to BBC Scotland Radio and TV and also Radio 5Live.

From the way things seem to have been going in Aberdeen, I think their total budget to cover EVERYTHING is about 10p.

Can they no just do it for the good of their club. After all thats what supporting is supposed to be all about. Yes, but i think you'll find that every club that usually gets fans to help, they will give out free tickets. And then they probably have to deal with compulsive whingers like Mr 23... such as folk with season tickets complaining that they couldn't benefit from the free tickets. As far as I am concerned, this thread boils down to:- * Darren's original request for help. * Tabitha's follow up to that. * And Alex's very timely and well worded reminder that the thread was conceived as a plea for help and not a discussion on the merits of volunteering. As for MOST of the rest... well nothing surprises me on here these days..... HAPPY NEW YEAR!

You mean in the "good old days" before it was ousted by political correctness which now appears to control some people's behaviour just as stringently as religion used to?

Given how many of them there are, they actually consume a great deal of food which they do not have the capacity to grow and which in certain cases their political systems prevent them from growing. However the Climate Change bandwagon has been so successful in focusing attention on CO2 (rather like Senator McCarthy and Communism in 50s USA) that other major problems such as food, water and population have been completely sidelined. So it also has to be said that a lot of these poorly developed countries are acquiring populations which their very limited natural environments are quite unable to cater for. Furthermore I didn't exclude the developed world from condom use. (Pity George Bush Senior hadn't led by example :angry: :( ) The "West" can do a lot to keep population down as well and every single abstention will also create a disproportionately large reduction in resource use. Let's not also forget that, while China's per capita resource use is growing at an enormous rate, so is India's - and its population with it. India is projected to become the most populous nation on the planet before too long. Of course, alongside population control, there is also a significant place for reduction in per capita resource use but it has to be sound and sensible and not dependent on bogus science like much of what we hear about hydrogen power, electric cars and biofuels. Come to think of it, on the subject of science - for fully 2000 years there was virtual unanimity among scientists about the nature of the cosmos and it was considered REALLY bad form to be one of the minority which didn't believe that the sun and everything else went round the earth..... :(

The only thing which will really save the planet (this by the way is a SERIOUS post) is the humble condom and allied contraceptive methods. However I fear that attempts to implement such a policy would follow in the doomed steps of Kyoto and Copenhagen. If we start off with the CO2, which seems to have become to the 21st century what Witchcraft was to the 17th, how is it produced? By PEOPLE. Then there's food. Who eat it? PEOPLE. It's the same with water etc etc. The problems which threaten the planet are mainly caused by there being too many people and the vital objective, however unlikely its achievement may in practice be, should therefore be to limit population. Think, for instance, of the amount of CO2 which one person, especially of the North American variety, produces in a lifetime - his "carbon footprint", to delve into what is a rapidly expanding and increasingly hilarious Glossary of Global Warming Jargon. Then think of the most prominent self appointed paragon within the climate change lobby - Mr. Al Gore. How many hydrocarbon guzzling North American children has Mr. Gore produced? FOUR. Their combined lifetime carbon footprint, and all because Mr. Gore was unable to keep his bits in his trousers or unwilling to get a vasectomy, must be absolutely horrendous. So hang your head in shame Al for the damage you have done to the planet! But sorry, I have allowed this thread to wander just a bit further from its original thrust so let me restore it with a question. Given the current perception of politicians in this country, do you not think that Mainstander's earlier post, which was presumably partly tongue in cheek, maybe touches a few bases as far as the various parties in question are concerned? I should perhaps also simply note that in recent elections, people do appear to have been exercising the "Don't Vote" option to an increasing extent.

I have just had a call from Jim Falconer. The game is in danger because there are insufficient volunteers to clear the pitch. Currently they have 10. They need a lot more than that or the game is OFF.

Latviaman... great posts. All I know is that we are all Inverness boys together and I respect you all. OK under that old selective system I was lucky enough to become a Kaddie Rat but many of my Dalneigh PS mates went to the Teckie. Respect for the whole lot of us who were brought up in post war Council estates and didn't do too badly despite the likes of DD sniping away in the background. For instance DD obviously doesn't like the Harriers and Highland Rugby Club and also has some problem with IHS. Sorry DD, but just to list two IHS FPs - Alan Rose was a stalwart of the 1976 HRFC team that "rose" to Scotland's top league and Melissa Whyte (Jeans) albeit now 45 years old, is now one of Scotland's top distance runners. Don't know exactly what you mean by " we are all Inverness boys together" Charles. I attended the Techy but I am not from Inverness although I have very fond memories of the place. Many of my friends were from the Academy. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. DAM...If you attended the Tecky then you are an honorary Inverness Boy! What I mean is that, despite the rivalry of earlier decades between the "Tecky" and the "Kaddie", there is the common bond of having been educated in Inverness and brought up in the town or the immediate area. As a result, although not a former THS/IHS pupil, I would therefore also want to subscribe to the greetings.

Latviaman... great posts. All I know is that we are all Inverness boys together and I respect you all. OK under that old selective system I was lucky enough to become a Kaddie Rat but many of my Dalneigh PS mates went to the Teckie. Respect for the whole lot of us who were brought up in post war Council estates and didn't do too badly despite the likes of DD sniping away in the background. For instance DD obviously doesn't like the Harriers and Highland Rugby Club and also has some problem with IHS. Sorry DD, but just to list two IHS FPs - Alan Rose was a stalwart of the 1976 HRFC team that "rose" to Scotland's top league and Melissa Whyte (Jeans) albeit now 45 years old, is now one of Scotland's top distance runners.

As I recollect the undersoil heating costs something like ?70 an hour to run (maybe more at current oil prices) so if it were to be on for, say, three days that would be about ?5000. That's the equivalent of about 500 (averaged across concessions and adults) on the gate. I would imagine that, compared with the gate for a midweek match later on, there would be that much to be gained from the away end alone should the game be able to go ahead on Saturday. Then there's hospitality, programmes etc etc. A postponement is quite an expensive matter generally so there's every chance that the cost of using the heating would be more than recouped. My doubt is about how effective the heating would be given that there has been frost in the ground since last Saturday. When would they switch it on and if they did, would it be capable of melting ice starting at, say minus 3-5 as opposed to preventing solidification in the first place? I just wonder if the biggest enemy here might be water's rather large specific heat! The nightmare scenario would be if the heating were used and the game were still off which would amount to a large double hit.

Ach, ah was only jesting CD. Most of my mates are old high schoolers, just not the high-flying intellectual types ye get on here. So Merry Christmas to all the High School FPs, and to those "Kaddy Rats" that CB is on about. Millburnicks can forget it though. Right then... so that's you jesting about Highland Rugby Club, Inverness Harriers AND the High School? Unusual sense of humour don't you think?

And even the Kaddie Rats coming out in support! :steward:

Mahonio... you been decking the Christmas juice already? ;) The Highland News publishes once weekly on a Wednesday afternoon and goes on the internet fairly shortly after that. The one which is currently on the internet is the one which hit the streets on Wednesday 16th December and which therefore previews the Dunfermline game. Given that they publish several days after the weekend, it's usually, as far as I am aware, editorial policy not to dwell too much on what is by then well in the public domain but instead to look ahead. The next one will appear later this week and will presumably preview the Dundee game.

Sounds as if Bogbain are going to have to build a Zimmer Park - and that's just for the peformers!

Dougie... let ths Kaddie Rat tell you (because you seem to be as utterly clueless about this as you are about Highland RFC and the Harriers)... a great number of Tecky boys and girls not only made it to 6th year but also went on to have distinguished university careers. Apart from that the IHS also produced two Chief Constables... Hugh MacMillan of Northern Constabulary and Sir William "Suds" Sutherland of Lothian and Borders.

John was due to have been summarising at Hamliton v Dundee United which in the end was postponed. The two scheduled First Division games were those involving the top two - Dundee v Morton and QoS v Raith which was also postponed.

Yes it is. Now that I have been reminded exactly who Teetums was, that is exactly as I remember him.... highly visually challenged.. I,m sure Teetums is still alive you know. Does he stay in Montague Row? Must be ptretty aged by now then. Is Feetums still alive as well does anyone know?

And a Merry Christmas to all you Tecky boys and girls from a Kaddie Rat 1965-71!

Thank you PMF! Got it to work eventually and it was as hilarious as I remembered it from many years ago!