I think it's clear to everyone now and IMO it's been clear for months that this 4-5-1 system at home has to end and it has to end now. Why? Just look at the stats. Two wins all season in the SPL to a very mediocre Hibs and at that time, a very bad Aberdeen (and don't forget a just and no more win against Division 3 Elgin City!). Butcher seems to have no clue in how to fix the pathetic home form, well it's clear to me and many others that this formation is certainly one of the reasons why. It failed for Brewster and now it's failing for Butcher. There's no way form at home will improve any time soon until this system is punted and this can be seen clearly how time and time again Adam Rooney is left up on his own with often only the scrap of a Grant Munro hoof to deal with.

But change it for what? Well IMO a switch to more traditional 4-4-2 would be a clear and sensible option where Rooney has a partner to work with and benefit from. I believe that there is also is a case for a 4-3-3 with Hayes pushed into the forward line but with a license to move out wide. I'm really no fan of anything that ends in a 1 and history has shown us that an attacking ICT, is a winning ICT.

The campaign starts here - 4-5-1 must go!

Edited January 28, 201115 yr by Renegade

We don't play a 4-5-1, it's a 4-2-3-1

Whatever, the 2-3 is essentially the midfield, with a lone striker. Whatever it is, it doesn't work!

What formation would you play Renegade?

the 4-5-1 (4-2-3-1) counter attacking formation we play at home is IMO a factor in why we havent been picking up as many points

At home i'd prefer a less defensive outlook. Something along the lines of:

--- GK ---

RB --- CB --- CB --- LB

--- DM ---

RM --- CM --- LM

--- STR --- STR ---

Edited January 28, 201115 yr by Libero

What formation would you play Renegade?

If I were boss, I think my favoured option at this time would be a switch to the 4-4-2 diamond, with Hayes and Doran or Ross out wide, Duncan sitting in front of the back four with Sanchez as an attacking midfielder. I'd also move Foran back to the centre to partner Rooney.

We played a straight 4-4-2 against Hamilton and started with broadly the same against Aberdeen until we went down to ten men (was 4-4-2 when we had the ball going to 4-5-1 when we lost the ball).

It would seem that it perhaps matters what the players do within the system as much as what system we play

Edited January 28, 201115 yr by Tree

As Jonathan Wilson regularly highlights, formations are neutral in themselves, none are intrinsically attacking or defensive. For many years David Moyes successfully deployed a very defensive 4-4-2 with a narrow bank of 4 deep lying midfielders and 2 very hard working forwards who came deep to look for the ball. There are also countless examples of attacking teams playing with a single striker. Barcelona, perhaps the worlds most attacking football team often play with no strikers at all. When Messi is deployed as a "false 9", he starts from the traditional centre-forward position but constantly moves deep and wide as the creative midfielders and sometimes even the full-backs move beyond him

I think 4-2-3-1 works for us for a number of reasons. Firstly, the trend throughout football is to have 5 midfielders or 4 plus a deep lying second striker. By playing a "traditional 4-4-2" as Renegade suggests, we immediately cede an advantage to the opposition's midfield. Secondly, we aren't blessed with many players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet. This is the unfortunate reality in most of Scottish football. It's very difficult to take the game to the opposition when your players are prone to losing possession and we must accept this as a weakness and ensure that we have plenty bodies behind the ball when the inevitable occurs. As well as covering for our weaknesses, 4-2-3-1 has allowed us to exploit our strengths, namely, Rooney and Hayes. Rooney moves well, dragging defenders out of position. When spaces do appear, he has a great knack of finding himself in them, while Hayes' direct running is most effective on the break.

This is how we got promoted and this how we started the season so well, to ditch it now because we're having a difficult run is knee-jerkism. That's not to say it shouldn't be tweaked. By moving Nick Ross into a deeper position, Butcher has made that part of the midfield more creative. Similarly, playing Sanchez behind Rooney is an attacking move. Perhaps his next move will be to play one of the new signings on the left instead of Foran. Again, an attacking move. Changes will be and are being made to try and get us of our current poor run, but they needn't include the old-fashioned cry of 4-4-2.

been saying the same for about 3 months now, give roo some support!!!

esson

tokely innes munro shinnie

cox duncan

hayes ross

foran rooney

Perhaps we could take a leaf out of Robert the Bruce's book. Attack in an arrowhead formation 4-3-2-1