Huisdean

And you know this how?. If you are going to make statements like this, I think you need information/evidence to back this up.

Like most posters, I thought we played okay for most of the first half, passing was better and quicker with less time spent playing it across the back before going forward. Though Williams was a revelation at left back and displayed good skills. United sussed out the lack of height in our defence and sent on another tall forward at the start of the second half and then bombarded our penalty area with crosses and should have scored before they did although it certainly looked a foul on Brill from where I was sitting. The other thing about the second half was that we started to sit far too deep which invited United on to us although it does say something about how we played that most of there attempts were long balls/crosses with not a lot of football played. Overall, an improvement on previous weeks in what I thought was an entertaining game. if anyone didn't think it was an entertaining game, not sure what they really expect from a match. I was really disappointed at the gamesmanship displayed by Dundee Utd and not for the first time they have been here. Players going down at the slightest contact to win free kicks, conning the referee and even the keeper at the end who rolled about as if he head been almost decapitated until he found out there was no danger. It truly sickens me that some teams seem to have to do this. The referee certainly didn't help being conned on every occasions and making some bizarre decisions. I don't think we have had many breaks from referees at home all season. Anyway some encouragement for next week and roll on next season.

Rimet, It was obvious that Christie need to be substituted earlier as while he was good in the first half, he did fade badly in the second half and was guilty of losing possession too easily. That is not having a go at Christie but he is still learning as a footballer and the change needed to be made earlier. The same for Watkins who did fade badly as well and not for the first time this season in the second half. If you think Aaron Dorran contributed nothing in the match, you obviously were not watching the same game.

But isn't this part of the dilemma?. Some posters state that players seem to be playing to a very rigid sysytem instigated by Hughes ( I would argue that the players have to take some respomsibility for how things are going on the pitch, it cannot be all down to Hughes). When Christie and watkins came on against Motherwell , increase in tempo from us and better attacking play and similarly to when Watkins came on against St Mirren, there was an increase in tempo. Are Christie and Watkins being told to up the paceby Hughes or are they just playing the game the way they want to. Hughes must see this and what works/what doesn't so who is pulling the strings?.

If we are going to continue playing the way Hughes states in the P & J today, it has to be done much quicker than we are doing now and even Hughes sees that. We are so one paced in midfield. So if this is to work, playrs have to take some rssponsibilty and move the ball quicker, which would really be a help to the side or if players are not capable of doing this (which i suspect the majority are not), then the syle has to be changed to one that suits the players we have. Simple when you think about it.

Firstly, last night was a dreadful game from both isdes and Motherwell were no better than us, what that says about Scottish football god only knows. I will come to the style of play in a minute but yet again, our defence has gifted two goals, take away those and probably neither side had any shots of note in the box. While much of the critiscm on selection and tactics is rightly down to Hughes, the players do have to shoulder some of the responsibilty for this as well. They do not have to do everything the manager says when on the pitch and an example last night was Gary Warren especially dropping deep to get the ball fromm Esson, pass it across the park a few times then it goes back to Esson to hoof it up the park. That may be the managers tactics but surely the players can make their own decisions on the field. We were pretty poor defensively last night and have been generally for the past few weeks and there i a lack of form being shown by our defence just now. This may be down to tiredness with the number of games in a short space of time as, by and large, we have played the same team in these games. In short, we lack a leader on the park to sort things out as we do not appear to have one off the park at the moment. I have been, what may have been described as a "happy clapper" but I have to admit my patience snapped last night when it was obvious we were playing far too narrow. Any success we did get was when the full backs did get wide and get some decent balls into the box. The other thing that is obvious is the lack of pace in midfield especially when we are breaking. Very few players seem to bust a got to get forwward, whether that is down to tiredness again, I do not know but is very noticeable. The team as ever will get my support but I do not believe Hughes is stupid enough not to hear the alarm bells ringing about what is happening. The test will be whether he reacts for the rest of the season but if he wants to win those fans over, who didn't want him in the first place, then he has a big job on his hands. A win at Dingwall would be a start as was it only a few weeks ago, everyone was raving about our performance there.

After last nights display from some of them, he would be welcome to them!

For me, the team is basically running on empty in many positions just now. Mackay for one looks dead on his feet and maybe Meekings/Vincent as well. Again, it has to be remembered that several of these players are probably playing their first full season at this level and may now just be starting to struggle so giving them a rest and playing other players may ne necessity IHE, not giving up on the season. I thought the changes yesterday gave us more energy and pace in the team and we looked well worth the 2-1 lead. However, when Tansey went off, we definitely started to sit back, again is that due to tiredness, either mentally or physically, I don't know. Sending off did alter things although I thought Watkins did okay playing at centre forward and worth a try to give Billy a rest. For those moaning about having 2 wingers and not playing them, Watkins and Williams, lets be honest, neither of them have really set the heather on fire recently when given the chance so I think the suggestion that playing both of them would be beneficial us not proven by the evidence. I know I will be shot down in flames now but some posters but I think some of the postings just now are amongst the most negative I have seen on this site, and this is causing division amongst posters on the site. It seems to be that those posters who did not want Hughes are seeking any and every opportunity to be negative, that is their right, but this is not helping. Had anyone suggested the current scenario for ICT at the start of the season, Top 6 and reaching a cup final, we would all have grabbed that with both hands. Yes it has gone a bit pear shaped but let's not kid ourselves, we have been punching above our weight and it is now coming home to roost.

While I agree with most of what you have said Renegade, players have to take some responsibility and in the example you gave about Vincent, why didn't he just do what you said. Was it because the individuality has been coached out of him, was it because his confidence has gone and he did not want to take risks or simply he is frightened of the manager!!. Would be really interesting to know the real reason.

As long as I can bring in Paul Sturrock as my assistant! How about Paul Hartley as then you would be guaranteed success if some posters are to be believed!!

How many of those are you? The paranoid one, the schitzophrenic one, etc etc!!

Ho! Ho! Ho!

We are not but as the saying goes, every little helps.

Starchief I think there are plenty of posters who would want sacked now. See the new manager thread when Hughes was appointed and after certain results. As for names cannot be bothered to look but this is just my opinion.

Basically opinion seems to be broken down into several camps Those who didn't want Hughes at any price and wanted him sacked regardless of what he may achieve Those who were prepared to give him a go and who now think he should be sacked Those willing to give him a chance I will admit to being part of the third option for several reasons. Does anyone seriously think changing the manager now would instantly change things?. Hartley would have been just as much as a gamble as anyone despite some posters thinking he was the new messiah (what track record did he have?).All managers have periods when results do not go for you (Arsene Wenger anyone) but you do not build stability and the platform to take things forward but chopping and changing managers. There were no really outstanding candidates queuing up for this post despite what people might think. We are not such a big club that we will get such candidates applying (Butcher was a big name but with limited managerial success). Unless we get more supporters behind us, which was the most disappointing thing about yesterday, we will be a yoyo club, some good seasons and some not so good ones as you cannot keep overachieving year after year, as we are currently doing.

I think Mckay needs a rest either tonight or on Saturday so if tonight, move Watkins up front. Vincent was not great on Sunday so replace him with Nick Ross and Doran has to start (in place of Mckay).

No it wasn't. Meekings got the ball first, confirmed by TV pictures and Mark McGhee!. Could have been given but would have been borderline while ours was a stonewall penalty.

Was Doran on the bench because of the injury he sustained on Wednesday so could noy be risked for the full 90 minutes. No manager sets out to play for penalties, well not in Scotland, because it is too much of a risk. Poor game overall but, as folks have sais, Aberdeen were there for the taking but we just lacked that bit of sharpness. Whether that was down to the number of games recently, don't know. Christie didokay when he came on but, in my opinion, was lucky to get on the bench ahead of Williams. For the last 3 games involving ICT, we have witnessed very poor refereeing. The Willie Collum debacle against Dundee Utd, the ref at the Hibs game was poor, didn't let the game flow and was very inconsistent and we were denied a stonewall penalty with Foran yesterday. The referee had a good view of it but why he didn't give it is beyond me. As for our 3 bookings, only Foran's could be said to be justified as Aberdeen seemed to get away with similar fouls and not get booked. How Robson and Flood didn't get booked is again, beyond me. Anyway, the ref did not cost us this game but now the guys have got a taste of the high liefe, here's to the next cup final next season. Well done ICT.

As everyone has said, poor game with nil nil written all over it from around 30 minutes in. Some positives, which you have to look for in every game. Foran back to where he should be playing and noticeable difference although his distribution was poor (maybe down to pitch). I though Doran did play well, always looking for the ball and running at people. If he is injured for the final, a big loss. For me, Nick Ross may have played his way into the team. Always willing to take the ball, showed good skill but really needs to beef up. Williams as well did enough to justify a place in the squad and put in a power of work going forward and tracking back. Some negatives however, too many high balls, we looked much better trying to pass our way through Hibs. Meekings is not a right back, Hibs sussed this out and did target him but fortunately they did not take advantage. Definitely missed an attacking threat down the right with Meekings there. Disappointed in Polworth. Always tries to play football but sometimes, the simple pass is the best option. Lost the ball too many times last night in dangerous areas which could have cost us. Free kicks not very good either. Overall, not a disaster and looking forward to the final as I still think we can do it.

The only point I would make on this is that a lot of "fans" did not want Hughes in the first place so are just itching to find things to show him in a bad light and be sacked. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the attitude that some posters on this thread have that Hughes needs to be sacked now, or at least if we don't deliver some good performances, very soon. Where would that leave, us, trying to find a new manager again, destabilising the club for several months and no guarantee we will be any better off with a new manager. The same nonsense was spouted about Butcher when we had a bad run under him ( I think at the start of our Championship winning season in Div1) and look what happened. Hughes may not be the manager some/many wanted but to talk of sacking him at the moment is premature in the extreme. That is not a happy clapper speaking, just reality. If this club starts to go down the lines of other clubs and firing managers afyer months in the job, we will suffer in the long term.

It's the refereeing inconsistencies that are bad. The tackle by a Hearts player on Billy Mackay in the semi was worse than any of the tackles yesterday yet no sending off. Another general point, players can commit foul after foul all over the pitch and are only rarely yellow carded but one "error of judgement" can get a player sent off. Football authorities have basically taken the discretion away from referees now with very few willing to stand up and make their own decisions.

While it would be great if we got 10000 plus fans going, it is what it is and the carping from some posters on this thread could potentially turn some non regular fans off. It seems to be that some fans would rather denigrate those who may want to come along for the final rather than welcome them. While there may be lots of reasons for fans not turning out to support ICT but some of the negative comments on ICT on this forum just do not help.

Seriously think we need to think about whether Brill plays next week. His confidence does seem to have gone somewhat and I do think Esson needs to play against Hibs. No player is or should be safe from being dropped if performance levels dictate.

Some interesting posts and some not so interesting. The 4 4 2 formation does not seem to be working but that was not what cost us the first 3 goals. First two were poor defending, third soft and debateable penalty. Fourth a breakaway goal that Raven and Brill could/should have done better with. Poor performance from many players but is this down to John Hughes?. I don't think so but that is just my opinion. Until the first goal, game fairly even but losing two poor goals then the penalty, then the sending off just killed the game. I actually thought we played better in the second half as Warren and Meekings seemed to improve but that could not be hard after the first half. Some serious choices need to be made for the final now. I would seriously consider playing Esson against Hibs to see how he plays as I think Brill has gone off the boil. Hard as it may be, I think we seriously have to consider playing Esson. Vincent poor as well today, didn't look fit and don't think he has justified a place in the starting 11. While Raven generally going going forward, he was shown up defensively today but what cover have we got for him?. Foran also poor and showed little influence today so maybe a hard decision to take with him as well. While we did not deserve to win today, giving United 2 goals of a start and a dodgy penalty basically took the game out of our reach against a United team who did not have to work hard for their victory and were by no means 5 goals better than us as some posters would appear to believe. Finally onto the referee. I actually said to someone, jokingly, before the game when I discovered Collum was the ref that we would be playing against 12 men today. Well while he did not cost us the game, he certainly spoilt it as a spectacle. Both red cards were ridiculous, Tansey's at best was a yellow and Watkins was a foul only at best. Collum just could not wait to get the red cards out and if this continues, most games will end up with less than 11 men each week. What really irks me about Collum is his inconsistency where he will award fouls for certain tackles then let exactly the same thing go. Today, none of these went in our favour. We have been on the bad end of some refereeing performances but todays was one of the worst. The stand side linesman was just as bad getting decisions wrong or simply having the ref make the decion for him. Roll on next Sunday where I am sure we will get a better performance. Aberdeen are by no means unbeatable so here's hoping the right ICT team turn up!