Huisdean

but.............as I have said on another thread, if referees get the basic decisions correct, this negates a lot of the media attention that they get. Why a referee cannot get the basics correct is beyond me. Brine's performance in the second hald was astonishingly poor and could have cost us the game on another night. The goal gave County a great lift which they would not otherwise have got. The fact that they were poor and unable to take advantage of the many dodgy decisions that went their way should not mask the impact Brines had on the game in the second half. His poor refereeing effectively made the game a lot poorer in the second half.

Fillu appreciate where you are coming from and your point about players and referees having an off day is well made. However the referees can help themselves in some areas and that is by getting the basic decisions correct in games. How often do we see blatant fouls not given, throw ins/corners given to the wrong team etc etc. I think if referees got the basic decisions correct, this would diffuse a lot of the flak they are getting now. Of course there will always be contraversial decions where the refreee has to call it as he sees it without the benefit of seeing 10 replays but I would argue that if the really basic errors you see week in week out from referess were cut out, the situation would improve. I also think the media have a lot to answer for as, with all the replays they have, they can and do have a go at referees rarely indicating that the refreee could not see the incident how the multiple cameras have caught it. Something has to be done to improve the quality of refrees however and the SFA have to take the lead on that. Just quietly dropping them down a level/grade does nothing. I also think the SFA is hugely culpable with the younger referees coming through by turning them into virtual robots. The younger referees seem to be brainwashed by the SFA that thye must referee in a certain way which takes away the refrees discretion to deal with certain situations. If a refereee did that nowadays, he would probably be marked down hweres in days gone by, common sense would have been exercised by the referee but they are now too afraid to do this.

Only a yellow, I genuinely don't know if that is good or bad from you IHE!!

Some interesting debate on this but the bottom line is that refereeing performances are getting worse, not just in Scotland, but nothing seems to be done to discipline or improve the referees. I think managers should have the right to comment on referee's performance as it can have a huge impact on games. The referee yesterday was hopeless, easily the worst I have seen at home this season but fortunately we won so not much comment on this from posters. Despite a very very poor performance, he walks off the park smiling, pockets more than a lot of the players and faces no comeback on his many poor decisions. Something has to be done on the standard of refereeing otherwise most managers will be sent to the stand.

The ref may have got the sending off correct but got our penalty wrong ( wasn't a penalty to me) and has been vindicated by Anderson' s sending off being rescinded. However, there is then a strong case of the referee realising that he had got the penalty wrong and denied the blatant penatly with Doran. There cannot be any excuse from the SFA or the ref on the denial of that penalty. So while Butcher may be correctly banned, what happens to the ref who did not perform well. Will the SFA tell us, will the feck. Until some referee gets obviously "disciplined" for poor performances, the standard of refereeing will continue to get worse

I agree with gingerjaggy that until the SPL format changes, that will have an impact on attendances. Not sure how much, and don't think this is the sole reason for our delining attendances but certainly a factor.

Give it a rest with all this "reason to believe" guff. If you know something, spit it out or don't bother posting as this adds nothing to the debate.

After 1 bad game this is siad. I despair!.

Yeah you can tell and that is why I have to disagree with a lot of what you say. Sure we deserved to get beat today but to say that the players didn't seem to care is totally wrong. I thought the players did try and we simply got beat by the better team on the day. Losing the first goal early really killed us I think but to totally slate the players and management team as you have done, is just symtomatic of so many posters who cannot see any good in anything the team do. I agree with you about Raven though, Meekings has to start next week along with Nick ross if he is fit. I actually think Sutherland was more involved today than in previous games but he seems to be really lacking confidence. I also thought the central defenders did not too bad, especially Warren in the second half but they do seem to have a tendancy to get caught square. Final word on the crowd today, lack of home support is shocking. Don't want to hear the usual excuses from some posters, either you support the team or you don't and go to the games as otherwise, there will come a time when we have no team to support.

Well said Davie. Get out and support the team

Why all the moans about red cards all of a sudden. We are not the only team to have had them this season and the majority I have seen have been very soft indeed, another ref may not have sent some of these players off. As for us, OTJs was a simple rush of blood to the head, out of character in the games i have seen him play but this sometimes happened and he deserved to be sent off. As for Foran's tackle, debateable if it was a sending off but quite simply, he mistimed a tackle in my opinion and did not deliberately seek to injure an opponent. Sometimes you will get a yellow, sometimes a red but the abuse OTJ and Foran have been getting from some posters is way over the top.

It will be interesting to see what impact this has on the attendance as this will affect County supports to who travel from all over Ross-shire. I don't think this game will sell out now but hopefully will be proved wrong.

That is what I was going to ask before I was so rudely interrupted !! Can some body with a footballing brain, qualified or unqualified attempt to clarify what exactly went wrong. As I posted after the Midden match my concern was that our system was positive but if the likes of unqualified peeple such as maself can suss how it works and where the potential flaws are then what about the more qualified peeple ? I was hoping that a home game would provide me / us with a concept of what Plans B,C and D would be - how we could change the system quickly if necessitated. As Alex states it is not what we do but how we are able to change the system and style. Some teams do this time after time and often in relation to the opposition. Or was it simply a case of some players playing poorly - or out of position - or not used to playing with each other etc., etc., etc. Killie definately changed their tactics although not sure if this was deliberate or whether forced by their injuries. This seemed to push us further and further back, again don't know whether this was down to Killie or players decided easier to sit back and defend. We did defend well but the promlem with playing so deep was that there was then no outlet and inevitably the ball ended up back with Kilmarnock. Certainly you could hear fans telling the team to get up the pitch, and I think Terry and Mo as well but we seemed to lack a leader or someone on the pitch to put that into operation. After ithe initial spell, we also got overun in midfield as kilmarnock seemed to flood this and often we only OTJ and Draper gainst several Kille players. Sutherland and Doran did track back sometimes but generally only in the wide areas leaving too mucg space in the middle of the park. Altough generally passed off the park for long spells, little cutting edge from Killie and we certainly had the better chances but didn't take them. My one major worry is that, at the moment, I don't think we have a plan B to change tactics although that may be down to the new players getting used to our system. I also think the system we have doesn't work particularly well at home but we don't seem to be able or want to change this. I say all this from a fans perspective, not with any insight as a coach but it does worry me that we are a bit one dimensional in terms of tactics/systems.

Totally agree with your last paragraph. Nobody can ever "guarantee" entertainment at a football match but as long as the team shows desire, commitment and passion on the pitch, then they will get my support. Speaking to some Aberdeen supporters after the RC game, they said there was precious little entertainment from both sides yet the fans backed their respective teams to the hilt during the game.

Bait Red Snapper perhaps?

With all due respect Dad, that's not what's happening here. A contrary opinion isn't necessarily a tirade. What is happening is that some people are clouding the issues by using fairly ridiculous hyperbole and personalisation and people respond to that rather than the content of the argument. I think that the way things are going points to a fairly fundamental split emerging in the fans and what they want. Are we to be a lower league highland sourced club, or are we a cosmopolitan one? Are we prepared to live with the consequences of another relegation because we play cavalier football? Are we prepared as a support to take a share of the responsibility if it doesn't pan out? Or do we want a club that challenge in the SPL with the rules that come with it? Your choice, but I just hope that the club survives the choices that seem to be currently being made. I think this hits the nail on the head very well. The choice does appear to be boiling down to this and apathy from the footballing public of Inverness. Oh and one more point, while we all like to be entertained when we go to see football, it never has and never will be guaranteed when attending a football match (well maybe if you support Barcelona). The excuse from some posters that they are not going back until the team becomes more entertaining doesn't wotk for me anymore and certainly not at this stage of the season

Everyone has the right to express an opinion and would never try to stop that but I think the point Oddquine was trying to make is the constant carping that goes on here by some posters. We could win the Scottish Cup and I guarantee some posters would be on here moaning about this that or the other and that is what is beginning to sicken me about some of our support. I don't think Butcher is the new messiah and, to be perfectly honest, if no real improvement in the team this season, in terms of results and performance, I do think it will be time for a change but let's give the team a chance first before expressing some of the nonsense spouted on here. I do know IHE, although not seen him for a few years. I know he wholeheartedly supports ICT but some of his posts are so OTT that they border on farce sometimes. I am well aware IHE likes to fish at times but a little less often would be welcome!.

Utter nonsense. It is only the fact that some people continuallybring this up that keeps this as an issue. Of course more local players help maintain local interest but were Duncan or Tokely locals lads, no they were not. You support your local team and I think the club are trying to work through the community to get some support as Caley D mentions in his post but sadly the local population just do not want to respond but please stop this drivel about Butcher changing the makeup of the team being responsible for declining attendances as it is simply not the case. Oh and by the way, the constant droning on about long ball football is also becoming tiresome. If you listen to Butcher at home games, he is urging the ball to be kept on the deck, it is the players, perhaps due to the Scottish mentailty, that resort to the long ball and we are not the only team that does this. Why, even Kilmarnock did this yesterday but that spoils a good moan if that is not mentioned.

I have to say that I am totally hacked off with soem posters on this topis. Renegade's first post baing a classic example. We did not lose the game yesterday and the football played, especially in the first 20 minutes was really good. It didn't match that after that although there were still some examples throughout the game, Nick Ross's chance at the end being a prime example. As for OTJ's red card, it was a definite red but some of the criticsm of him on kere is unbelievable. I think the red mist descended on him after aa bad tackle, and it was a bad tackle, and he reacted. If you have played football, then you know these things sometimes happen. As i have said he deserved to be sent off but it was out of character and up till then had possibly been our best player. incidentally, his sending off did not cost us the game where i can think of a few of Tokely's that did and cannot remember Tokely getting the same flack as OTJ. As soemone said, this was the first home game of the season and the things are looking better after 2 games than they did last season but some fans/posters are still expecting us to start the season as world beaters. Incidentally, not surprised that Butcher sometimes reacts to fans in the main stand especially when after 5 minutes in, ceratin players are getting huge abuse from some home fans. After hearing this for ages at least one other fan and myself challenged them to get behind the team and they looked bemused that someone should challenge them. I think we must have some of the worst supporters ever and I genuinely mean that. As for the attendance, the people of Inverness should be ashamed of themselves after yesterday. I am tired of hearing that we have been crap at home for so long (which isn't alaways true) that they are not going to attend anymore or will pick and choose their games. A lot of the posters who post vitriolic or constantly negative posts to me are simply not worthy of being called supporters. Given yesterdays poor attendance, I again question if Inverness wants or merits an SPL team. Truly truly dejected after reading some of these posts.

Don't believe all you read So what is the amount of sales ? Why do the club behave in such a secretive way over season ticket sales ? I agree, surely if the club gave actual numbers, and they showed sales were well down, it might encourage some more sales?.

Totally disagree with this. I have only seen the TV highlights, and the mobile phone evidence. From the TV highlights, the situation is not captured and it is impossible to say from the mobile phone footage exactly what happened or how serious this was. What i will say is that from the TV highlights, the referee was in a good spot and was clearly looking at the incident so he saw what happened and made his decision. He was also not very far from the incident, ceratinly a lot closer than any of us or the fan using the phone. The sending off was probably harsh but that is down to the referees decision, not our player. If the referee thought our player had simulated this act, he could have booked him and not sent the St Mirren player off. If our player did make the actual incident look worse, and I don't believe it was done to get a player sent off, then shame on him but hopefully he will learn from this. We have suffered, especially last season from horrendous refereeing decisons and this incident, I would suggest says more about the quality of refereeing than anything else, so maybe we are due a bit of luck/justice from referees. It amy also be aprt of becoming more streetwise as a team, possibly because some of the new signings are older and more experienced, which was also badly needed last season. At times we are simply too nice a team.

It's all very well fans not renewing season tickets but then they cannot complain if the quality of players we can sign then decreases due to lack of money. It will be intersting to see the results of the poll but when you see a team like Hibs increasing their season ticket sales and Aberdeen as well, when they were equally as poor as us last season, if not poorer, it does make you question the loyalty of some supporters. As I have said before, Inverness either wants an SPL team or it doesn't, I think too many fans would be happier being in the lower divisions. SMEE - while £12 a game would be great, and I agree that football is overpriced, I don't even think that would get fans back sad to say.

Just a thought, and aimed at those who say they are staying away because of the quality of football last season, I seem to recall that the first time we were in the first division, and playing "attractive" football, our crowds struggled to hit 2000. Going from memory, so may be wrong, but I think we were generally one of the poorest supported teams in the first Division despite playing, allegedly more attractive football. This maybe backs up what Caley D has been saying and deeper analysis is required as to why fans are not attending. People like me, who go to games no matter how the team are performing, are becoming fewer and fewer with fans much more fickle now for whatever reason. However real danger is we may not have a full time team at all if the crowds continue to go down so folks need to decide on what sort of ICT they want. Me, I want ICT playing at the highest level in Scottish football, not part time and moving around teh lower leagues but some fans seem to think that would be better than being in the SPL while stating the board/manager etc lacks ambition.

And do what exactly? They are running a BUSINESS and in any business they need to have a product which encourages people to buy into it. They need to quickly find out WHY our support are not buying as many season tickets. Is it because we can't afford it? Is it because we don't find the product value for money? Are there any othe reasons? There must be reasons why we are always struggling financially and I'm sorry that some of you may not like this but it is the BOARD's responsibility to keep this business viable or we cut our cloth even further and play at a level we can AFFORD. I don't want to be negative but it is a well known fact that a very prominent businessman is willing to make a substantial investment in this company but why has he not done so? Maybe he has no intention to invest under our present guardianship. For whatever reason, our men in charge need to find out if he has genuine intentions, what conditions are attached, make any changes needed and then do their utmost to get the job done. While it is the Board's responibilty to keep the Buisness viable, the football public of Inverness has to respond and to be honest, the majority don't. A lot of people have posted that because games/performance were poor last season they will not renew their season ticket. It then becomes a vicious circle with declining revenue meaning players of lesser quality and so on. A challenge to "supporters" then, if you want the club to succeed and can afford it, renew your season ticket and help the Directors/Board

As ever some good ideas but nothing from the Board to indicate they are doing somethind. i have said before as have others, most notably IHE, that it appears some members of the board, not all, are just their for the position/prestige and do nothing to justify their place on the board. Effectively they are getting free advice from the fans FFS