Scotty

straws and clutching spring to mind ...... 4-5-1 has been working away from home, he switches to 4-4-2 last week and surprise surprise it doesnt work. He cant buy a win at the TCS using the 4-4-2 lineup or any lineup for that matter so thinks he will try the 4-5-1 that works so well (sometimes) away from home. Biggest issue for me (apartfrom chopping and changing the lineup again) is that opposition teams tend to play differently depending on whether they are home or away ...... having said all that, the two Jimmies are unpredictable so it might work !!!! Teamtalk for me would be simple: ....... Do it for Jock !!!

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Shock. You're as bad as the club please explain that comment ? I am not telling people to capitulate and do nothing, just urging them to consider how others could spin it to their own benefit if the "protesters" dont play it smartly.

I was not saying don't protest at all, I think I said postpone or tone it down and what I was meaning when making that point is that you have to be very careful over how you do it and equally if you decide to go ahead, that you should choose your moment(s) wisely as many may be less sympathetic than they were just a few days ago. If its "bull in a china shop" sort of stuff, its those who are protesting who will come out of it looking like the bad guys ... so whatever you feel the need to do, give it a bit of thought first is all I am saying.

I think you are correct. Jock's last act as a club official may have been to dilute the appetite for protest ... at least for this week. Because he was such an integral part of the fabric that is ICT and virtually all supporters will want to remember him in a respectful manner, I would suggest that supporters who may be planning some form of direct action might be better served if they postpone it, or tone it down. By all means voice displeasure during the game, or with well timed chants, but remember that a lot of people at the club will be mourning a man they knew far better than a lot of the fans did and any actions may be met with an emotional over-reaction. It would also be a perfect opportunity for some to try and "spin" any actions by the fans in a manner that deflects away from the problem and makes them (the fans) look like the villains in this pantomime !!!! Wearing the Jags scarf ..... excellent idea. very fitting (on this occasion)

unless he was doing it for the love of the game (or the club) and was going to take a massive paycut then the simple fact is that there is no way we could afford his wages.

Agree with RiG. Wyness came back in late 05 and signed a pre-contract in January 06. Charlie took over from Brew in January 06 so he may technically be a CC signing (not sure of exact signing date). However, I think we can safely say that even if CC signed him, the ball started rolling under CB so you have to give him credit for that one.

A minutes silence to show respect, a minutes applause to show our appreciation .... I would go along with whatever those who knew him best think he would have approved of most. I will however stand up and join in with either of those gestures from the comfort of my computer room here in Toronto when the time comes and would urge anyone else listening on the radio or on the internet to do the same. no-one will see you, but you will know you paid your last respects to a man who helped shape our club from day 1.

I will give you Dargo, Imrie, Esson and Rooney but the best of the bunch .... Don Cowie .... was a Charlie Christie signing (pre-contract in Jan 07, signed in July 07 ... Brew came back in Aug 07). However, to balance your argument I will also give you Djebi-Zadi, McGuire, Barrowman, and potentially Byrne. All managers have managed to sign a few crackers .... but equally, they have all signed some duds too !!! If you include the DUFC signings, I would go as far as to say he does have a decent eye for potential but I dont think anyone really went over the score in saying he didnt ... it seems to be tactics and his alleged arrogance that let him down.

That was a bit savage IHE

Perhaps you should make it clear you are referring to THIS SEASON. As others have said, we have played 4-4-2 for much of our short history and it has served us pretty well. we have certainly won a damn site more games using that formation than any other over the years. I guess the big difference might be who was actually formulating the tactics ..... if the person talking tactics doesnt know how to play 4-4-2 then there is no point using it !!! As for the punt - I agree with you 100%. ICT have ALWAYS been a better team when playing the ball on the deck and that is regardless of 442, 451, 352 or any other combination you might want to mention.

Very sad news indeed, and one thread on here where I think everyone can speak with a single voice. Condolences to his family, and to those who knew him well. He will be sadly missed by the ICT family (fans, players, officials and staff). Smee - you may be thinking of Norman Miller.

The idea is good but i fear it would go the way of the U12 passports which was essentially a similar thing for kids .....

I agree to an extent with your theory of 12 Harry .... but think its a little more complicated. There is the theory of 2 which Celtic and Rangers have. The theory of both is the same, win the league. There is then a theory of 4 with teams such as Aberdeen, DUFC, Hearts & Hibs which is aim high and try to split the OF, but at the very least finish in the top 6 and/or qualify for Europe. So we are left with a theory of 6 for the other teams which is try to do as best we can, avoid relegation and finish as the best of the rest in the bottom six. The ultimate goal of these 6 should be a desire to see if some years we can "over-achieve" and do well in a cup here or there, get into the top six or maybe qualify for Europe. I could actually accept the spectre of relegation if the team were going out there with the tactics and motivation that meant they were trying in every game, battling hard and ultimately losing to better sides either by want of the other side's better skill or even by the odd bit of bad luck. but we are not doing that we have capitulated time after time this season and last, we have lost the team spirit that DID see us over achieve at times, and some weeks we simply dont seem interested. YES the players need to take some blame for that as it is they who have to play the game, but it is Brewster's job to get them motivated for it, and to setup tactics that should work (and are not confusing) and he doesnt seem to possess that ability.

Serious Answer: What I expect from a manager is for him to get the team competing to the best of its ability on a consistent basis and look like it is trying. I also expect him to be honest or even humble enough to say to the fans that he got things wrong from time to time. I do not expect us to win every game, I do not expect us to be in the top six every year, I do not expect us to win a cup regularly or qualify for Europe on a consistent basis - we are NOT that big (yet). We can aspire to these things, but there are clubs far bigger than us who, if they perform, will easily beat us to those goals. Right now, the only thing Brewster seems to have achieved on a consistent basis is that he has got the squad fit. We only seem to have a fighting spirit in every 3 or 4 games. We have zero consistency, and half the time we look like we arent even going through the motions. That, IMHO is not good enough.

Yes, i believe the story was clarified as "contract being looked at" and we could take from that what we would .... no need to abuse. He is as entitled to his opinion as you are to yours .... by all means ask for reasoned argument to back up the assertion but all this abuse on the boards is getting us nowhere. At the end of the day we are all hurting one way or another and we should all be focussed on making ICT better, even if we dont all agree on the actual illness !!!

Chris - I spent much of last weekend in deep thought. I didnt even come on the site from Friday until late on Sunday as I couldnt face it. My dilemma ? How to say what I really felt without jeopardising Boardroom Banter and the small amount of club liaison we have with the likes of Andrina / Darren in promoting things like ticketing info and event info. I have already given up on Mr Smith who despite many requests in the past consistently fails to include us on things like press releases. There are a few people (inside the club and out) working to make this a success because they want the club and fans to be able to talk to each other again, there are equally as many (again, both from inside and outside the club) that want to see the effort fall flat on its face. I have spent much of the last few weeks sitting on the fence, or uncomfortably changing my position on an almost weekly basis for two reasons ... the first because I wasnt 100% sure that I wanted Brewster out, I could see the odd bit of potential in amongst all the crap, and the second because I didnt want to jeopardise the fledgling return of BB and the hoped-for upswing in fan/club communication it can bring. However, in the last few weeks, sad as it is, I have come to the realisation that my heart cannot allow me to continue on the fence. I have to say what I think, and I have to say what I think is best for my club, your club, OUR club. I have now said it, I am no longer on the fence, and I sincerely hope that the Board can see that my concern is not meant as a slight on them, but as a heartfelt plea to do what is in the best interests of what really matters ...... ICTFC. To that end, I hope they will have the balls to support both the fans and the players by changing the management team, and by doing it before it is too late.

very mature argument To answer your points..... The players already have disbelief. You can see/hear that from performances throughout 2008. Some of our members are also family members, friends, or have contact with, the players and have been told this from the horses mouth. There are also quite a few members on the site who are part of the "establishment". The club is already in turmoil and has been for some time. I dont prescribe to the view that no-one is trying to do anything about it, I know some are but quite often, the positive hands are tied because of internal politics. However, we are now in the scenario that we are "touching cloth" so to speak, and, despite the optimism of a dwindling few, many posters seem to feel that a public forum is the only way they can vent their opinions as the club is either ignoring correspondence (as mentioned by a few) or failing in their duty - as mandated by UEFA's club licensing scheme - to respond within seven days to reasonable requests. In short, the bunker mentality appears to have returned. If Mr Brewster loses his job, it will be no-one's fault but his own. I fully expect him to blame the fans, the pitch, the players, the fact that his coffee was Maxwell House instead of Nescafe, but at the end of the day he has failed to do what he is employed to do which is to provide results and if he resigns or is sacked, its on his shoulders and his alone. Firstly, the "senior" members of this board as you put it are just as entitled to their opinions as anyone else. Should they shut up because what they say might offend? Should they compromise their own principles to "toe the party line"? Should they censor the views of others because they are controversial? The answer to that is NO. I did it for years when the site was official, and that was the price I had to pay for the official tag. We will edit/modify or remove things as per our forum rules, but we will not do so just because we dont agree or because the point - valid though it might be - might upset someone. Believe me Harry, sending emails to the club is far more preferable than some of the other suggestions that have been proposed and actively discouraged. I would suggest that telling unhappy fans to email the club privately with their concerns is far more responsible than suggesting other methods of protest. The club like to receive emails when they are doing things right, it is only fair that they accept the same format when the questions are less friendly or harder to answer. I will however concede to you that we should NOT be doing this. In a more perfect world, our Manager would already have conceded that things are not working and maybe elaborated at least a little bit on his plans to make it right, our Board of Directors would already have acknowledged the frustrations of fans and promised to get it sorted, and our Supporters Trust would already have publicly voiced the concerns of the fans. The blameshifting from the manager, and the silence from the others leaves the fans with very little option but to voice their own concerns in the one place they can do it !

Do you mean Dwayne De Rosario ? The Canadian player of Guyanese descent whose name sounds Italian, and who has just signed for Toronto FC ?

ok. here's a few names from MLS !!!! Central defender - Michael Parkhurst: leaving the New England revolution on a free. expected to sign for FC Nordsjaelland permanently but still there as a free agent right now. salary this year was US$147k (less than 2K per week UK money). Parkhurst was MLS's 2007 defender of the year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Parkhurst Defender: Chad Marshall: out of contract at Columbus. The defender was the 2008 defender of the year in MLS and got a champions medal for the MLS winning side. Wages this year were roughly same as Parkhurst. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Marshall Striker: Kenny Cooper: leaving Dallas. The second top scorer in MLS last year is supposedly interesting Eintracht Frankfurt and only gets paid around 54K per year (UK money). On the down side, he would probably require a transfer fee to MLS and that might put us out of the game if he moves while still in contract. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Cooper .... and of course there is always Kenny Deuchar !!!

LOL - Grassa is the only ICT Manager (caretaker for 2 games - 14/21 Dec 2002) who has suffered 0 losses !!!! Having said that, it was also 0 wins as he managed to coach us to a draw in both his games in charge !!!

If you think we are becoming a "laughing stock" to fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. However, what I see is an ever increasing number of people with ICT in their hearts who are slowly but surely coming to the realisation that things are not right and who want to put their opinions out there to try and stop the rot before it is too late. If we dont act until we are relegated, it will already be too late. As has been said in other threads, this is not so much an "anti-Brewster" sentiment (although there is an element of that from some), it is more of a PRO-ICT groundswell. I can remember back to the end of our first ever season and can honestly say that it looks like many fans have a lower regard for the current manager's ability than they did for Sergei and he (allegedly) used to fine his defenders for going over the halfway line !!! If it takes this site being a "laughing stock" to effect change, then so be it. I don't have a self esteem problem so it wont cause me the least bit of worry and is far preferable to the alternative which is 1st (or lower) division oblivion.

That is the point I was trying to get across ....... looking at all the stats I would be happy if we were somewhere in the region of 33/33/33 as that would mean we were winning and drawing our fair share of games ...... but when you see a small percentage of wins and an even smaller percentage of draws, it leads you (along with knowing the actual results) to conclude that we get the odd win, havent got the fight to claw back to a draw if we are losing and once we are behind, we almost always lose ..... thats not the ICT that I know !

You do have a point. It is frequently the case that statistics and numbers can be interpreted in many different ways, especially when there can be some argument about inconclusive data sets ..... but please, just take a look at the win, loss and draw% columns on the far right and honestly tell me they do not worry you.

Unless you were present at this alleged "one-to-one" meeting, then I would urge you (and anyone else) to be quite careful about making comments which cannot be backed up by fact. Feelings may be running high on this "board" but it is my opinion that the other "board" of which we speak is also watching comments on here quite closely ...