Scotty

sounds like a fair comment - hadn't looked at it in quite that that way .....

:023:

Thats what pushed me into the "P45" camp ..... I have openly said I have no idea what the right decision is at various points in the thread but the quotes in the HN make it sound like he hasnt accepted wrongdoing while at the same time admitting to purchasing an illegal class "A" drug ........ You cant have it both ways, and that excerpt does not sound like someone apologising for stupid behaviour, but someone looking for an excuse. My heart says give him a chance but when you take everything together it looks very difficult to find a way to do that .......

Did he ? You have the benefit of more media availability than me but the only thing I have read about drug testing was what you posted earlier .... "I have never tested postitive for any drugs" ... it didnt say when he was last tested or whether that test was random or scheduled ? Hardly a fair comparison. we are not and never have been paid employees of the club ... not even when the site was official and I would say that 99% of the posting members here fall into that category too. very true, and some of us can accept responsibility for them. Very little of that goes on now - the favoured route recently seems to be jail ! The most recent athlete to be involved in a scandal (running a dog-fighting ring), Michael Vick is being absolutely vilified in the media and is currently being sued by numerous banks and corporations for the return of money/loans as well as his employers suing him for part of his contract monies and thats before he actually gets sentenced in December ! He suggested he could do some work for PETA which was laughed at by most of the population ! I respect your right to support him, and to express your view, just cannot agree with you based on what I have read so far.

How magnanimous !!! Grudgingly accepting that he had to plead guilty after saying HE BOUGHT the drugs for ?40 ...... :symbol_exclaim01: :symbol_exclaim01: :symbol_exclaim01: Even if we were to believe/accept that others in his company that night may have used the rest of the drug and he was possibly preparing "the remainder" for subsequent use by himself or others as implied by the BBC article, the simple fact is that he has now admitted that he bought it, yet seems to think it is unfortunate that he has had to plead guilty. I was switching back and forth from the "support" camp to the "sack" camp earlier but that does it for me. The purchase and/or possession of the drug IS an offence whether you have used it or not and for him to think it unfortunate that he had to plead guilty shows there is little remorse other than the fact of being caught. If he had come out and said something like "sorry, it was a stupid mistake and I accept my actions were wrong" then maybe, just maybe there would have been a route back but not now ...... :sillywave: :sillywave:

this I would agree with

Are you qualified in IHE's profession and able to make that diagnosis ? If so, then maybe I can reinstate the comment. but to call someone a junkie, a liar, and a lunatic in the space of three sentences is over the top. If you have a problem with the moderation of this thread please contact one of the moderators of this board (as listed above) or myself using one of the methods laid down in the terms of site use. and to answer your question ... he didnt drive off, so "what if" scenarios are redundant !

OK - since none of the board moderators are about to step in at the moment, I am going to do so. Using the words "druggie", "junkie" and other derogatory terms to describe RH are bang out of order and go against our abuse/defamation rules. He has been convicted of possession of cocaine and that is it. There is nothing to suggest that he has an ongoing and regular "habit" that would allow the use of either of those terms (or others of a similar nature) as an adjective. By all means discuss this situation, express your opinions, and allow others to express theirs (preferably without calling them "a fud"), but we will summarily delete posts that we find to be abusive.

Not naive Mrs PB, but what made me doubt what I had heard previously was this portion of the article on the BBC Website "Police officers thought Hart was acting suspiciously in his BMW car and found cocaine placed on a CD at the Rock Ness Festival in June. He admitted a charge of possessing cocaine and was fined £300. Inverness Sheriff Court heard the midfielder had bought two half-grams of the drug for £80 and was in the process of using one of the wraps when caught. Police found the other wrap of the drug after a search of his car."

aha - wondered when someone would spot the deliberate mistake :023:

Its a free country when you stay within the laws of the land, when you fracture them you might be lucky and get away with it, or you might not. If caught, you pay the penalty. Having said that, I agree there are far worse crimes than using "recreational drugs" but at the end of the day its still a class "A" drug. Yes and No. As I said in my first post on this thread, if it were you or I who had been caught there would be no media interest and we might claim a paragraph in the Courier come sentencing time. Our employment status would be solely down to how our bosses viewed the incident as it is unlikely that it would have been in the paper as "<accused>, who works for <company>" but he is a professional footballer and his actions, like it or not, whether in his business or personal life will reflect on the club via the media. The club have issued a statement and gone as far as to reassure sponsors and corporate partners about their stance - that suggests that one or two might not be happy about being associated with the club if a firm stance isnt taken. It may not be fair to treat him differently to the treatment we might get, but then again, how many of us get some of the perks of life that a footballer gets ..... I would agree here. The role model thing isnt a big issue for me, but then again, I dont have kids and perhaps my viewpoint would be different if i did. Doesnt make it right. Its still an illegal class "A" drug and there are consequences if you are caught with it. The fact that others use it is a feeble non-excuse. Not scapegoating. he had it and from the reports it seems he was going to use it and he got caught. His employment status, as i mentioned above is down to his bosses and although he may get more harsh treatment because of his occupation and the fact that his actions are in the public eye, the simple fact is that the end result - whatever it may be - is a consequence of his actions, nobody elses. As I said above, my opinion keeps switching from support to sack and back again - I like him as a player, I think he can still do a job for us, but the question has to be whether his position is tenable or not. Can the club save face while supporting him given the firm stance comment ? or do they have to make an example of him? I really dont know the answer and I dont want to kick the guy when he is down but he has put many people in a very hard place. There are plenty of examples of top level players being given second chances after drink, drugs or other offences so maybe he could be fined whatever the maximum the club can apply is or maybe he has to go. I think on this occasion we really have to let the club decide the way forward and back their decision, whatever it may be.

If you are referring to my comment, I said personal life not private life. We have seen that players dont have a private life ! I like Richie Hart as a player, I still think he has a lot to offer the club, and I initially didnt think he needed to be kicked out for this mistake. However, after reading various online accounts from papers/media, I am no longer quite as sure and to be really honest, I would not like to be the person who has to make the final decision as I am changing my mind from support to sacking and back again every few minutes. Why am I swithering ? I guess its because at the time of the arrest, the impression was given that there was no case to answer and it was actually a case of "wrong place, wrong time". The club wisely supported him through that period, presumably thinking he might be exonerated but reading some of the reports online from various sources since yesterday, especially those that mention CDs and credit cards, it now seems that exoneration was never an option and much wool may have been been pulled over eyes and ears that wanted to believe. Reading between the lines of the club statement, it seems the decision may already be made and its just i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed ..... When the matter was originally brought to our attention, the club interviewed the player and given his responses agreed to leave the matter until the allegations were addressed in court. The club would like to reassure the club's commercial partners, supporters and the public that the club adopts a very firm stance in relation to the use and/or possession of drugs.

He has made a mistake in his personal life and accepted the consequences of that. As a professional footballer there will be (and has been) more coverage of this in the media than there would have been had it been one of us who had done it, and even though you could argue that the club's name has been brought it into disrepute, I would whole-hart-edly agree with the other posters who say give the lad a yellow card, and then some support. He has been through quite enough already and it would be wrong for the club or the supporters to kick him while he is down.

Brewster 2004/05 - P15, scored 5 2005/06 - P18, scored 6 2007/08 - P03, scored 1 Total - P36, scored 12. strike rate 33.33% and for comparison Bayne 2004/05 - P42, scored 7 2005/06 - P19, scored 2 2006/07 - P43, scored 8 2007/08 - P06, scored 1 Total - P110, scored 18. strike rate 16.36% Niculae 2007/08 - P9, scored 2. strike rate 22.22% McDonald 2007/08 - P6, scored 0. strike rate 0.00% McAllister 2004/05 - P04, scored 0 2005/06 - P18, scored 1 2006/07 - P24, scored 3 2007/08 - P02, scored 0 Total - P48, scored 4. strike rate 8.33% To be fair to McAllister, McDonald and even Bayne to some extent, it has to be noted that a lot of their appearances were as late game subs so the percentages may be lower than they would be if they had actually played full games !

Right Scotty how about Brew in terms of strike rate % while playing for ICT? I had that noted somewhere when we were discussing him as manager and/or McAllister's scoring rate .... its up over 40% too [edit - actually 33.33%]. Dont think anyone has ever doubted him as a player .... will see if I can dig it out .....

about as much as I laughed when Chick Young asked Gordon Strachan for a quick word and he said "velocity" :029:

maybe he has learned from his mistakes ...... I didnt think he was the right man for the job when appointed, (removing emotion and basing it mainly on his stint at DUFC) but I am happy to say he has done nothing so far to prove me right :004:

forgot to add ..... Appearances : 235 - strike rate 42.13%

Did a little number crunching on Denzil's goals ........ here are a few facts, and a copy of the list ..... He has scored against 26 different teams: Airdrie (4), Alloa (6), Arbroath (9), Ayr (10), Celtic (3), Clyde (4), Clydebank (1), Dumbarton (2), Dundee Utd (1), Dunfermline (1), Falkirk (9), Morton (5), Gretna (1), Hamilton (2), Hearts (2), Hibernian (1), Kilmarnock (1), Livingston (3), Partick Thistle (5), QoS (2), Raith Rovers (8 ), Rangers (1), Ross County (9), St Johnstone (1), St Mirren (7), Stirling Albion (1). 72 of his goals were in games we have won 16 of his goals were in games we drew 11 of his goals were in games we have lost 79 goals were league goals 20 goals were cup goals 67 goals were in the 1st division 12 goals were in the SPL 1 goal was in the Challenge Cup 8 goals were in the CIS (League) Cup 11 goals were in the Scottish Cup 55 goals came in (55) games where he scored once 28 goals came in (14) games where he scored twice 12 goals came in (4) games where he scored a hat-trick He has scored 4 goals in one game Of the current SPL teams, he has failed to score against only 3 - Aberdeen, Gretna, and Motherwell (although he has scored against Gretna in the league cup) .... yes, I know, too much time on my hands [attach=1] denzil.gif_thumb

oh dear .... re-gurgitating the jokes of Jim Traynor, how low can you go

we get slagged of for our tops looking like rangers or england cricket teams, do we need to add another level where people think we are a rugby team !!! St Mirren would have a field day if Tokely stepped out a Love Street wearing a 'rugby' top :015: :015: The PSG shirt isnt bad - has potential, although this season seems to be red/black ! [img width=500 height=333]http://www.psg.fr/fr/club/current_team_toplevel/800/PhotoEffectif20072008_HD.jpg this one isnt bad, but please ... NO NO NO to something like this

I seem to recall that there was a lot of grumbling that he was supposed to be getting a grand a week and his performances on the park didnt seem to warrant that. Over time, his performances got better as he settled into the team, he got used to his colleagues style of play and they got used to him and his style. At the time, it was plain to see that he was undoubtedly used to playing at a higher level than the rest of the squad and his vision and reading of a game was better than some (but not all) of our players. Some of the better players raised their game and some didnt but the only adjustment that seemed to take place was in Dunc himself. I think he realised that some fell into the "this guy knows where I want to play it to and will run into space" category and others didnt and he measured his passes or adjusted his play accordingly. There are a lot of similarities in that scenario with Marius. - He is undoubtedly a skillful player - many people have said that. - He is still not fully fit (seems to be taking a long time, but sure Brew will sort that out !). - Some of his play (that admittedly I have seen only on highlights) falls into the 'visionary' category. - He seems to be forging good partnerships/understanding with our more skillful players but its not quite there yet. One day - hopefully soon - this will click into place and he or other players (because of his assists) will go on some good scoring runs and we will then look back on here and wonder why we ever doubted him .... a bit like we previously did with Wyness and Dargo who also took time to get going.

Aberdeen are 5th seeds in this group so not expected to qualify. Anything they do will be a bonus !!! Seedings as shown below [attach=1] 1st Seed: Panathinaikos qualified after a 2-1 away win and 3-0 home win over Slovak side Artmedia Bratislava (heard of them before I think :015:). The Greeks came in at this round but Artmedia had to play two rounds to get here - winning on away goals against Moldovan side Zimbru (1-1h, 2-2a) in the first qualifying round and 3-2 over MIKA from Armenia in the second. 2nd Seed: Lokomotiv Moscow qualified after a 5-1 victory over FC Midtjylland of Denmark. Like Aberdee, Copenhagen and Panathainakos, the Russians entered at this stage but their opponents had previously beaten Keflavik (Iceland) in the first qualifying round (on away goals) and Finnish side FC Haka 7-3 in the second round. 3rd Seed: Atletico Madrid (Intertoto winners) qualified after a 4-0 home win and 5-0 away win over Turkish side Kayseri Erciyesspor (who were appearing for the 1st time in UEFA Cup). In the previous round, the Turks had seem off Maccabi Tel Aviv 3-1 and Atletico had won 5-1 against Serbian side Vovjodina. 4th Seed: Copenhagen qualified after a 1-1 draw with French side Lens and a 2-1 home victory (after extra-time) over them. Copenhagen came in at this stage but Lens had previously seen off Young Boys of Berne 6-2 in the previous round. 5th Seed: As we know, Aberdeen qualified after an aggregate score of 1-1 against Ukranian side FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk having entered at this stage. Dnipro on the other hand had to see off Polish side Belchatow 5-3 before going out to Aberdeen. Atletico are the spoilers for me ..... 3rd seed seems a lowly seeding and I tip them to top the group followed by Panathanaikos and Moscow. Copenhagen and Aberdeen to finish as bottom two - although, to be honest, a higher finish from the Dons would be perfectly acceptable to me and I will be wanting them to win their games.

maybe we could add Vladimir's "sporran" shorts and make ourselves look like real teuchters :rotflmao:

tend to agree with what a few folk have said already. Our "brand" is, or should be, red/blue vertical stripes in some form or another and we have had a few different types of stripes over the last few years ! I would say no to horizontal stripes (a.k.a. 'hoops' :018:) as not only do they look naff, but for the more rotund of us, horizontal stripes emphasise our beer fuelled curves :023: If we want to pay homage to the teams that preceded Caledonian Thistle, then we can do that using the away top. I agree that this season's black away top looks **** good, so perhaps the next version could be retro Red/Black verticals, and the one after that could be a bit more like our 1994/95 top .....