CaleyP

so staying behind after training and going to the gym longer than any of his team mates is lack of showing commitment is it?

Duff has a year left but wood was released yesterday.

butcher didnt give Vigurs one game, so there was no chance given for the player to prove himself.

Surely the media would have heard about up by now and be all over it Am still hoping its not true Well I can assure you it is true, the player is very disappointed with the decision made by the club. Surely it will be made public in tomorrows papers.

It is very true as it came directly from the player himself.

I think the club have really acted short sighted here not offering our only real quality player a contract. Now im not sure if Vigurs would have accepted a new one anyway but i would have liked to have seen us try and keep him. Anyway we have no young talent anymore so we have to buy in what we already had in Vigurs, I definitely do not agree with this choice of letting Vigurs go. Poor choice Butcher/Board. McBain offered one year today. kept the wrong player.

no depth to the squad plus i think vigurs will move on.

no the wages are same for the duration of the contract.

... You have no idea WHY he has left them out of the side though. He has thus far been a great manager; what a ridiculous thing to say without knowing the full story. aye and the same goes for you, i actually do know what and happened and i agree with johnboy on this one.

it all depends in what's written in their contracts, they could have a get out clause due to the fact that they came in january and the team were sitting bottom so relegation was always a possibilty. so it just depends on that really. I would be suprised though if butcher left as i doubt there will be clubs lining up to get him if we get relegated. Which club needs a manager??? I think TB will be very loyal to the club and at least see out his contract read my post again, i said i doubt butcher will leave, i think he will stay but i was also saying that there's possibly a get out clause in his contract if we go down.

Chill out man, Renegade has a right to ask what people's thought's are on the unfortunate event if we do go down. You have the right to reply to it or not, what you don't have is the right to dictate what people put on this forum. That's what a forum is all about. Personally i think it's a topic that is relevant and a fair one to ask.

it all depends in what's written in their contracts, they could have a get out clause due to the fact that they came in january and the team were sitting bottom so relegation was always a possibilty. so it just depends on that really. I would be suprised though if butcher left as i doubt there will be clubs lining up to get him if we get relegated.

aye the money side of things might be ok but if we go down we're not likely to keep any of the better players and may find ourselves down in division one for a wee while. ICT cant afford to lose on sat and that has nothing to do with the financial side of things.

Cant see richie hart being there and the fans dont want brewster there since he got us into this big mess Bayne Cowie :lol02: Wilson :huh: Robbo (with radio scotland) :huh: maybe donald park??? Pele??? why wouldn't Richie be there, a good few of his mates will be playing. I wish he was playing as a ICT player, never should have got rid of him. just as good as black on his day.

the definition of black on a well known on-line encyclopedia - Black is the color of objects that do not emit or reflect light in any part of the visible spectrum; they absorb all such frequencies of light. Although black is sometimes described as an "achromatic", or hueless, color, in practice it can be considered a color, as in expressions like "black cat" or "black paint". I work in the printing game, so believe me when I say it IS a colour.... B)

and after all that we're still a defeat away from relegation. not to much to argue really. here you go anyway. here's something for you to consider. brew managed to get 25points from his first 15 games which included the 3-2 win against celtic. butcher has his 15th league game in charge next sat and needs the win to take 23 points from his first 15 games. so with the aforementioned brew actually did better, look how he turned out. butcher has actually started off worse than brew did. brew took over the team from christie without a win.

well we'll see how good the inculpable butcher is next season then.

I really don't know what you're getting at... it doesn't matter where you get the points as long as they keep totalling up, no one is going to have a perfect record. He has done brilliantly to get us in a position to save our SPL status when we looked dead an buried after christmas. He has made a few mistakes along the way but that's understandable when he has picked up a team he probably knew very little about next season will be the time to judge Butcher as a manager but how you can blame him for where we are is beyond me im saying butcher as the manager deserves 50% of the blame. he will get praise if he keeps us up so why no blame if we go down. it's the same for any person in any job. people who want to put the blame elsewhere are just not willing to face the facts that we have a poor team and poor management.

I know what went on Harry . Why would Esson be dropped for the good of the team when he hasn't made any mistakes ? Maybe he's an erse who's disrupting the team spirit??? Who fecking knows but one thing I've learned from playing in a few different footie teams is the manager is ALWAYS right.... even when you disagree with tactics, decisions etc. you do exactly as he says because he is your manager!! What does a goalkeeper have to argue about anyway? He dives inside the sticks, kicks the ball out and tries to keep the defence right, other than that he should keep his mouth shut and get on with it because that is what he's paid to do. yeah so if the manager is always right, then that surely means if things go wrong like us possibly going down its the managers fault. appraisal and fault come hand in hand. people should realise that. everyone is comparing butcher to brew, well obvously he looks good then. but like brews, butcher's record isn't that great as a manager, infact they are very similar. esson shouldn't have been dropped. 23 points from 16 games... again, what exactly were you expecting?? I'll agree with you that Brew is culpable but how can you blame Butcher?? you obviously don't rate the guy, which is fair enough but I think you are clutching at straws i wasn't expecting much but i just think its the people who say how great he is that are clutching at straws. he has done well in some games but done awful in games he should have the team winning in. its no good getting points against the OF if he cant the get the team to beat poorer teams, that isn't signs of a good manager. surely you can see sence in that?

what, you mean not like the 3-2 win over celtic last year. brew has had these up and downs too you know. there is no difference between the two managers when it comes to their careers as a manager. i think they are both pretty bad.

Actually I think Butcher & Malpas will deserve some of the blame if we do get relegated. Given the situation when they came on board they achieved a minor miracle in getting us off the bottom. However, consistently poor team selections have taken us form the verge of safety back to the brink of relegation. We can't pin that on clueless Craig complately agree, at the end of the day it's football...it's simple one team has to score more goals than the other and its the managers duty to play his best 11 in the appropriate positions, if he does not do this then the manager has to take at least 50% of the blame and then same to the players. If people want to kid themselves and blame it on the board then go on but your just delusional. People need to wake up and realise this, butcher and brew both have done pretty poor jobs when you look at the actual facts which are the lack of points on the board from both managers. people just look stupid if they want to argue with facts. you could say butcher did well when he came first came in but now he has almost chucked it all away. he has to take a huge chunk of the blame as at end of the day it was his job to keep us up...NOONE elses. 23 points from 16 games since Butcher took over, including a win and a draw against either side of the old firm. I'm struggling to see what you're getting at... with that sort of points tally we would be in the top 6 if he was incharge from the start of the season. There has been a couple of dissapointing results but what are you expecting... perfection? It's my fault for not being at as many games as I should have at the start of the season and for backing Brew til the end :023: i I agree. How some people can slag off TB is unbelievible. Just cos a result doesnt go our way, look at what he has done since he arrived! IF WE STAY U IT WILL BE A DIFFERENT STORY EH. no it won't be as i have never thought butcher was a capable manager. look through all my post since butcher has come in, i have never jumped on the ban wagan, i don't rate him. he has been fired from too many jobs to be as good as people may think on here.

I know what went on Harry . Why would Esson be dropped for the good of the team when he hasn't made any mistakes ? Maybe he's an erse who's disrupting the team spirit??? Who fecking knows but one thing I've learned from playing in a few different footie teams is the manager is ALWAYS right.... even when you disagree with tactics, decisions etc. you do exactly as he says because he is your manager!! What does a goalkeeper have to argue about anyway? He dives inside the sticks, kicks the ball out and tries to keep the defence right, other than that he should keep his mouth shut and get on with it because that is what he's paid to do. yeah so if the manager is always right, then that surely means if things go wrong like us possibly going down its the managers fault. appraisal and fault come hand in hand. people should realise that. everyone is comparing butcher to brew, well obvously he looks good then. but like brews, butcher's record isn't that great as a manager, infact they are very similar. esson shouldn't have been dropped.

apart from the fact that ferguson and mouriniho are far superior managers in every right...no of course they couldn't have done better than terry butcher...I stopped taking what you were writing seriously after you mentioned butcher and malpas in the same sentence as the aforementioned. wow. for one they wouldn't just chuck any old player in any old position, that's called chancing your luck, they would play the best 11 available every week in the correct positions because that's what good managers do. butcher hasn't done this and it's his job to do so. butcher has to take blame if we go down full stop.

just to be annoying....The first thing about the colour black is that it actually isn't a colour; it is an absence of colour. Technically you can't get the colour black. If you did it would appear as a silhouette with no distinguishable features whatsoever.

can we afford any wages that are at the moment if we go down??