CaleyD

As per official website, pitch inspection due at 4:30pm. http://www.ictfc.co.uk/articles/20110202/ict-v-dundee-united-pitch-inspection_2208825_2283218

Glad to see Terry focus on young players with something to prove instead of older players looking to make a few quid before they hang up the boots. Don't necessarily expect to see these new signings getting automatic starts, but we've been lacking a little in the options department up front, and these new signings will hopefully help resolve that. At the moment we've pretty much got a team built around/set up to support Rooney as a lone striker, opponents are getting to know how we play based on our fairly limited options and bringing in a couple of unknown elements can do no harm.

We don't play a 4-5-1, it's a 4-2-3-1

We only really miss him when we lose games because that's when the defence tend to shoulder the blame for a poor performance and we can claim it wouldn't have happened if we had Duncan breaking down attacks further forward. In actuality, our defence has been pretty good for the most part...with or without Duncan in front of them...and it's probably more a question of, do we really need him? or, is he worth sacrificing in order to try and give us a bit more bite going forward? which is where we need all the help we can get to break this poor run. I think it's more of a judgement call related to tactics/formation as opposed to any reflection on Butchers thoughts of Duncans ability.

My take on the red card was that both players were guilty of raised hands in a "get out of my face" kinda fashion. Players shouldn't do it, but Maguire acting like he'd been skelped by Tyson was a clear (and successful) attempt at getting a fellow player sent off for what was really a nothing incident

He's actually listed on the Blackburn Rovers site as being a Striker, not a Midfielder.

Looks to me like this lad is just a slightly more beefed up version of Nick Ross who, possibly, has more of an eye for the goal. Will be interesting to see where he fits in and how he is used....and also if his arrival spells the end for any of our current squad.

ICT didn't make a mistake by signing Barrowman, they made a mistake in paying him the wages they were when he was unproven at SPL level. Signing a 2nd Division player on a wage which was comparable (actually a little higher) than we were paying an internationalist (Niculae) was asking for trouble and we got burned badly on it because not only did he not produce the goods, but he didn't provide so much as a penny in return for the investment. While Rooney is still on the books then we can't afford to be looking at another striker on that kind of money. Even if he was to leave, the club would be taking a big risk blowing whatever wages are made available on a single player....regardless of what level they are currently playing at. Can't see us looking to sign anyone much above the level of Tade and even loan signings aren't going to be anything more than lower end English Championship fringe/youth players who are looking to prove themselves. Our current league position isn't going to have other SPL teams falling over themselves to loan us anyone either....so success on that front is probably working slightly against us. Personally, I'm not as convinced as some of you seem to be that Rooney is off and still have a sneaky feeling he'll put pen to paper on an extension with us before the end of the season.

Interesting that you make the point about budgets......the SPL has the largest gap between the average wage of the best paid team and the average wage of the worst paid team in any single league in the world. The EPL has a ratio of something like 7 to 1 across a 20 team spread - The SPL has a ratio of around 31.5 to 1 across a 12 team spread. Basically in the EPL, for every ?1 earned by the lowest paying team, the highest paying team are getting ?7, in the SPL it's ?1 at the low end and ?31 at the high end. The next largest gap in wages in a single league is Serie A which is about 15.5 to 1......so the SPL are a longggg way out of touch with the rest of the sporting world. Hardly surprising then that we have a duopoly, but it is quite amazing that we come anywhere close to being able to compete with teams who's budgets are 10, 20, 30 times more than ours.

:hahaha: Just about choked on my coffee!!!

I don't see why they should be suspended. They were having what they believed was, and should have been, a private conversation and it should have been nobody else's business. I would say it was a far bigger crime to record someone without them knowing, and even worse to then place that recording in the public domain where they knew it would cause offence. There's not a person alive who doesn't hold a thought, view, opinion or who has made a comment in jest which someone else may find offensive. Should people be allowed to record us at will and place those views in public without our consent? Not justifying sexist opinions or views, but are these guys really sexist or were they just having a joke based around a "stereotype"...you know, in much the same way as we've all had a laugh at a Scotsman, Englishman & Irishman joke which played heavily on stereotype? We don't know and, given the circumstances, I think it would be dangerous to judge.

I guess the fact that ICT have, historically, been slow starters and strong finishers in the majority of our league campaigns counts for nothing then. The way some people are going on then Butcher should probably just right this season off and start preparing for next season....if we're really lucky we might just avoid relegation!!!

There's also the very real possibility that with the revised 10 team SPL1 and 12 team SPL2 that a fan could find themselves facing a higher season ticket price if their team got relegated or that a club being promoted from SPL2 to SPL1 could find themselves with a lower income from season ticket sales!!!

And if your Auntie had the balls she'd be your Uncle.....It's points on the board that count.

Not seen this mentioned elsewhere, but I noticed that Hayes got BBC's Goal of the Month from Chick Young - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/9370226.stm

Last I checked we were already in the top 6...it's therefore ours to give up and I'm confident we won't do that.

Thought we had an ok game considering the way Hamilton, once again, showed up to play in the expected game killing manner. I really do wonder how any group of players can go out there and do themselves such a disservice by diving, tugging/pulling/holding, tripping and climbing all over players in the box....it really is quite disgusting, and certainly not professional. It only makes it all the worse that the officials are so incompetent that they are constantly duped by it. Wasn't convinced by the penalty claim and we were denied 2 stone wallers, one involving Foran (I think) having to contend with a face full of elbows from Hamilton defenders clambering all over him and one from the shove in the back. Odhiambo has a decent enough first half but went totally off the boil in the second and was being so easily dispossessed and if not that then passing it to the opposition at every attempt. Although I will admit that whilst I have been critical of Odhiambo in regards to him not chasing, he was at least making some effort in that regard today....even if unsuccessfully. Will be tough for Terry not to give Sanchez a run of starts now, IMO. The lads grabbed his opportunity the last couple of games and shown he can, and will, make a positive contribution when out there. Kudos to Hayes today. He's just back from injury, came on and was given "the treatment" by Hamilton, but he never hid or shirked a single challenge. Duncan.....think the whole dynamic of the team changed when he came on, and changed for the better. He's a bit like that secret ingredient that never appears to do anything in itself, but take it out of the mix and you know instantly it's not there. Not convinced by Duff playing where he is. Can't put my finger on any one reasons why he seems so ineffective when played in the middle, but he is. As I said, don't think we did too bad under the circumstances and if their was to be criticism then it's perhaps the fact that we allowed Hamiltons antics to control the game....just not sure how you go about preventing it though.

Don't see why so many people are getting their knickers in a twist about it. All you do is start your season as early as possible (a 4 week break from previous season is sufficient, IMO), break for the World Cup and then pick up where you left off and play through to an end. Absolutely no reason why they should be looking to shift the entire football calendar to a summer league to accommodate the WC

I would start with asking him to produce the facts and figures to back his financial claims because from what I can gather nothing adds up........ TV Money Claims clubs would lose £1 Million a year from TV/Gate if we increase league size - For a start, half (or more) of the clubs aren't actually making £1 Million a year from TV, so how can they lose it? SPL have a 5 year deal worth £65 Million, that's £13 Million a year. OF take a third of that between them and the rest is divided based on league position and number of games they appear in. Anyone in the bottom 6 is unlikely to be taking home £1 Million in TV revenue. What is the new offer being put on the table by SKY-ESPN for a 10 team league and an SPL2? Does an offer actually exist? Why, as the only real bidders in the market place, would SKY-ESPN be offering up more money for less games being broadcast to narrower marketplace and, if fans vote with their feet, to fewer people? Surely they want a product that will sell, and a product that will sell is a product the customers want (see listening to the fans below) Other Money As I understand it, the figures for the money going to an SPL2 have been based on the SFL handing over half their income, but only a third of the teams to the SPL. Has this been agreed to, by who and when? You talk of "significant" reductions in the financial loss from relegation. Given that ICT lost £1.5 Million from it's turnover and other clubs could conceivably suffer larger losses (it;s not a fixed figure, but one based on club size/revenue of which we are amongst the smaller ones), then where is the money to come from to allow you to "significantly" reduce the burden? What's more, if you are taking away 50% of the SFL income in order to bolster the SPL2 then you have a bigger gap between the finances of the SPL2 and the SFL, will the same financial parachutes be on offer there and where is that money to come from? Has any consideration been given to what clubs sponsors & advertisers might think? Are they going to continue to pay what they do to advertise to a narrower market (fewer opposition teams) and potentially smaller crowds if fans vote to go elsewhere through boredom (see listening to the fans below). From there I would then start delving in to some of the other points which seem to have been overlooked or quickly cast over........ What would be the criteria (stadia, USH etc) for SPL2? Any restrictions on entry make the idea of Play-Offs as an additional money spinner absolutely null and void, they also throw the argument for a more competitive setup right out the window as you're taking the deciding factor for progress totally off the park and placing it squarely into the business side of the operation. What would be the criteria (stadia, USH etc) for SPL1? Same paints as above. Following on from the point on qualifying criteria, do you not think that it's damaging enough that we have one point of failure in that regard within the Scottish League System, why would you want to introduce a second? We have all witnessed clubs sending themselves to the wall as a result of speculating on promotion and spending more than they can afford on both the players to achieve that and the infrastructure required to secure entry to the SPL. Many of these clubs suffered during a time when their was far more money in the game than we have at present, so does it not seem like complete folly to be forcing this situation on clubs, especially on clubs far further down the ladder who are even less capable of shouldering the cost in leagues below the SPL where you have stripped out half their income? Where are the side by side comparisons? If you are so adament that 10 teams is the best, then you've surely done your homework on the pro's and con's of all the other league sizes. People aren't stupid, lay it out there for us in black and white and show us, let us understand for ourselves. Perhaps the most obvious question of all, why aren't you listening to the customer? Whilst I appreciate there's a market for selling people what they think they want (gimmicks), such things are generally short lived and football is not the marketplace in which to be peddling such wares (even tacky merchandise in club shops is becoming a thing of the past). In order to develop a long term, fincially stable business then you have to give customers what they want. Where would Ford be today if they had ever stuck to the principle that customers could have any colour they wanted, so long as it is black? We have the exact same situation here where you are telling your customers they can have any size league they want, so long as it's got 10 teams in it. A successful business is one which provides it's customers what it wants, a dead business is one which ignores it's customers and quickly finds they have moved on elsewhere....and in this day and age, where football is already on the verge of pricing itself out of the entertainment industry, it's not going to take much to turn away customers to the point where it becomes unsustainable and the quickest route to that end is not listening. How do your proposals benefit the game as a whole? What does it do to reverse the falling trend of good young Scottish players coming through our systems? If it comes down to a straight up choice between having a system that allows and encourages us to develop our own players, or one which is driven entirely by money, then I know where my vote would lie. Better to have a bit less money and see it being spent developing players in Scotland, than have more money and see it all being spent abroad. I appreciate the above is probably a waste of breath as we're all preaching to the converted on here, but I do intend to do what I can to push these, and any other questions that people come up with, through the channels where they can be collated with those of other fans and hopefully find their way to where they need to be and are being asked by someone with the balls to demand full and proper answers.

As I pointed out previously, he (David Sutherland) was one of the men behind the proposal back in 2006, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was still in favour of it - Link However, having looked at the STV report online from earlier, unless they have edited it from what went out on TV, then I think people are perhaps reading a lot more into what was said than is actually there. It could just as easily have been preceded by a statement wholly agreeing with Terry and all we have got is the tail end where Sutherland is saying...."Terry, the Board have got your back so you can concentrate on the football and leave the rest up to us".

Which is precisely what I said!!!!

Perhaps some inflatable wine bottles would be the ideal thing to show support for/agreement with Butchers statement.

Not really the main purpose of an AGM which is there to discuss matters arising in the running of the business/organisation in the previous 12 months and making any changes/proposals for the following 12 months (loosely speaking). I'm sure the subject will come up for discussion and members will be asking what is and can be done but the issue is one which would be served better by a meeting open to all fans, the club and anyone else with an interest in the subject....which a company AGM is not.

We have the Supporters Trust which comes under the larger umbrella of Supporters Direct who are the ones who put together, distributed, collated and presented the findings of the recent fans survey - full results of the survey can be hound HERE Supporters Direct in Scotland alone...... 34 Supporters' Trusts £3.5 million investment in football clubs 15,000 members approx. 25 Trusts with shares in their football club 14 Directors on Football Club Boards 300 Volunteer Directors 2 Re-formed Clubs (Clydebank FC & Gretna 2008 FC) 5 clubs saved for their communities due to supporters' trust interventions (Clyde, Dundee, Falkirk, Morton and Raith Rovers) That's a fairly impressive CV and one that continues to grow. As you can see, a vehicle definitely exist for the fans to get/add to the voice of influence they seek.....they just need to sign up and start making use of it via the Supporters Trusts attached to their individual teams. ICT Supporters Trust have their AGM tomorrow night (see stickied post) and new members are welcome to join on the night. Following that they will be having their regular football forum which will have a panel that includes Jonny Hayes and Lee Cox. Peter Murphy, Chairman of the Trust, has also agreed to sit on the panel and will hopefully be able to answer a few questions from what came out of his recent discussion with Neill Doncaster. I know the Trust aren't looking for the discussion forum on the night to be dominated by this subject, but I'm sure that if the need/want exists then they will look to hold a separate open meeting on the matter at some point in the near future.

Doncaster really is a master of saying lots without actually saying anything and avoiding the question. What's most frustrating though is that he's (Doncaster) is yet to face an interviewer/journalist who is willing/able to push the issues, question his (as yet) unfounded claims about how 10 teams are better and not allow him to just make flippant throw away remarks without backing them up. For all the meetings, and communication he claims to have had with people, we all still remain very much in the dark on how 10 teams is going to solve all the problems. Very interesting that his closing comment was about having one organisation looking after all teams....think we are perhaps getting to the crux of the matter in that the SPL wants ultimate control over the whole league setup and their proposals are more about that than anything else.