Charles Bannerman

Let's just simplify things and say that Mahonio comes from "Up ee rodd"!

So not much change then in 66 years and one month!

Een... I was at that tree palnting ceremony too (so Derek would have been there as well) but I wonder if it could have been a little later than 1958-59 because we were only in Primary 1 then. 1960, 61 maybe? After somebody mentioned some weeks ago here that the houses on Bruce Gardens and Caledonian Road at each end of LA are different, I took a look and indeed that seems to be the case. That does maybe suggest that the intention might have been to extend LA to Glenurquhart Road and Telford Street and the housing gap laft to do this wasn't filled until that plan was finally shelved, possibly some time during the 50s. In effect General Booth Road fulfils that function nowadays. When would that have appeared? Mid/ latter 70s maybe since we have run Harriers races along that road since early 78. I have been meaning to phone Sheila MacKay about this one but have kept forgetting.

What... the last ever REAL Caley v Jags Final? The last one I remember is the 1988 Qualifying Cup Final. Saturday 12.11.88. - Kingsmills Park - Jags 1 (Taylor) Caley 1 (Urquhart) Saturday 19.11.88. - Replay atTelford Street Park - Caley 0 Jags 3 (D MacDonald, Taylor, Skinner (pen)) Not nearly as entertaining as the one we've just had though!

12th man, I think you're right and here I'll also pay tribute to our rivals (and my good friends! :biggrin: ) at MFR. Certainly, what Radio Scotland is doing, as I understand it, is to give ICT live commentary on 92-95FM in the Highlands and Islands any time there is a second frequency available for football, even if it means the commentary is in place of Open All Mics. This means that on a Saturday afternoon, when we can split the national network into as many as five different strands, ICT fans in the North have the alternatives of commentary from their game on 92-95FM or following it as part of Open All Mics on 103.5-105FM which is available across the whole country. Just about the only situation where full commentary may not be available could be midweek or on a Sunday afternoon with just one frequency for football but it's been my experience that very few ICT games have not been available on air. There is also the online option of course.

Maybe this is the wrong place to post this and maybe it's been discussed elsewhere, but I feel I have to say how much better the site is following the upgrade which seemed to take place a week or two ago. It's fairly widely known among longer serving posters on here that I am no computer expert but the first thing I've noticed is that operating the site, which seemed to have become quite slow, has become a great deal quicker and more efficient. I also like the improved impact of the colour scheme and it in addition seems to be easier to go directly to making a reply right down at the bottom of any thread.

I happened to drive past the Clach Park today and couldn't help but be impressed by how neat and tidy it looks from the outside - or at least the part still owned by Clach. The exterior wall at the front of the ground has had a brand new coat of whitewash (or its modern equivalent) and looks really good. It would be even better if there were more advertising signs outside than simply two from Orion but I'm sure they're working on the commercial side. Add to that the disappearance of the eyesore which the Wineshed had become and it very much looks as if progress continues to be made down at Grant Street Park. Unfortunately the former Social Club, which has been taken over by the religious group, has had no exterior work done on it at all and looks a lot duller and really quite tatty with various bits of graffiti in comparison with the sparkling football ground.

Interthenet... Sorearse.... Calgacus. Mind you, that's going back quite a few years now!

Johndo.... I don't actually believe you can recall ANYTHING from the 70s!

Thanks Alex.

Apologies if this has been mentioned on one of the other threads which I haven't been through, but there IS full live Radio Scotland commentary tonight from Paul Mitchell and Craig Paterson on 92-95FM in the Highlands and Islands (that's 94.0FM in the immediate Inverness area) as well, of course, as online. This means that there's no Open All Mics available in the H and I but outwith that area, Open All Mics is available (Allan Preston at Easter Road) on 92-95. Also looking ahead to the St Johnstone game (2pm KO), there will be full live commentary with Scott Davie and CHRIS HOGG on Highlands and Islands 92-95FM and online as well as Open All Mics for the second half only (ie after 3pm) from me on 92-95 in the rest of the Radio Scotland transmission area.

Thanks Alex... that's just the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I'm afraid trawling through websites is not one of the stronger points of this computer illiterate! I have no recollection at all of the 6120 game but do do remember the 5846 which contributed in a big way to ICT's difficult start to that season back in D1. Buckett... I'm sure that one, if not both, of these fouls was a hefty elbow from Sandy Ross! I also think they happened within about 20 yards of each other round about the middle of the park.

As far as I am concerned, having both ICT and Ross County in the SPL next season would simply be the next step on the Highland football journey which began in 1994 when the injustice of decades was atoned for and both these clubs were rightly elected to the Third Division. There is absolutely no doubt that the two clubs coming in together was a great thing for them both. Not only did the competition between them in the early years do a lot for the quality of the start they had in the national leagues, the crowds they both got even for quite ordinary games showed the national establishment that Highland involvement was long overdue. In the case of derbies, by 1997 these were comfortably exceeding 5000 and setting huge new Division 3 records as these games rolled up. As a result there is already substantial evidence that County and ICT being in direct competition is a positive thing so that established principle is not suddenly going to change if this happens again in the SPL. I realise that a number of ICT fans seem to think that having Ross County also in the SPL would be bad, but I really see that as cutting your nose off to spite your face. The benefits are just too huge, ranging from a definitely positive financial one to a much higher profile for the game in the North. I have even heard very ungenerous suggestions from some ICT and Ross County fans relating to people who already complain bitterly about having to travel up the A9 to Inverness! Just to return to the OP - I'm not 100% sure what the record crowd for a Highland Derby is, but I actually wonder if it dates from the early seasons in D3 and not from the later period in D1 when attendances had begun to drop away again. I've been doing a bit of checking and the first ever Highland Derby in the SFL in Dingwall on 27.8.94. attracted 3157. That was followed by the lowest ever of 2440 at Telford Street on 29.10.94 and the highest for that first season was also at Telford Street - 3562 for a 3-0 CT win on 6.5.95. which was a sort of response to that week's announcement that Baltacha was leaving. In the second season (95-96), attendances were generally higher and I have a wonderful memory of the postponed New Year derby at Telford Street in January 96 (1-1 - Colin Milne equaliser after Iain Stewart opened) where the 4931 was actually the third biggest Scottish crowd on a night which also had an SPL card. This also meant that the record wasn't actually broken again in the first derby at the Caledonian Stadium where a slightly reduced 4562 watched Iain Stewart score a double without reply, with Barry Wilson also in his usual form v County. The figure went above 5K when 5017 attended a 3-0 victory in Dingwall (Maclean 2, Wilson) on 12.2.97 while new ground was again broken in the final derby of D3 championship season when Stewart on either side of Thomson produced another 3-0 on 15.3.97. in a game when Sandy Ross completed his back to back red cards for carbon copy fouls on Richard Hastings at the new stadium. This one was watched by 5525 fans. I can't RECOLLECT any crowd bigger than that in the subsequent D1 encounters. However I don't have easy access to more recent versions of the kind of stats I have just retrieved from the magnificent bound booklet Ian Broadfoot produced, cataloguing the first two seasons and which I found in my box of source materials for Against All Odds. (A right wee Aladdin's cave that lot, which I must rake through in the quiet time running up to New Year!) So if anyone could confirm or deny that the 5525 is actually the Highland Derby record, I would be very grateful.

As I will be saying in my Sportsview column in the Highland News when it comes out later this afternoon, Caley Thistle's decision not to implement this for the moment is entirely predictable. (I also think it is absolutely correct.) And yes, Ross County would have to provide 6000 covered seats before they could start to provide safe standing areas so it's of little use to them either. But to return to ICT, it is understandable that a number of fans would like to stand (although we also heard that several wanted to sing but the subsequently provided Singing Section has barely been used.) However in order to meet this demand it is unrealistic to go to the expense of providing safe standing at almost three times the cost per seat compared with those which are already there. I am interested that "Caley" is of the view that 750 extra OF fans and 100 fans of other clubs would come in as a result of any implementation. Two questions there. How does Caley know this - could he please show us his market research? Also, in addition to the safe standing accommodation he presumably wants in the home end, what would the club do with the 650 safe standing places for visiting fans left unused for the 16 home games per season when the OF are not involved? The bottom line has to be that Caley Thistle is finding it difficult enough to fund ordinary activities without going to considerable extra expense which is unlikely to bring in any more revenue. The current TCS crowd limit is 7750 which nowadays tends to be approached but no more, and that only for three OF visits. As a result there is also no point in creating extra capacity which would never be used. Nor is it financially realistic to rip out perfectly good seats and replace them with even more expensive safe standing for fans who already use the seats. The fundamental problem goes back almost 20 years now to when the SPL decided voluntarily to implement what in Englald the Taylor Report caused to become law, and also to insist on a nonsensical 10,000 seats. ICT can take much or the credit for the reduction of that pie in the sky figure to 6000 but the SPL have this week missed out on a golden opportunity to reduce this further (which would also have helped Ross County.) So Scottish football is saddled with a gross over provision of seats and with that a number of very disgruntled clubs such as Partick Thistle and St Mirren who have had to go to a lot of expense to no purpose whatsoever. As a result it seems to me that the SPL has painted itself into a corner on this one and even if it does in principle allow safe standing areas, a lot of clubs won't have the need, the resources or the space to implement them. I agree that there is a significant desire among fans to stand but it seems to me that the policies of the last 20 years or so are likely to leave that desire largely unrequited.

That was Scott BYRNES and I wouldn't be surprised to see that story contradicted by tomorrow. The question I would be asking is that, given that there would inevitably be some kind of cost implication, where is a club which is really on the tightest of budgets going to find the money to implement something which is not going to bring in any more cash, given that even the existing 7750 capacity is never filled?

You could almost say that there's a four variable equation to quantify success among Scottish football clubs. Success = Available funding + Relative disadvantage dependent on distance from the Central Belt +/- The effectiveness of the management team +/- The luck factor. However the Available Funding variable also includes components, which only apply to the Old Firm though, to account for the money a club gains as a result of attracting Gloryhunters and from being a focus for the West Central Scotland Sectarian problem. Outwith the Old Firm, these components = 0. For a number of reasons, ICT is not a substantially funded club. It is also significantly disadvantaged by location since that makes it more difficult and expensive to attract personnel. As a result, ICT looks fundamentally to me like a club whose natural place is bottom three in the SPL. However, historically it has done better than that for much of the time since 2004 thanks often to good management and AT TIMES to a bit of luck although it's difficult to see the "luck" term in the equation having anything other than a negative value this season!

The entire bill is an absurdity which shows that the Scottish Executive either simply don't understand the real problem or don't want to acknowledge what it is. Football is merely a symptom of this problem and not the problem itself. It strikes me as nonsensical that football is being made almost the sole target here while the Orange Lodge - a body which exists for the purpose of religious intolerance - remain free to peddle their bile on the streets of Scotland. Fortunately all we really see in Inverness is the bunch of comedians who turn up for the annual stroll to the Portland Club but elsewhere it's a case of bigotry on the hoof for days on end.

In your customary and predictable rush to be negative and critical... have you actually properly checked whether or not what Mahonio is saying does in fact make consistent sense?

Agreed absolutely! I was through there today and it was quite incredible how County went behind twice whilst totally overwhelming what was still a pretty decent Raith team. Then County took complete control and got the win they thoroughly deserved. It's interesting how often journalists from the south come up to Dingwall with visiting teams and the comment is almost universal to the effect that County are by far the best side they have seen in the 1st Division. The only thing that's restraining me here is that a certain BBC colleague of mine two seasons ago said that he expected Dundee to "skoosh" this division and.... well we all know what happened! But the way things are looking at Victoria Park really tempts me to go along that road, although I'm resisiting it! The bottom line (literally) though is that, 17 years on from breaking the central belt SFL Protection Racket, it would be absolutely wonderful to have two Highland clubs meeting in derbies in the SPL!

Yes... sick enough to have died in the early 1920s.

This will be remembered by generations of Invernessians as a popular watering hole (and it still is I think)down by the river near the first of the bridges through the Islands from the Bught to Island Bank Road. However, a BBC colleague of mine has been doing some research into the title to the land in the Bught area in relation to its possible use for the bypass and came up with something called "The Colonel's Well". The Colonel will be very likely Col Warrand (of Warrand Road fame) whose executors sold the Bught Estate, on which the well is situated, to the Town Council in 1923 for a modest ?11,250. The debate now is whether or not this is Common Good land but it's the well which fascinates me. The most obvious solution is that the two - Colonel's and General's - are one and the same well but local folklore and usage has afforded a bit of promotion to our gallant friend, but I suppose there may conceivably be two wells. Does anyone know anything about this?

Oh well, looks as if we'll just need to pursue our two very different approaches to the manner in which this thread has developed. * I'm merely responding to very enlightened and informed comments from the likes of Dead Ball Specialist, SMEE, 12th Man Jo di Maggio and Alex MacLeod. * You just continue to "heid the ba' Jimmy."

I've just Googled the words of the Soldiers' Song and what I saw, although a clear reference to Ireland's battle for freedonm from the UK, is essentially no more offensive than that Anglophobic dirge which is Flower of Scotland - except that the Soldiers' Song glorifies a period within the last century as opposed to something that happened 700 years ago. Regarding the kind of chants you get from Celtic fans and from Rangers fans, the triumphalist cr@p that tends to pour from the Orange ranks most often refers to the expulsion of the Catholic James II and VII of both England and Scotland(not just England) in the period 1688-91. Strangely enough, though, although there was fighting in Scotland here such as at Killiecrankie, most of the rhetoric refers to Ireland with Derry's Walls and the Boyne. Mary, by the way, who died in 1695 after a period of joint monarchy and left King Billy to reign on his own for the next six years, was the Catholic James' Protestant daughter and elder sister of Anne who succeeded Billy at which point the Act of Settlement provided for a Protestant succession in perpetuity. Charles II, James' older brother, is thought to have converted to Catholicism when he died in 1685. In contrast, the Republican stuff concentrates largely on the fight for Irish independence from 1916-22 and also the divisions which persisted after that because the Anglo Irish Treaty provided for the counties of Ulster to remain as part of the UK. Given the role of the British military during that period there is inevitably a lot of resentment involved. But the bottom line has to be that it's completely absurd that Scotttish football should have the albatross of Irish religion and politics hanging round its neck in the manner in and extent to which it does. Mind you it's equally absurd that, despite recent indication of minor liberalisation, Catholics should still be prevented from occupying the throne of the UK. The main reason now for that is apparently that the monarch has to be the head of the Church of England. That is even more absurd... almost as absurd as having a monarch at all.

I was thinking the same thing myself. Isnt the use of terracing banned in the SPL? it was surprising to have the away fans over that section which has got 80 or 100 or so seats in place although as you could see most were standing. Then later on in the afternoon Motherwell fans were thrown out of Pittodrie by police... for standing!

Yes, what Scotty says is largely correct, apart from the 208 downloads actually being about 10% of the print run since 2000 were originally done. But they've all gone and indeed are in very short supply.