DoofersDad

Well, who would have thought it. A Hampden crowd cheering an England goal and Scotland, whilst beating Malta slipping down a place in the table. But still, the key thing is that with Slovakia losing, Scotland's fate is in their own hands - win their remaining games and they make the play offs. Scotland's match next month against Slovakia should be an absolute cracker

The only ranting seems to be coming from the likes of you complaining about the fact that those associated with the club are taking some actions against a handful of idiots whose behaviour damages the club. What Fraz is saying seems to be very much the same as me and others. The overwhelming reaction form older fans is simply one of sadness that the actions of a small number of idiots is harming the reputation of a lot of decent young folk who have been giving great support to the club. Of course the youth are the club's future! That is why it is important that actions are taken which mean they can continue to give enthusiastic support to the club without getting sidetracked into behaviour which which both damages the club and which might have serious implications for the youngsters themselves on a personal level. I don't know what your agenda is but the fact is that any suggestion that anyone in the club is trying to alienate the youth could not be further from the the truth.

It doesn't sound as though you have taken anything on board at all. You say "some of which they know fine well didn't do any damage." but my post was all about the fact that this is not just about the damage. It is about behaviour in general and the absolute need for the bus driver not to be distracted. I acknowledge that you have not defended the actions of anyone on the bus and I assume from that that you at least acknowledge some folk behaved inappropriately. What you seem unable to appreciate is the seriousness of this. I am sure you accept that sanctions must be taken against anyone causing malicious damage but the more pertinent issue here is what actions should be taken against those whose behaviour was not in any way malicious but which, nevertheless, was inappropriate and inadvertently put people at risk. My knowledge of events is only what I've read, but whatever the truth of what went on is, the key consideration here must be to ensure that this kind of thing does not happen again. It is clear that there are some at least for whom a ban is completely justified. It may be that there are several youngsters who got sucked into the bad behaviour by peer pressure and perhaps against their better judgement. It would be a great shame if they got banned when a talking to and getting them to appreciate the potential consequences of such behaviour might well do the trick. But then again, some of these lads may well have been warned before for all I know. What I do know is that the actions of the club and the Travel Club will be aimed at ensuring that safe travel is available for people who wish to support the team. If some innocent lads are being unfairly banned then the fault for that lies squarely with the morons who caused the trouble in the first place. The club tries to provide a service which offers as cheap and convenient transport to games as possible. Remember, people give up their own time to organise this on a voluntary basis for the benefit of others. If you want to use the service, you abide by the rules. That's the deal. And please don't spout that cr*p about the club losing a group of fans for good. If the club has lost a small handful of morons then good riddance to them. The genuine fans amongst the youngsters will keep coming to the games - because that is what fans do.

But it's not just about the damage. I don't know what the Travel club have decided or why, but there are general points which apply in any situation like this. The driver is responsible for the safety of everyone on board and for other road users. If the driver is briefly distracted then disaster can result. One only has to think of the tragedy down South recently when 13 people died in a minibus crash when it appeared that the driver did not realise soon enough that the lorry in the motorway lane in front of him was actually stationary. I personally had a narrow escape a few years back when stationary at traffic lights on the A9 Spey Bridge at Kingussie. The driver of a coach behind did not realise the traffic was stopped until too late. The driver slammed on his brakes whilst I looked in my mirror with increasing concern / horror about whether the coach was going to stop in time. As it happened, the last of the traffic going in the other direction had passed and the driver was able to move into the other lane and finally stopped level with me. It was a very scary incident with my life literally in the coach driver's hands. Whether people are guilty of damaging the bus or not , over exuberant behaviour, even when good natured can be distracting for the driver and puts people at risk. Most people understand that, but it seems that some of the youngsters have yet to grasp that simple truth. D&E may not have banned anyone but they may well have told the Travel Club that they will not be hiring out buses to us if there is any repetition of that behaviour. As for the mess: if I gave someone a lift and they left empty cans and bottles and chip papers (and probably a few chips) strewn around my vehicle, you can be pretty sure I wouldn't be giving them a lift again. I don't see why D&E should be expected to tolerate such ignorant and disrespectful behaviour The more mature and sensible lads amongst our young support will appreciate that the club and the travel club have absolutely no option but to take firm action here. I fully accept that some lads who are generally innocent of the bad behaviour may be affected by this, but the only people who are responsible for that are the the moronic ring leaders of the trouble. It is to them they should direct their grievances. Of course, if 30 are being banned from travelling with the Travel Club, that should be enough to hire their own bus and take the responsibility for that. They just might see things differently then. What a shame that the great job many of the youngsters are doing in providing enthusiastic vocal support for the team should be ruined by a small number of d*ckheads. Get rid of these morons lads, and get back to doing what you do so well.

It's not that bad. From Scotland's perspective it makes no difference if Slovakia win or draw. A draw would be fine for Scotland so you don't have to hope for an England win. In fact, a draw would be the best result for Scotland as it also opens up the possibility of catching England and actually winning the group. Given the way England laboured against Malta on Friday, a boring draw is maybe the most likely result.

France were held to a draw at home tonight by Luxembourg. Just goes to show that the unexpected can happen. Provided Slovakia don't beat England then Scotland's fate is in their own hands. Their game against Slovakia in October would be a massive game, but win that and they should reach the play offs. Kenny apart, is there genuinely so little enthusiasm amongst Scots for these qualifiers or is that you simply can't admit there is a game of football you don't want the English to lose?

Come January, Carl may think that if he wants to play Premiership football next season, the better option would be to stay where he is. On the other hand, my head tells me that's about as likely as Kim Jong-Un being awarded the Nobel Peace prize this year. If given the opportunity to move OTB I am sure he would jump at the opportunity to join his mate Draper. They were, after all, together at Macclesfield before coming here just a year apart.

A convincing win for Scotland tonight. So often, Scotland have nearly reached a major championship finals but in the end have narrowly missed out. I wonder if this time, after having been written off by just about everybody, they will pull off a surprise and make it through? It seems that Strachan has finally understood that having Celtic players as the core of the squad has the advantage that they know each others game and that this makes the whole team a more cohesive unit. However, even with 7 points from their last two games Scotland would almost certainly finish 3rd and therefore they have to beat Slovakia at Hampden in October. They really should beat both Malta and Slovenia, so beating Slovakia as well would give them 20 points. With 20 points Scotland could theoretically win the group but that would require a highly unlikely sequence of events. 20 points would almost certainly be good enough for the play offs should they finish second, but 20 points might well see them finish 3rd. Assuming Slovakia beat Malta and lose to Scotland then Slovakia would need to beat England on Monday to finish ahead of Scotland. That would give them 21 points. Two wins or a win and a draw against Slovenia and Lithuania would also put England over the 20 point mark.. But a win and a loss in their last 2 games would leave England level with Scotland on the 20 point mark. Should Slovakia draw against England then they would end on 19 points - one behind Scotland. This would put England on 18 points so a win against either Lithuania or Slovenia would see them topping the group. The key game is therefore on Monday when England host Slovakia. If Slovakia fail to win then Scotland's fate will be in their own hands. A win for England would put them already on 20 points with a vastly superior goal difference to Scotland. A draw would therefore give Scotland an outside chance of winning the group in the event of England then slipping up against Slovenia and Lithuania. The fact that Scotland could finish equal 1st or 2nd with England means that goal difference is decisive. Scotland should therefore be looking to score as many as possible against Malta on Monday whilst hoping Slovakia don't beat England If Slovakia fail to beat England, and Scotland beat Slovakia next month, then Scotland should reach the playoffs. Monday should therefore be one off those rare occasions when Scots don't want England to lose!

Dougal is right when he says people have been warned time and time again. Previous incidents have led to this kind of discussion on numerous occasions. In all those discussions I cannot recall a single person ever suggesting our supporters should "sit quietly". Time after time, old "fuddy duddies" like me make a point of saying we love the atmosphere the lads create. If there wasn't a rogue element amongst them, I have no doubt that more youngsters would join in and the atmosphere would progressively improve. And the more people who join in the vocal support, the more likely others are to join in. Some of these youngsters don't seem to grasp the fact that engaging in the type of behaviour which occurred on Saturday could result in them getting a criminal record. That could then have serious implications for them when they start looking for a job. The club and us "fuddy duddies" don't want decent lads getting sucked into wrong kinds of behaviour with all the implications it may have for them. That is why the club's firm line is to be applauded. Nobody here is against the young crew. We are very much for them which is why they have been warned time and time again of the consequences of their behaviour. Stewarding may be heavy handed from time to time but you can hardly complain about stewards and police evicting people from the ground when a criminal act has taken place. And time and time again, when stewarding has genuinely been heavy handed, the "fuddy duddies" come to the defence of the youngsters and in some cases have personally intervened. It is rather sad to see that utterly pathetic statement which was posted above. If any of the lads involved in that group are genuine fans of the club they will not associate themselves with that statement. Genuine fans of this club will come and support it. Genuine fans who give great vocal support to the team will always be welcomed by the club and their fellow fans of all ages. It is only the tiny number of Idiots who break the law, who put their so called mates at risk of legal sanctions and who damage the reputation of our club who are not welcome. Instead of playing the victim, it is high time that the majority of decent lads stood up to the idiots and stood up for the club.

A very interesting move down South with Marvin Johnston moving from Oxford to Middlesbrough for an undisclosed fee thought to be somewhere between £2-3million. The interesting bit is that when Motherwell sold Johnson to Oxford they apparently managed to include a 25% sell on clause. That means that Motherwell will now get up to £750,000 in their coffers for a player who isn't on their books. That is good business. With our fan base, we are always going to have to accept that when players develop here they will be looking to move on. It should perhaps be a policy for the Board to look to include a sizeable sell on clause when selling younger players with the potential to develop further.

You are wrong. Aberdeen, Motherwell and County for example, were all formed from mergers albeit in the dim and distant past. ICT is perhaps the only one in living memory but (I think it important to note) not in the living memory of a significant and growing percentage of our supporters. Nobody is trying to ignore the past. Far from it - I think the past should be celebrated. But it needs to be celebrated in the right context. As someone with no particular affiliation to either of the pre-merger clubs the fixation some folk seem to have with the club favouring the legacy of one of the old clubs or the other is like a millstone round the neck of the club. It is a bit like a 23 year old still living at home, being expected to ask his or her parents' permission before they can do anything and always being known as their parents' child rather than a person in their own right. Good parents let their children go and allow them to develop their own identities.

I think last season he often played when he was injured and that resulted in some performances below the level you would normally expect from him. Don't forget that he started the season well and featured well in the POTY polls. I certainly wouldn't criticise him for last year, but this year is quite a different matter.

The sad thing is that the young crew bring a lot of much needed enthusiasm and atmosphere to the crowd when they behave within the boundaries of acceptable behaviour. When they do that, they have great fun, the rest of the fans enjoy the atmosphere they create and the guys on the park appreciate the support. But there will always be a small minority who either have no idea where the boundaries are or a simply hell bent on causing trouble for some reason or other. When they do that, there are others who either follow like sheep or join in because they aren't mature enough to resit the peer pressure. The more sensible lads then stay away because they don't want to get sucked into any trouble. Get rid of the tiny number of ring leaders, the sensible ones will return. Keep the behaviour within the boundaries and everyone's a winner. But just to get a bit of balance here, it is not just the young lads whose behaviour is not always within the boundaries of acceptable behaviour. Some of the abuse shouted at players, officials and opposition fans by much older fans would get them evicted if they behaved like that in their care homes. It is not a good example. When some of our more senior fans behave in such a disrespectful way and escape any kind of censure, is it any wonder that the youngsters choose to break through the boundaries too?

There are more important things to address in the immediate future but I must admit I have a lot of sympathy for what you are saying. Whilst not wishing to belittle the achievements of the 2 former clubs or to underestimate the place they have in the hearts and memories of those who supported them, one does sometimes wonder when ICT will ever be seen by some as a club in it's own rights rather than as a hybrid of two now defunct clubs. Whilst the creation of our club is a fairly recent thing, we are far from being the only club in the Scottish League set up that has been formed as a result of a merger. There is nothing obvious in the names and stadia of those clubs that attempts to preserve the identity of the old clubs in the new and we should be no different. Perhaps with the club's 25th anniversary approaching that will be the opportunity to finally give the club an identity wholly of it's own. It would also be a good opportunity to establish a club museum where all the memorabilia from Caledonian and Thistle which Caman refers to could be proudly displayed.

It is true that a lot of players and the team as a whole get judged on their last performance. All players have games when they are significantly better or worse in one game than their usual level. I think the situation with Polworth may be different though. He was actually better against Morton as well as the Brechin game. With the introduction of Trafford, the manager has put him playing in front of Trafford and Vigurs and this is freeing him up to do what he does best. In addition, Trafford looks to have a more positive mindset than Draper and the ball is being played to Polworth where he likes it. I'm optimistic that the improvement in Polworth in the last 2 games is here to stay.

Thanks, Liz. That's a very encouraging response. I think folk need to take particular note of Liz's statement that she only joined the Board last year and therefore she should not be held accountable for any shortcomings people may perceive in CJTs activities in recent years. Full marks to Liz for being prepared to take on the difficult work involved in trying to get CJT up and running again. She deserves our support for taking this on. We really need to put any failings of the past well and truly behind us. It is in the interest of any football club to have an active and representative fans group, but particularly so for ICT as we have the gift of a 10% voting stake in the affairs of the club. But a successful and representative supporters group requires much more than the hard work of a small handful of people who are willing to give up their own free time. It needs fans of all ages and backgrounds to do their bit. Whether it is simply clicking on the agree or disagree button on a proposal posted on line, or standing for the Board, or a host of things in between, we all have it in our power to help make CJT the success it needs to be in order to help the club achieve the success we would all like it to achieve.

I have no problem with OFW holding out until he gets a contract he feels is right for him. However, until then, he has a contract with us and it is reasonable to expect him to play for us if the manager asks him to. If he keeps saying he's picked up a niggle in training the day before a game then increasingly other clubs are not going to offer him a new contract. His behaviour is bizarre and self destructive.

Fair comment. I agree that it would have been better had it happened at the other end of the park - but it's still funny!

It ought to be, but all too often that is not the case. It depends what clauses are in the contract. The contract needs to assume that the employee is far from the person you think they are when you first employ them. One gets the impression that some recent contracts have not been too clever in this regard. It's bit like a pre nuptial agreement. It might seem rather contrary to the spirit in which you enter a relationship, but without one you can find yourself in big trouble if things don't work out.

I know that Don has made strong criticism of CJT previously. I am not particularly bothered about the history of the organisation but I am concerned about the future. The club is going through a critical rebuilding phase and there is a potential for some close shareholder votes which might shape the future of the club. If CJ T has a 10% voting stake then it is essential that the legitimacy of CJT to use that vote is beyond challenge both from a legal standpoint and in its representation of the fans views. It is clear that currently CJ T fails on both counts. It is therefore essential that the work Liz refers to addresses the points Don makes and we need an early and detailed response to his points to ensure that the functionality of CJT satisfies the legal requirements. Beyond that, we need to ensure CJT has mechanisms in place which actively seek the views of its members. Whether that is done by current CJT Board members or by a new Board will depend on the willingness of others to put their names forward to serve. It is always easy to criticise others, but a lot harder to actually do the work yourself. If supporters want the 10% voting stake retained then it is up to us all to play our part in ensuring that the future CJT Board fulfills its obligations better than it has in the past.

love it!

What is OFW up to? At the Q&A session Robbo said that OFW had received several offers but has turned them all down. Seemingly he wants a move to the States. He has been asked to play for us on a couple of occasions but apparently picked up injuries in training the days before. He had however told the Welsh management that he was fit for the World Cup qualifiers. (Robbo kept a straight face when telling us this - well, almost). It now turns out that he's not been selected for the squad! FFS. If he wants to be choosy about a contract and if he wants to play for his country, then he needs to prove on the park that he is worth it. If he is not playing, then he'll be lucky to be offered a contract any better than Ridgers has got with us. Currently, that is more than he deserves.

It was evident from the meeting that Danny is the right man to be the COO. He can talk for heifer and heifer!

No. I do not think that they are not signed up to the new Chairman's approach. I simply do not know. I am not casting aspersions, I am simply pointing out that those Board members who were there last night and who were on the Board during the Cameron era, simply did not engage. It was up to them to provide the evidence that they were fully supportive of the new Chairman's approach and they failed to take the opportunity to do so. Hopefully they will provide evidence of their proactive support for the Chairman's approach in the near future. Fan representation on the Board was not specifically raised. The Chairman said early on that he had already had discussions with some people about improved channels of communication with the fans. I am sure his thoughts on this will be communicated soon and that would presumably indicate an appropriate route to raise the issue of fan representation on the Board. I absolutely agree with you that it seems like a good idea.

At last night's meeting, John Robertson gave some interesting comments around the signing of players and his attitude towards developing the youngsters. Firstly, on the negative side, he echoed the Chairman's earlier comments about the budget being around £1 million less than last year. That obviously makes recruitment difficult when current players are already on relatively high earnings. Location is also a major problem and he said that there had been several players who had turned down offers because they wanted to stay in the central belt where there would be numerous clubs in commuting distance of where they live. He mentioned one that signed for a Division 1 side rather than move. He says that he has been helped by a scouting network he has. He talked about the mental fragility of a lot of players. They are nervous about making mistakes and he used this to explain why the team seemed to lose a bit of their drive once we got into the the lead against Morton. It was far removed from complacency or sitting back and defending the lead; what I understood he was saying was that players get anxious when they get into the lead because they will be criticised more for not winning if the have gone into the lead first. This perhaps highlights both a nervousness about the expectations of results here and, on a personal level, the fact that for many of our players, they know they need to succeed here for their careers to develop. Related to that, he talked briefly about the difference between what he sees on the training ground and what happens on the park. I guess the unsaid message there was for the fans to go easy on some of the players because he knows what they are capable of, and having fans on their backs all the time just piles more pressure on them makes it more difficult for them to perform to the level they do in training. His attitude to youth follows on from that. "if they are good enough, they are old enough" is what he said. He explained why he was keen on getting the kids out on loan to HL clubs and supportive of the idea of getting a colts team in the HL. He is wanting to toughen the kids up and put them under pressure by playing with men in games that really matter. He said that a few of the new recruits (Calder, Elsdon, Chalmers - I think, and maybe others) had never played a first team match before they came here! Think about it! What a culture shock it must be to find yourself in front of a vocal crowd and see your name in the paper as making a mistake that cost your team the game. These new recruits need time to get used to these new pressures and he is confident that as they do, they will develop well. Similarly, getting that first team experience rather then playing in the development league will toughen the kids up and make them ready mentally for first team football when they are good enough to be picked. It all made a lot of sense to me. Danny spoke really enthusiastically about how good some of the young kids coming through are. There does seem to have been a bit of a disconnect in recent years and lads seemed to have moved on elsewhere, but he felt there were several lads who should be good enough to feature before too long. This was echoed by the manager who suggested that for a couple, this may be as soon as next match! It was all fascinating and largely encouraging stuff. But for me, the message to fans has to be that many of our young players (and by young I don't mean just the teenagers) are very nervous and seriously lacking in confidence. They desperately need our support and our patience.