DoofersDad

My point is not that players left when he was in charge - players will always move on - it was his complete inability to bring in comparable players that was the problem.

Remember that Hughes took over when we were flying in 2nd place. He left us 5 places lower. During his tenure Ross, G Shinnie, Watkins, Vincent, Mckay, Devine, Williams and Christie left. Can you name any outfield players he signed who have remained for Foran to work with and who could be regarded as replacements of equal or better quality? (Keeper excepted OFW in, Brill out - much of a muchness). This despite the significantly higher player budget than Butcher had. Don't get me started about the style of play. Last season was the most boring football I have seen anywhere, any time.

Talk about "pots and kettles"! If you read through more of this lengthy thread you will see there are numerous examples where I have presented reasoned and, hopefully, well constructed arguments and got nothing remotely responding to a reasoned argument in reply. Instead, you have frequently posted brief posts making completely unsubstantiated statements and when challenged to respond, you remain silent. Check out my post on 8th November on the previous page as an example. Feel free to respond to it - at the 4th time of asking!. In this latest exchange we are discussing the Brexit vote in Parliament and what Lawrence referred to as 5 days of wasted Parliamentary time. The point I am making was echoed in the debate in Parliament today by both the Government and Official Opposition spokesmen. That is that the electorate as whole voted for the UK to leave the EU and therefore Parliament has a duty to put the instructions of the electorate in to effect. That is a basic democratic principle which I don't think requires any further explanation but which you seemingly disagree with. Your contribution to this discussion has been simply to say that SNP MPs are right to oppose the BIll because continued membership of the EU was in their manifesto. It was also in the manifesto of the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems. By your argument all of their MPs should also be voting against the BIll regardless of how their constituents voted. Were that to happen then our MPs would be defying the democratic instruction of the people. You may care to explain why you think it is OK for parliament to refuse to implement the instructions of the electorate in a lawfully constituted referendum. I guess Oddquine is trying to say that SNP MPs are justified in voting against article 50 because their constituencies all polled in favour of staying in the EU. But the vote in Parliament is not a simple echoing of the referendum. It is a vote about proceeding with the process of Brexit in line with the referendum. In other words it is a vote about whether they respect the wishes of the electorate as a whole or not. How dare the SNP MPs assume that just because I voted to remain that I want them to block the wishes of the majority who had a different view from me! They have voted the way they have simply as a means to an end - and we all know what that is. They claim that the result of the EU referendum was that Scotland voted to remain in the EU. But by claiming that, they simply fail to respect the result of the 2014 independence referendum. Scotland voted to remain part of the UK. And whilst a majority of Scots voters voted to remain in the EU, the result of the referendum was that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. Given that we have so recently affirmed our wish to remain in the UK, I expect my MP to respect the wishes of the UK electorate of which we are a part. I then expect him to represent the interests of his constituents in the ensuing negotiations. My position is that, as a democrat, I expect MPs to respect the results of lawfully constituted referendums. I think that is a pretty reasonable position to take. Perhaps, as you seem suddenly to be so keen on coherent and reasoned arguments, you would be good enough to give some coherent and reasoned argument as to why you think it OK for the SNP Government to disrespect the result of the 2 referendums and to lie about the 2014 referendum being a "once in a generation" event.

I'm not going to respond to Oddquine's rant in full. It would take far too long. I'll just respond to the nonsense at the beginning and the nonsense at the end. Oddquine starts with the standard nationalist trick of making her point based on what she would have liked her political opponent to have said rather than on what they actually did say. I'm not going to waste time repeating what I said but suffice it to say that her reply completely fails to address the point I was making. She concludes by refuting my suggestion that the Scottish Government does not even know what currency we would use following independence - but then makes a statement which clearly demonstrates my point! And all the stuff in between equally misses the point. Yes, I understand that the constitutional position of Scotland within the United Kingdom is complex but I fail to see the point of debating that when the relevant issues are far more straightforward. We have a Scottish Government which is refusing to respect the results of two referendums and which lied to its people about its intention to honour the result of the independence referendum. Yet somehow in her lengthy post Oddquine simply ignores this shameful anti-democratic behaviour. Personally I think the behaviour of the Scottish Parliament in 2017 is rather more relevant than that of the English Parliament in 1687.

Giving Foran a 4 year contract was a statement from the Board that they have confidence in Foran in the long run. Of course they will have appreciated his inexperience and along with that must be a realisation that he will require support and that there is an element of risk in all of this. I therefore do not think the Board will sack Foran but they really need to work hard to tease out where the current problems lie and get those sorted out. I do wonder if the Board, in appointing Foran, realised too late what a dreadful legacy Hughes had left and the long contract was almost an acceptance that dropping out of the top flight was inevitable. Four years would be a decent period for re-building a team in line with Foran's philosophy and a return to the top flight.

What depressing reading all this makes. There is barely a positive word, but then there is not a lot to be positive about. What there is to be positive about is that we do have a good squad of players (and great to get Billy Mckay back) but the big negatives are that they are almost all under-performing and our tactics are wrong. The question is - why? Lets look at a few issues regarding management and players. Whilst there have been issues up front, our problem this year has been shipping goals at the back. We have had options up front but precious few at the back. Yet in the transfer window we bring in 3 strikers but just one teenage defender. We remain very short of cover at the back. Strange. We have been increasingly reliant on the long punt despite the lack of a decent target man or having someone to play off him. Time after time the long punt up the park is easily mopped up by the opposition defence and our response is to do it more and more. Is this the manager's tactics (and if so, why?) or are players doing it as the easy option because nobody else is making themselves available? Meanwhile in Cole, Doran, King and Mulraney we have creative, pacey players who are capable of causing chaos in defences and the more we need their kind of influence on the park, the less they are played. Only recently Foran had been talking of Cole's qualities and the club seemed really anxious to extend his loan. He has been one of our best players in recent games and yet yesterday he was dropped to the bench! Why, when Foran pledged himself to "attack, attack,attack" is he not using his most creative players more? It is a basic truth that you should play to your strengths but it must be pretty obvious to everyone that we are patently failing to do that. That failing has to be down to management. But the players are not exempt from criticism. Richie said after last night's game that too many players seemed not to want the ball. That echoes what I said after the Partick game in that players just don't seem to be making the movement to either get into space to receive the ball or to make runs to disrupt the defence and make space for others. Performances have lacked urgency for a while and whilst you could say it is the manager's job to motivate players, I would say that players should not need anybody else to motivate them to give 100% every time they step onto the pitch. There are exceptions from this criticism, of course, and Carl Tremarco is the stand out here - player of the season by a country mile so far. When Graeme Shinnie left and Hughes was asked about how this would affect the captaincy and leadership on the park, he replied that he wasn't worried about that because he had leaders all over the park. One thought of players like Draper, Tansey and, of course, Gary Warren who actually took over the captaincy, It is the performance of these players which causes most concern. We need real leadership from Warren in particular both on and off the park, Has he got the confidence of his team mates? What is his relationship with Foran? What role do the players themselves have in influencing game plans? There are clearly some issues behind the scenes and the Chairman really needs to knock a few heads together, get to the bottom of where the problem lies and sort it out. After Richie picked up a Manager of the Month award things have gone steadily downhill and I think we are now probably at a tipping point. Get the tactics right, play to our strengths and enthuse the players with the approach and we can turn this round. Carry on as we are and this time next year we will be involved in another relegation battle - in the Championship. Over to you, Kenny.

The Billy of old is just what we need but I wonder if that is the Billy we will get. His recent scoring (or not scoring) record is clearly a worry but it is important to remember that Richie played in the same side as Billy and will know what makes him tick. Billy himself will know that unless he can find his goal scoring touch here then his career is as good as over. I'm sure he will enjoy resuming his place in the side with Doran and that should help both of them get back to their best. We've missed having a player in the side who has a knack of just nipping in front of defenders or swivelling on a half chance. It's not as though we haven't been getting the ball into dangerous areas, it is just that we haven't been seizing the opportunities which arise. I've a good feeling about this but we shouldn't expect miracles. He'll need time to settle back in and get his confidence back.

Good topic for a thread. I've cut and pasted what I wrote on another thread. One of the areas where we are poor is the movement off the ball. One of the things that bugged me about Hughes was the obsession with possession such that nearly every pass had to be into feet and we created very little because the ball was rarely played into spaces behind the defenders. That also meant we were slow coming forward and opponents had plenty time to regroup. It seems that this mindset has become ingrained in some players and players are not looking either for the space for the ball to be played into or to take defenders away and create space for others (Billy Mckay was great at doing that). As a result the only forward option is often the long punt. There's nothing wrong with the long punt from time to time, but it is not a game plan. We are too predictable and therefore easy to defend against. We need to be quicker coming out of defence, we need attacking midfielders to use the width of the pitch and the front men to move opposition defenders around creating uncertainty and space. We then need our central midfielders to be more positive in moving into the space created.

As usual, Oddquine is simply wrong on just about everything she says. MPs are not elected to represent the positions of their constituencies. They are elected to represent their constituents. That is quite a different thing. Just as with a General Election result, following a referendum there is an expectation MPs will respect the result and then work in the interests of their constituents thereafter. With respect to the EU referendum this means accepting the will of the wider electorate by allowing negotiations to start and then making their voices heard during the negotiations. It is interesting though that the SNP take the line that MPs have to vote against triggering of article 50 because leaving the EU does not reflect the views of their constituents. Just compare that with the SNP MSPs who are supposed to represent the interests of us in the Highlands but who meekly kowtowed to their political masters and betrayed their constituents on the recent vote of the HIE. And of course EU representatives did not get a vote on whether we be allowed to leave the EU. Why should they? There is not a European state and there is no legislation which requires such a vote. Oddquine suggests that is the comparison to be made, but clearly it is not. Just as Scotland, as part of the sovereign state of the United Kingdom, requires the consent of Westminster to hold a referendum, it needs the consent of Westminster to leave the Union. Not that I am suggesting the English MP would try to block the wishes of the Scots if we voted for independence, I am merely putting the SNP's current antidemocratic posturing into some context. It is, perhaps, interesting to make one more comparison. For all Sturgeon's pathetic bleating about the Westminster Government having no plan for Brexit, one wonders just what plans the SNP has for tackling the negotiations to disentangle a Scottish state from the complex infrastructure of the UK? We heard nothing of any such strategy during the lengthy independence referendum campaign. At least the British Government knows what currency we will be using following Brexit.

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One of the areas where we are poor is the movement off the ball. One of the things that bugged me about Hughes was the obsession with possession such that nearly every pass had to be into feet and we created very little because the ball was rarely played into spaces behind the defenders. That also meant we were slow coming forward and opponents had plenty time to regroup. It seems that this mindset has become ingrained in some players and players are not looking either for the space for the ball to be played into or to take defenders away and create space for others (Billy Mckay was great at doing that). As a result the only forward option is often the long punt. There's nothing wrong with the long punt from time to time, but it is not a game plan. We are too predictable and therefore easy to defend against. We need to be quicker coming out of defence, we need attacking midfielders to use the width of the pitch and the front men to move opposition defenders around creating uncertainty and space. We then need our central midfielders to be more positive in moving into the space created.

We've only won 3 games all season and yet remarkably we are only 6 points off 5th place! Clearly we have some problems and unless we start winning soon then we could become adrift at the bottom, but we are not at the "must win" stage yet. Richie seemed very pleased with the draw and I think he is right to take some positives from the game. We did generally look a little more solid at the back and managed a rare clean sheet. The draw took us a point closer to Hamilton, Motherwell and Dundee and improved our points per game ratio. In Cole, Mulraney and Doran we demonstrated that we have got creative players who are capable of creating chances - and before Mulraney and Doran came on, Tremarco could have had a hat-trick! Having said that, there were undoubtedly more negatives than positives. I was actually quite shocked to hear the manager say that Warren and Tansey were up last night with a vomiting bug. If so, why on earth were they playing? They should have been resting up at home and not risking passing a virus to their team mates. Playing them will also have taken a lot out of them and they may now be struggling for fitness for Tuesday's vital game. Draper could have dropped back to centre back with Vigurs and Doran starting instead. Can't have done their confidence much good being benched in favour of a couple of invalids. I don't know if Doumbouye was also not well but that was far and away the poorest I have seen him play. With competition for places quite hot, he should have been really fired up to keep his place but he looked disinterested and his control of the ball was poor. Unless he was also unwell he may be out of the side for a while. Anier had a chance to shine but unfortunately failed to impress. He seems unwilling to head the long balls to him and instead backs into defenders in an attempt to let the ball drop and turn the defender. It's a foul every time. He seemed to work reasonably hard but rarely really made himself available. The one time he did he was harshly adjudged to have fouled a defender. He certainly would be worth another start but rather than be a target man, he needs to play off someone who can win the ball better. Polworth was another who disappointed. He also seemed rather lacklustre today and gave the ball away rather too much. He had a couple of decent chances and really should have scored when put in with a cute pass from Draper. I'm surprised Cole was taken off rather than him because I thought Cole, while not at his best, had a reasonable game. In my view, Doran should have started and if only he could get a confidence boost with a goal he could reinvigorate us as an attacking force. Mulraney did his usual trick of exciting us only to then disappoint us immediately after. He does some great work on the wing to skin defenders but more often than not completely wastes the opportunity he has created. So it's a bit of a mixed bag. I do believe we have the players who can comfortably lift us clear of the relegation zone by the end of the season, but we need players who are fit and well and we need them to be hungrier for the ball than they were today. We need players to take responsibility for driving into the danger areas and looking to shoot. We need players scoring and feeding off the confidence that brings. At the moment we look disjointed going forward and that is perhaps due more to the manager than the players. There needs to be a shake up of tactics as we seem to be playing to our weaknesses rather than our strengths. It's not all doom and gloom yet, but we certainly do need to get back to winning ways soon. There may have been legitimate excuses for today's lack lustre performance, but the bottom line is that if we play like that for the rest of the season, we will be in the Championship next season.

Nothing remotely obtuse in what I am saying. What I am saying is that it is incumbent on politicians to respect the result of a referendum called by our democratically elected Government. I'm not sure what could be more simple and straightforward than that.

Television is resulting in falling crowds and at the same time television money is allowing top clubs to page obscene salaries to their players. The size of squads these clubs can afford despite the wages paid means that smaller clubs - the life blood of the game - are unable to afford decent players. The gulf between the elite and the rest widens and crowds diminish further. What I would like to see is television money used to subside the attending fans rather than going into the coffers of the the super rich players and their agents. If clubs were required to allow free entrance into televised games and TV companies were required to pay the clubs compensation for the lost revenue up to the number of people who actually attend, then that would have a lot of benefits. The TV companies would show well attended games with lots of atmosphere and clubs would get a boost from being paid back the admission charges for a bigger crowd than they would normally get. It would also introduce the match day experience to some fans who don't normally go and who might be persuaded to attend more regularly as a result. It's maybe a nice idea but it's not going to happen because those who run the game are more concerned about making money than about the long term health of the game.

So it follows that when a majority vote of the people of the United Kingdom vote to leave the EU, that vote should be respected.

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The vast majority of people didn't vote for their MP simply because of their party's position on the EU. But this is not a party political matter, it was a UK wide vote which simply must be respected. It's all very well to claim that the Scottish MPs are adopting some moral high ground because at the end of the day, we know that enough MPs will vote to trigger article 50 and therefore this pathetic political posturing won't over-ride the democratic will of the electorate as a whole. But let us suppose a 2nd independence referendum resulted in a majority for independence. Now most English MPs represent parties who support a unionist position. So by your reasoning they would be completely justified in voting to block any process which would allow the referendum result to be taken forward. Somehow, though, I take it that if that should happen,you would not be coming on here and applauding them for their principled opposition.

What a farce this has been and continues to be. It looks as though there will only be a solitary Scottish MP who demonstrates any respect for the EU referendum result and the result of the 2014 referendum. In 2014 (just in case people have forgotten) the Scottish people voted to remain in the UK. In doing so, it must be implicit that we accept the result of UK ballots, even when they don't go the way we might like them to. The result of the UK referendum was that the UK electorate voted to leave the EU and we should therefore respect that. By voting against triggering article 50, MPs are explicitly saying that they don't wish to respect the instruction given to parliament by the people. It is fundamentally anti-democratic. And what is even worse is that they have pledged to vote against the bill before they even know what will be in it and, of course without having the remotest idea of what the subsequent negotiations might offer us! The SNP are not acting in the interests of the Scottish people, they are simply doing what they always do which is to claim some contrived grievance in order to pursue their independence agenda. What is in the interests of the Scottish people would be for the Scottish Government to respect the results of both referendums, support the UK Government in getting Brexit negotiations under way and then working with everyone else to get the best deal for the UK as a whole and Scotland specifically. All this talk of a 2nd independence referendum is certainly not in the interests of the Scottish people and is not what the Scottish people want. To suggest that we should have another referendum before we even know what the outcome of the Brexit negotiations are (or any subsequent trading deals elsewhere) displays a complete lack of respect for the voter and is recklessly irresponsible. Not to mention the fact that the SNP would plunge us into another referendum without us knowing the terms under which Scotland might be invited to stay in / join the EU. For goodness sake, let's respect the decisions of the electorate, work to get the best deal and then evaluate. If after that there appears to be a constructive case for Scottish Independence, then that would be the time to raise that issue again.

I'd settle for Morton

Ah! So it is. I should have watched it on a bigger screen first. And to be fair to Boden, a nice little bit of control and lay off to Doran to set up Doumbouya's goal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-38717261 Police wanting mobile phone footage of naughtiness after the game. Was this some Elgin FC folk having a stooshie about the 8,000 unsold tickets?

Having watched the highlights it looks as though Doumbouya lifted his foot out of the way to let the ball through. He may got a slight touch which might have affected the path of the ball. He looks more to blame than Fon Williams. In any case, once a free kick is played short surely the players in the wall should be rushing forward to block. Interesting to note that in all 3 of Doumbouya's opportunities shown, it was Doran who provided a very precise ball into him. Doran does not seem to have recovered the pace he had prior to his long term injury, but he has real vision and is still going to be a key player for us for the rest of the season. I think we will create a lot of chances if we play with Cole and Doran in the side.

Richie was appointed on 30th May and the Boden deal was announced on 9th June. Looks as though discussions would have been going on in the background before Richie was appointed but it would be interesting to know whether he was in a position to stop the deal if he was so inclined. Hughes certainly made some very uninspired signings and Boden seems to fit the mould of a Hughes signing more than a Foran signing. He is clearly behind Doumbouya and Fisher in the pecking order and with 2 more strikers signed I can't see him getting much game time for the rest of the season. I can't see anyone coming in with a bid for him so maybe shipping him out on loan would be the best option. A bit of game time at a lower level may see him gain a bit more confidence and give him the opportunity to show us all what he is capable of.

It's a great draw for us. For a start it will bring in some money. If we win then we will get a huge boost and even more money. If we lose then at least we go out to a side which is expected to beat us. We would be able to focus on league survival without the distraction of a cup run and without the morale sapping knowledge that we have gone out to a side we should have beaten. The danger is that we get totally hammered. Celtic are very strong and we are somewhat vulnerable at the moment. Getting beat 5-0 would be very deflating but there is no real reason to think that is going to happen. Given our record against Celtic in the cup I would imagine that they would rather have avoided us. They know they should beat us comfortably but they also know how embarrassing it would be for them to lose to us yet again. As long as we make a good account of ourselves then we can be happy with that and can then focus on the main business. Actually it is a decent draw all round with a potential Edinburgh derby, County v the Dons and a guarantee that 2 sides from the lower divisions reach the last 8. By the way - any chance of signing Paul Sheerin in the January window?

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