DoofersDad

Sounds like a disappointing end but I think we would have taken a 1-1 draw before the game. We at least can blame our poor start on injuries to some extent. We may not be happy but I think we are happier than this Kilmarnock fan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3QtbD5jHK0 Priceless! - but don't click on the link if you are offended by the odd naughty word!

One of the real concerns I see is that so many of our players are on contracts only to the end of this season. Had we started off this season as we had last season, then the prospect of another good finish in the league and perhaps another taste of Europe next year, would have seen us in a much stronger position to retain our current players and attract new players. Hopefully our injury crisis will ease soon, our new recruits will demonstrate that they can perform at this level and we will start to make progress up the table. However, if we have not turned things round by the end of the year and find ourselves in a relegation dog fight we will be having players queuing up to sign pre-contract agreements elsewhere. We have rightly been seen as a club which has developed players and allowed them to move on to bigger clubs and as long as we are successful then they may hang around here a little longer - but they have not come here to play in the Championship. If we get relegated we will lose many of our better players and there is not a chance we would bounce straight up like before. Of course our injury crisis is serious but in my view the current contract situation is probably a more serious threat to our longer term success. If we are struggling at the back end of the season and if the bulk of our players are not signed up for the following season then it will not matter a great deal to them whether we stay up or go down. If they are signed up for a further year they will have a huge motivation for the club to avoid the drop plus we would still have them the following year in the event of us getting relegated. It is therefore pretty urgent that the club looks to extend contracts ASAP. And, of course, ensuring players always have at least a year on their contracts means we are more likely to get money for players who do depart. So whilst it is not all doom and gloom at the moment and there is certainly no need to panic, it does make good sense to recognise the implications of not pulling things round and to take steps now to mitigate the potential effects of that. If there are players in the squad with less than a year on their contracts that the manager would like to keep here then they should be told that they either renew before the January transfer window or they will be released at the end of season. You can't stop a player leaving but at least that way you maximise the chance of getting some transfer fees into the club and you maximise the time available to find a replacement.

An important issue here is that with all the injuries we have and the importance of getting players back, we don't ask too much of them too soon and that they don't ask too much of themselves too soon. Anyone know about Roberts and Vincent? I thought they were meant to be out with relatively minor problems. Getting Meekings, Tremarco, Vincent and Roberts fully fit should help give a lot more solidity to the team.

Any chance the two Ryan Christie threads can be merged?

Not really. Wigan could have waited six months and got him for free. Dundee Utd are having to compensate Wigan for releasing him from his contract., which has about 21 months to run. If £150k buys out 6 months, then Utd should be paying over 500k to buy out 12 months! I don't think that is right. Utd do not need to compensate Wigan because Wigan are happy to let him go. It is Wigan who need to compensate Mckay for ending his contract 17 months early. If McKay is going to be paid £1500 a week less at Utd then Mckay will be wanting roughly £100,000 in lost earnings. From Wigan's perspective, even if they give that to Mckay, selling him means that they release £2,500 a week and get £200k into the coffers. For a a player who cost them £150k and has not scored a competitive goal for them in 7 months, that's not a bad bit of business. No. Wigan were only happy to let him go once a certain value was reached - remember that Utd had a couple of previous bids rejected. Clearly the player doesn't have to move if the wage is less, and at that point Wigan may well have to offer something to make up for the drop in earnings. And if they give £100k to Mckay, they won't be getting £200k into their coffers. It goes without saying that Wigan want to get as much as they can for Billy and that Billy doesn't have to go unless he is willing to go - but that is irrelevant to the argument here. As things stand with Billy as a Wigan player they are committed to paying Billy, £4K a week for a further 17 months. Utd are offering him £2.5K a week. If Wigan agree to compensate for Billy's loss of earnings in full then Wigan could continue to pay Billy the difference of £1.5K a week for the next 17 months. That is quite separate from the fee they receive from Utd. They still get £200K into the bank but would be paying Billy £2.5K per week less than they are now. Over the course of the rest of Billy's contract that is a reduction in wages to Billy of £170K. By selling Mckay to Utd for £200K and fully compensating the player for loss of earnings, Wigan get £200K into the coffers and reduce their wage bill by £170K compared to where they would be if Billy simply dug his heels in and said he was staying. Given that he seems to have dropped out of their plans altogether, that seems like a no-brainer on behalf of Wigan. Interestingly, the fact that they did not accept a lower offer previously would suggest considerably more astuteness in the transfer market than we are displaying. It is also interesting to note that if the suggested deal regarding Christie goes ahead, the money received would allow us to buy back Billy and pay him on the same basis as Utd have offered. However, one year down the line we would have no Christie and two years down the line Billy's contract would be up and there would be no money left! If they commit to pay Billy £100k, they would have to set that aside or account for it, or however you wish to phrase it. So either the whole £200k is not available to them, as they have to make a provision of £100k, or some other budget takes the hit. Assuming the £1.5K compensation to Billy is made on a weekly on monthly basis or on what ever basis they are paying him £4K a week now, they will be shelling out £2.5K less per week in the future than they are now. They do not need to budget for the £1.5K a week because these are not extra costs. Quite the contrary, they release the £2.5K a week that Billy's new club will be paying him.

Not really. Wigan could have waited six months and got him for free. Dundee Utd are having to compensate Wigan for releasing him from his contract., which has about 21 months to run. If £150k buys out 6 months, then Utd should be paying over 500k to buy out 12 months! I don't think that is right. Utd do not need to compensate Wigan because Wigan are happy to let him go. It is Wigan who need to compensate Mckay for ending his contract 17 months early. If McKay is going to be paid £1500 a week less at Utd then Mckay will be wanting roughly £100,000 in lost earnings. From Wigan's perspective, even if they give that to Mckay, selling him means that they release £2,500 a week and get £200k into the coffers. For a a player who cost them £150k and has not scored a competitive goal for them in 7 months, that's not a bad bit of business. No. Wigan were only happy to let him go once a certain value was reached - remember that Utd had a couple of previous bids rejected. Clearly the player doesn't have to move if the wage is less, and at that point Wigan may well have to offer something to make up for the drop in earnings. And if they give £100k to Mckay, they won't be getting £200k into their coffers. It goes without saying that Wigan want to get as much as they can for Billy and that Billy doesn't have to go unless he is willing to go - but that is irrelevant to the argument here. As things stand with Billy as a Wigan player they are committed to paying Billy, £4K a week for a further 17 months. Utd are offering him £2.5K a week. If Wigan agree to compensate for Billy's loss of earnings in full then Wigan could continue to pay Billy the difference of £1.5K a week for the next 17 months. That is quite separate from the fee they receive from Utd. They still get £200K into the bank but would be paying Billy £2.5K per week less than they are now. Over the course of the rest of Billy's contract that is a reduction in wages to Billy of £170K. By selling Mckay to Utd for £200K and fully compensating the player for loss of earnings, Wigan get £200K into the coffers and reduce their wage bill by £170K compared to where they would be if Billy simply dug his heels in and said he was staying. Given that he seems to have dropped out of their plans altogether, that seems like a no-brainer on behalf of Wigan. Interestingly, the fact that they did not accept a lower offer previously would suggest considerably more astuteness in the transfer market than we are displaying. It is also interesting to note that if the suggested deal regarding Christie goes ahead, the money received would allow us to buy back Billy and pay him on the same basis as Utd have offered. However, one year down the line we would have no Christie and two years down the line Billy's contract would be up and there would be no money left!

Not really. Wigan could have waited six months and got him for free. Dundee Utd are having to compensate Wigan for releasing him from his contract., which has about 21 months to run. If £150k buys out 6 months, then Utd should be paying over 500k to buy out 12 months! I don't think that is right. Utd do not need to compensate Wigan because Wigan are happy to let him go. It is Wigan who need to compensate Mckay for ending his contract 17 months early. If McKay is going to be paid £1500 a week less at Utd then Mckay will be wanting roughly £100,000 in lost earnings. From Wigan's perspective, even if they give that to Mckay, selling him means that they release £2,500 a week and get £200k into the coffers. For a a player who cost them £150k and has not scored a competitive goal for them in 7 months, that's not a bad bit of business.

The whole striker situation is rather concerning. We lost Billy in January and knew we would be losing Marley at the end of last season, so there has been plenty of time to seek replacements. A few weeks ago Yogi said that by having signed Lopez and Mutombo our signings for front men was completed. No sooner was he saying that than suddenly we are in panic mode begging the Chairman to release funding to sign a much needed striker. The transfer window will be shutting soon and whilst teams around us seem to be able to make decent signings, we are still searching. I dread to think what this must be doing to the confidence of the strikers he has signed. We can talk about our very serious injury crisis but the injury crisis actually has relatively little bearing on our failure to score goals. Yogi said that Mutombo could play anywhere along the front line, so presumably he considers him as a striker when need be: he is not injured. Lopez may have picked up a slight injury against Hamilton but nothing that will keep him out for long, and Ferguson and Sutherland were on the bench at the weekend and so were presumably fit. So why the last minute panic to sign a striker? The fact is that Yogi has signed Lopez and Mutombo this season and has given contracts to the youngsters but yet seems to have no real faith in them. Needing to chase the game against Hamilton and not putting either of the youngsters on when Lopez had to come off seems, on the face of it, to be an extraordinary statement of lack of confidence in them. If Yogi now feels the players he has signed are not good enough then one has to question why he signed them.

Really gutted to learn of Doran's injury. He's been one of the most creative players we have had in the club in the last few years and has scored a decent number of goals. He is also very good at pulling defenders out of position and creating space for team mates. It is all very well looking for a striker but you need to have players who can create the chances for the strikers in the first place. He is going to be a huge miss for us.

Rory McAllister scoring all 5 for Peterhead in their 5-3 win away at Falkirk in the Petrofac cup. Wow!

Just seen the highlights and struck by how poor our defending was for their goals. On the plus side, it was a nicely taken goal from Lopez having initially won the ball and then got into position to get the ball back in the danger area. Hopefully that will give him a bit of confidence and he can start knocking them in in front of the home fans. What strikes me though is that whilst we have done well prior to the Celtic game to concede so few goals without Warren and Meekings, we are decidedly vulnerable at the back and are inevitably going to ship a few goals. Unless we play with a more positive attacking intent then we are going to lose a lot of games. If Saturday showed us anything, it was that we do have players who can score, given the opportunity. Forget about clean sheets, lets just focus on scoring more goals than our opponents do.

I'm sure that learning his craft here and emerging as a key player in the first team has been good for Christie's development, but to be honest, I don't see that he is going to develop a lot more here. He works his socks off most of the time but all too often there is such a lack of movement in front of him that he is forced to play safe balls square or backwards with the result that he creates relatively little end product. You can see the frustration at times. I think he has reached the stage where he needs to move in order to develop. He needs to move to a team with a more attack minded philosophy with players in front of him who can pull defenders out of position and create the spaces for the incisive passes he is capable of delivering. I can see the attraction of offering him a 2 or 3 year deal on a much higher salary in the hope that it leads to a significantly higher bid in a couple of years time, but there are a couple of huge risks in that. Firstly, with our limited resources, paying him significantly more means there is correspondingly less for others. He needs good players round him to bring out the best in him and we will not attract and retain good players if we can't afford the wages. Secondly, he may get injured or simply fail to fulfill his potential. If that happens then we keep paying a high wage for an asset who is not actually worth too much. Personally I think the best option for him and the club would be for us to cash in whilst we can and get a realistic (7 figure) price for him in this transfer window. With Vincent, Doran and Roberts all due to return from injury, with Williams potentially available for midfield duties on Tremarco's return from injury, plus the re-signing of Vigurs, we have a lot of decent players in midfield. Where we have a problem is up front. With £1m+ in the bank we have the opportunity of attracting a better striker. We also have far too many players on contracts which expire at the end of the season and this would also give us the opportunity to offer a little more to players the manager is keen to keep. In selling Ryan, a loan clause would be an option but not an important one as far as I'm concerned. What would be far more important is to get some clause for a cut in any future sale of the player. Yes, we would miss him if he went but personally I think the benefit of the major cash boost would more than compensate for that. He is now at the stage where he will develop more without us, and with the cash boost his sale might generate I think the club would develop more without him. It's time for him to move on with our very best wishes for his future.

"Not getting too despondent yet and I think once we get Dorran, Vincent and Roberts back things will change." This seems to be a commonly held view but in a way it illustrates just why some people are quite concerned at the moment. Last season Doran started just 15 league games and Vincent 13. That's about 1 in 3 matches for both of them and yet now suddenly we're hanging onto a hope that when they return, our attacking play will suddenly step up a gear or two. But we did OK without them in the starting XI lest season, so why are we looking so bereft of ideas up front without them this season. Getting Tremarco back and releasing Williams into the midfield will help but I really don't think you can pin our lacking of effectiveness upfront this season down to our injury "crisis"

We tend to well against Celtic because they adopt the attitude that they are better than anyone else and focus on simply playing their way. They come at other teams and that creates space for teams to exploit - if they are good enough. This takes us back to John Collins and comments about how Celtic need to play deeper against European opposition. The point here is that we can expect there will be space to exploit when we get the ball. The defence for Lopez has been to some extent that playing against teams that sit deep makes it hard for our front men to find space and for the midfield to get the ball through to them when they do. Against Celtic, the problem is getting the ball in the first place, but when you do, there is always space to exploit. If our creative midfielders can be given the role of being "cutting and dynamic" then there should be opportunities for Lopez to show what he can do. I therefore hope that Lopez is given the opportunity to start on Saturday as it may just be the opportunity he needs to show the fans why Yogi has put his trust in him. I sincerely hope he comes good but if not, then it will be time for a change against Hamilton.

Does this include training sessions?

Yes. A game of football actually broke out. And the crowd responded. I even got a little bit excited for a while!

So what he is in effect saying is that Lopez does not have a physical presence, isn't a quick runner and doesn't want to chase lost causes. It therefore rather begs the question of why he signed him.

Given our difficult current situation, one player I might have expected more of is Greg Tansey. Last season he was one of the lynch pins of the side and was a major, if often under appreciated, contributor to our success. This season he seems to be less effective at a time when we really need him to step up and impose himself on games. He is offering little going forward and seems a shadow of the player he was last year. Despite the fact that we are currently weaker than last year with departures and injuries, his place in the side must be at risk with the way he has been playing. Polworth was significantly more effective against Partick. Lets hope he can rekindle last season's form - and soon.

We've stretched our unbeaten run to 2 games! Agree with Alex.

I also think he could be a good signing and will perhaps offer a little more creativity for that final ball. He may have had an attitude problem in the past but hopefully he has matured a bit. It was encouraging to read the Yogi was surprised by his good fitness level because that suggests he has really applied himself to keeping himself in shape whilst not signed up with anyone. No doubt there will be those who are unhappy with his return but folk at the club know all about Iain and I am sure they will not have taken him back unless they were convinced he will be an asset to the club.

It sounds anything but promising to me. Firstly it suggests that the number and likely duration of the injuries is such that the manager feels we cannot cover the problem without getting players in on loan. Secondly, and more importantly, it suggests that he has already asked the Chairman through the usual internal communication route but that the chairman is unwilling to release the funding. If the Highland News reports Yogi as saying that he has permission from the Board to get players in on loan, then fine. But if he is "asking" via an article in the press then that would suggest a significant breakdown in the relationship between chairman and manager. We shall see.

I would rather see the striker we have actually signed score some goals.

The fact that this thread is up to 27 pages illustrates what a concern our lack of a decent striker is. I am loathe to make an opinion on players until they have had time to adapt to their new team's style of play and get themselves to full fitness but whatever Lopez's attributes may be, he does not look to me like a main striker. When Billy was not scoring, he always looked as though he might. Lopez doesn't. Excuses have been made for Lopez that he is not really match fit but if that is the case then it really shouldn't stop him getting into goal scoring positions - it would stop him coming back from those positions! Loy scored a brilliant poacher's goal for Dundee at the weekend and it reminded me that Billy could score goals like that. Unfortunately I just can't see Lopez scoring that sort of goal because he does not appear to be an instinctive striker. It may be that he is playing deeper than he usually would because of the lack of service he is getting, although when we did manage to get the ball in the box, he was often absent. There was one incident late in the 2nd half, when we should have been pressing for an equalizer, when good work from Mutombo down the left led to the ball being played in to the box. The ball hit a defender and ballooned up as it was diverted. The keeper came to collect at the edge of the box and, if I remember correctly, had the luxury of allowing the ball to bounce before collecting it. Someone near to me asked incredulously "how is the keeper being allowed to collect that!" Lopez was nowhere to be seen and there was no other Inverness player close enough to make a challenge for a slow looping ball at the edge of the box. That to me sums up what our problems are And the worse our injuries are at the back, the more important it is that we create and convert chances at the other end. Personally, I would like to see Christie play more forward. Amongst all the players he is the one who has the awareness, anticipation and turn of pace to get in the right place at the right time. He has demonstrated he can shoot but sometimes lacks composure in front of goal. Getting one or two under his belt would help in that regard. If we can't afford or can't find a new striker we have to work with what we've got and in Christie I think we have the potential for an instinctive goals scorer.

Was listening to the news headlines on Radio 4 earlier and was astonished to hear that our injury woes had made the UK national news! But then I realised they were reporting the latest on the Calais crisis.

Yogi was saying during the week and in the program notes that it would be wrong for fans to have unrealistic expectations about matching last season's achievements. Perhaps this was a deliberately poor performance just to make sure nobody is expecting too much?