DoofersDad

Oh Danny boy, the Caley fans are calling From glen to glen, and from the high Cairngorms The gaffer's gone, and all your mates are staying Tis you, tis you must sign your contract forms.

I do hope Devine's decision to consider other options is not driven by comments from fans on this forum. A small number of folk have been pretty harsh on him. And in defending Raven against the appalling treatment by our ex manager, many folk talked Raven up by talking Devine down. But it's not a question of Raven or Devine - we need them both. For all the difficulties we have had this season, our defensive record has been good and Devine has started more games than any other outfield player. So he really can't have done too bad, can he? Sure, he has made a mistake or two but who hasn't? Personally I would rather see Meekings in the CB role with Warren although to be honest, there's not a lot in it. But regardless of the pecking order, we need defensive cover and what with injuries and suspensions Devine would be assured of a lot of game time next season even if he wasn't the new manager's first choice. He is also a lot younger than both Raven and Warren and could easily develop into a player who would be a first choice CB for many years. I think Devine has a good career in front of him and I would love it to be with ICT.

Another thing about the Chairman is that he listens to the players and values what they say. If Foran gets the job we can be pretty certain that the appointment will have the full support of the players. IMHO the "togetherness" that would bring will more than compensate for Foran's lack of managerial experience.

I would like to see all those 3 signed up for different reasons. Devine has been an important player for us this season and regardless of the Raven issue, we absolutely need cover in defence. Devine is still young and could well mature into a very fine player. Mutombo is a bit of a maverick player. There is no doubt that he can be exciting to watch but sometimes he flatters to deceive. There is certainly potential there and if the new manager can harness his talents more effectively then he could turn out to be a great signing. I haven't seen much of Roberts but he clearly has a lot of quality and is capable of scoring goals out of the top drawer. I would like to see him given a chance. I'm not convinced he is really suited to the Hughes style of play but I do think he can fit in with well with a style which better suits the players we currently have signed. He could well be Yogi's stand out signing.

I think the point is that the statement explicitly said that pre-contract agreements with "at least 2 incoming players" would be finalised within the "next couple of weeks" - and that was 4 weeks ago. This suggests that negotiations are not going as well as expected. Perhaps better if the Board asked CaleyD to word their statements. Saying contracts are being "worked on" without giving any suggestion of when completion is expected makes it easier for any follow up statement.

It's good to see Vigurs signed up. 3rd highest scorer last season with 6 and some very important and composed finishes amongst those. In Vigurs, Draper, Tansey and Polworth we have some very combative mid-fielders who can all score goals. I would love to see Doran pulling defences this way and that with Tremarco and Raven rampaging down the flanks and laying balls back for our on-rushing mid-fielders. Forget Barcelona. With the players we have we should be looking to emulate West Germany and their demolition of Brazil. We do, however, need an instinctive striker up-front in the Billy Mckay mould (Billy himself would be good!). And Fisher may well prove to be a useful target man giving us lots of attacking options. I see the makings of a really exciting counter attacking side taking shape. Acknowledgement: The above analysis was suggested to me earlier today by a 7 year old boy.

Yes. I think we can agree to disagree over Yogi and hopefully we will agree about the great job our new manager will do regardless of how young or old he (or she) may be. Whilst I have never been a fan of Yogi's style, you have been a very loyal supporter of him. Perhaps he will reward that support by dipping into his termination of contract settlement and buying you a decent bottle of Malt. It's no less than you deserve!

Butcher joined the club with the club on the verge of relegation. He managed to bring us straight back, established us as a top six side and left us in 2nd position. That is pretty successful and represented real progress for the club. He did this on a smaller budget than Hughes has had available. Had he stayed, I feel it highly likely we would have made it into Europe a year earlier and who knows what we might have done in the cups - won the league cup possibly but certainly we wouldn't have got dumped out of the Scottish cup 5-0 at home to Dundee Utd! Given the squad available, success was there for the taking. Surely the thing to do was to build on the success the team was having and just tweak things a bit to try to further improve things. Sure Hughes got things back on track the following season but at the cost of turning the team into one which rarely entertained. I just wonder what we might have achieved if he had built on the successful style we had rather than completely revamping the playing style. In the year and a bit prior to Butcher's departure the team averaged 1.61 points a game and 1.67 goals a game in the league. In taking the team from 2nd to 7th, Hughes has managed 1,45 points a game and 1,29 goals a game. That does not sound like progress to me. And even when we were successful under Hughes, I think there are many who would disagree with you about the style of play. I agree that there were times when passages of passing play were excellent and we scored some lovely team goals as a result. I therefore have some sympathy with Hughes' vision of how he would like the game to be played. But the reality is that these moments were few and far between and all too often the opposition set out to frustrate us and we were unable to find the space, or the speed and accuracy of passing required to make this work. Instead we passed the ball sideways and back and even games we won were just boring to watch. At least we now have a good core of a squad in place for next season. Hopefully the new manager will manage in a way that is best for the club rather than pursue his own personal vision. There is much still to do in order to replace the players who have left during Hughes' tenure at the club, but I am now optimistic that we can move forward again with a more entertaining style of play.

I think people seem to forget just how much support the Board actually gave Hughes over his tenure here. When Hughes took over we were 2nd in the league and flying. There is an old saying of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but Hughes decided he would abandon a playing style which had suited the players and impose his own vision on the team. As a result, in a season when we should have won a European place and could have tasted cup success we ended the season playing some of the worst football ever played by an ICT side and crashing to a succession of record defeats (losing 5-0 at home in the cup to Dundee Utd for instance). In those circumstances most Boards would have parted with the manager forthwith. Instead, the Board kept their faith in Hughes. After a much more successful following season, the Board showed faith in Hughes by giving him the biggest budget any manager at the club has ever had. They then gave him a 2 year extension of his contract and then provided further funds to help out in the injury crisis. Finally, despite a very disappointing season last season and a clear failure in the recruitment of new players, the Board continued to support him by maintaining funding levels. But for Hughes, all of that wasn't enough. Despite the support shown to him, Hughes embarked on a media campaign of criticising the Board for the level of funding rather than accepting any responsibility for his failure to recruit as successfully as his predecessors. I accept that Hughes may well have been annoyed at the Board's refusal to let him talk to Dundee Utd and in my view that was an error on behalf of the Board. But the point here is that having given so much support to Hughes, the Board felt it had a right to expect Hughes to repay that faith with a little bit of loyalty. Hughes clearly sees it differently and his public criticism of the the Board and his abject failure in signing players simply gave the Board no option. As I say, when Hughes arrived we were 2nd in the league. When he left we were 7th. After more than 21/2 years at the club, Hughes has lost several good players and leaves it with only a couple of fringe players that he has signed currently signed for the coming season. The core players that are contracted are Raven (who Hughes didn't want), Meekings, Warren, Tremarco, Draper, Tansey, Draper, Doran and Polworth and are all Butcher's boys. Fon Williams is a Hughes signing but interestingly has only extended his contract now that Hughes is away. Despite record levels of funding, Hughes leaves the club in a considerably poorer state than he inherited it. That is his real legacy and as far as I am concerned it is good riddance. I am just delighted that he's gone.

Dave the Rave informs the Chairman of the decimal place error in his contract letter.

Extra-marital shenanigans eh! Now there's something else they have in common with the Tories.

I don't know what you mean by "Yogi holding out". Do you mean you think he will quit or that he will be sacked? I'm afraid I find the current situation rather perplexing as it was only in December that Yogi extended his contract. At the time there must have been clarity around the money which is available for players and the role of different people within the club over contract negotiations. Remember, before he signed Yogi had complained about how the club dealt with these matters and therefore there was a particular need for him to be clear on the arrangements before extending his contract. Unless the Board has withheld promised funds or has gone back on their agreed process then Hughes simply needs to shut up and get on with it. If the Board have done the dirty on him then I think he would be a bit more specific in his complaints.

Agreed. Wigan's wage bill has been suggested as being around £10m for this last season and for a smallish squad of about 20. That's an average of around £10k a week with players remaining from the Championship squad earning more and developing players earning less. Mckay probably wasn't on £30k but he would have been paid a lot and Wigan obviously did not get value for money from him. There is no way he can expect that kind of wage elsewhere but it depends on how much he is prepared to drop to play again for a club where he had success before and which put him in the spotlight. Having lost out on Storey, the club may be prepared to pay more for him. I wonder if the Board did not play ball with Hughes over Storey because they would rather see Mckay back. Personally, I would like to see a team with Mckay back in tow with a fit again Doran. Tremarco surging down the left flank, Draper surging through the middle, telling through balls from Tansey and Polworth, and with the option of mixing it up with Fisher as a target man up front we would have the nucleus of a fairly exciting side. But we would need a manager who gets a team to play to it's strengths rather than one who dictates a style of play which constrains the players and bores the fans.

The club statement of 28th April stated the club had made an offer to him and that his decision was imminent. The latest statement makes no mention of him and that is a little bit concerning. I don't know if a deadline has been set for Fon Williams to sign but I suspect he is holding out for a better offer from elsewhere on the back of his inclusion in the Welsh squad. A recent interview with Dean Brill made it pretty clear he wanted to stay but that no offer had been made. We could easily find Brill signs elsewhere and then Fon Williams rejects our offer. With offers apparently still on the table to only Fon Williams and Vigurs (and possibly Devine) there is clearly still a lot of recruitment to be done. On a brighter note, I am delighted with the news about Aaron Doran. He was a big miss for us last season and he can get back to his former level and then push on, he will be a really important player for us. Among all the shambles of other contract issues and the unseemly spat between manager and chairman, this is a bit of good news that deserves more recognition than it has received. Good luck next season, Aaron - you deserve it!

I'd echo those sentiments although in my case I have to congratulate no less than 37 who came above me . It appears I seem to be the Aston Villa of the league - started poorly and it all went downhill from there. Never mind - I'll bounce back and confidently predict a top 30 finish next season. By the way, do I recall this time last year people congratulating Andrew on retaining his title? If so, is it now 3 in a row? Awesome performance if that's the case!

Of course they could have replayed it. Had the match been postponed because of a waterlogged pitch then nobody could seriously suggest that even the SPFL would end the season without some teams having completed their fixtures.

Even if an ineligible player stays on the bench you can't say it made no difference. Had an eligible player been on the bench instead, the circumstances of the game may have led the manager to have made different substitutions to those that were made. You have to have clear and consistent rules and then stick to them.

HT 0-1 FT 3-1 ICT Raven Opp Raven (OG) Time 45 mins

HT 1-0 FT 2-1 ICT Mutombo Opp Imrie Time 26 mins

The awards will only be looking at events on the park and not off it so on that basis I think PerfICT sums it up well. 10 points out of a possible 15 ain't bad. But whilst acknowledging that on a results basis the award is justified, I think it is also fair to say that criticism of Hughes is justified on 4 separate but related issues. Firstly, with the players we have at our disposal we should have done better than we have. This year has seen the top flight as weak as it has ever been. Playing players out of position does not help. Secondly, the style of play has often be very negative and boring to watch. But apart from being boring, it is also ineffective which relates to the first point. When the possession at all costs approach is abandoned and we start being more positive going forward, we play better, we get better results and it is more entertaining. There are at least some signs now that this lesson is being learnt. Thirdly, Hughes has too often been critical of his players or the Board in the media and seems to lack the humility to take responsibility himself for the teams failings. Finally, he has been poor in the retention and recruitment of players. He bemoans the fact that we have lost the likes of Shinnie, Watkins and Mckay but he has failed to replace them with anyone as good despite having a significantly bigger budget than his predecessor. And despite the larger budget, he is having difficulty retaining some players and seems not inclined to sign others that fans clearly want to see retained. Manager of the Month maybe. But that does not mean he's a good manager.

The digs at Yogi really aren't that subtle. It has been disappointing to see the manager having digs at the Board in the media but I would have thought Cameron would be above responding in kind. It really isn't good for the club to see this in print. What I find surprising in all of this is that the Board did not give Yogi permission to speak with Dundee Utd a while ago. Had Utd opted to make an offer to Hughes at that point then compensation could have been negotiated and there would have been plenty cash for a replacement. (Hughes salary + compensation) There now seems less and less chance that Hughes will be seen as a front runner in any job he may be interested in. Hughes will be due compensation if he is sacked and that would hit the player budget. I think Kingsmills has it right when he says Hughes will likely be here a while yet. I rather think Cameron will be regretting his own bloody mindedness in denying Hughes the chance to speak with Utd.

Is this the poll in the "Record"? As normal, the poll is reported incorrectly as actually it was 58% who said they would vote to stay in with a large 19% who were don't knows. And whilst it was published today, it is not actually the most recent poll. Polling for the Record was done on May 2nd but a larger YouGov poll for "The Times" did it's fieldwork between the 2nd and the 4th. This reported 49% in favour of staying, 32% for exit and also 19% don't know. Clearly there is a significant gap between the two sides in Scotland, but the Record is using a bit of journalistic license here in order to sell copy!

If that does happen then I am sure there will be a handful who will bemoan the fact that Scotland had not first voted to leave the UK, but I am sure the overwhelming view will be to simply accept that it was a UK vote. Very few in England will be claiming the result was an outrage with England being forced to stay in the EU against it's will. It is interesting that now the Holyrood elections are out of the way, the SNP have ramped down the suggestion of a 2nd indy referendum following a Brexit. This, of course, has nothing to do with finally accepting that they should honour their earlier statements about it being a once in a generation thing, it is about the fact that polls are showing that even if we did leave the EU, the people of Scotland would still be unlikely to vote for independence. Had they been a bit more honest about this before the election and not muddied the waters with talk of a potential 2nd referendum, then maybe we could have had a bit more focus on addressing Scotland's worsening financial situation.

But not by his mother.

There seems to be a consensus here that:- a) Josh Meekings is a better central defender than right back b) David Raven is a better right back than Josh Meekings c) Josh Meekings is a better central defender than Danny Devine d) Garry Warren looks a better player when playing alongside Meekings rather than Devine and that therefore - e) David Raven should be playing at right back and Josh Meekings should be playing in central defence. Having said that. it has rather slipped under people's radar that we have the 5th best defence in the league. We may not be able to understand the reason for current selection policy but the fact remains that our defensive record is pretty decent this year. I think some people are being a bit harsh on Danny Devine. Sure he has made some errors, but who hasn't? He has also done a lot of good work. He has started in more games than any other outfield player this year and the fact is that we would not have the defensive record we have if he was as much of a bomb scare as some would have us believe. He's an important and valuable member of our squad and it is unfortunate, to say the least, that he is being given the stick that he is in order to support the campaign to keep Dave the Rave. The fact of the matter is that we have very little defensive cover. Williams can play at left back but he is off to Dundee. A back four of Raven, Meekings, Warren and Tremarco would leave only Devine and Horner as cover. Draper and Polworth can play in defence (albeit out of position) and after that we are down to un-tested youngsters. The bottom line is that regardless of where Meekings is better or whether Raven or Devine should start, we really need both of them in the squad. The Board's recent statement indicated that the budget for next season is similar to last season's initial budget which, in turn, was significantly more than any previous manager has had to work with. Unless Hughes has something a bit special up he sleeve, then I cannot for the life of me see any reason why he isn't doing all he can to keep both these players at the club. And remember, Garry Warren is 31 and Devine only 23. Looking to the future, a central pairing of Meekings and Devine could be a very useful central partnership for years to come. The manager clearly wants to keep Devine at the club and I would certainly support that. But we need Raven too. Come on Yogi - it's a no brainer!